South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4
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Desai: the second motion was more a swinging from top to bottom?
H: I would say the second was a lower and more of a horizontal strike
G: when he attacked rudi? H: number one- all of the blows? H yes
H: when he attacked your father? H: initially the second described motion and then to the first described motion
Botha: objects saying he had put to Dr Anthony that his client said it was a rugby tackle type struggle and she said consistent
B: G isnt an expert so its not fair
G: the demonstration put to Anthony was not as detailed as what is being described in court. Desai you are entitled to cross examine
G continues- you say your father came from the front and the second version of motion was used where did it land on your father?
H: I am not sure I just saw that my father lunged at him
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Desai very interactive during this aspect. Very engaged. Eye contact, questions, generally not humouring Botha's objections.
Desai: the second motion was more a swinging from top to bottom?
H: I would say the second was a lower and more of a horizontal strike
G: when he attacked rudi? H: number one- all of the blows? H yes
H: when he attacked your father? H: initially the second described motion and then to the first described motion
Botha: objects saying he had put to Dr Anthony that his client said it was a rugby tackle type struggle and she said consistent
B: G isnt an expert so its not fair
G: the demonstration put to Anthony was not as detailed as what is being described in court. Desai you are entitled to cross examine
G continues- you say your father came from the front and the second version of motion was used where did it land on your father?
H: I am not sure I just saw that my father lunged at him
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Desai very interactive during this aspect. Very engaged. Eye contact, questions, generally not humouring Botha's objections.
PrimeSuspect
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H: I disagree on the basis that I saw my father get hit with the axe- Henri is emotional, given a break to have water
H: attacker was facing the bed and my father approached from left corner of bed and attacker stepped to the side and struck down
H: on my father repeatedly
G; so ur father comes in from your left hand side
G: attacker takes step to the left in the direction of where your father is coming
G: at that point in time of your father coming in and attacker taking step to left, they are now facing each other
H: my father was on the bed
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Desai irritated by Henri's mumbling. Tells him to speak up, drink some water.
H: I disagree on the basis that I saw my father get hit with the axe- Henri is emotional, given a break to have water
H: attacker was facing the bed and my father approached from left corner of bed and attacker stepped to the side and struck down
H: on my father repeatedly
G; so ur father comes in from your left hand side
G: attacker takes step to the left in the direction of where your father is coming
G: at that point in time of your father coming in and attacker taking step to left, they are now facing each other
H: my father was on the bed
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Desai irritated by Henri's mumbling. Tells him to speak up, drink some water.
JudgeJudi
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Wounds on Martin's body - top of shoulders and at neck- are all parallel to shoulder line.
VanBreda says he didn't see where first blow landed. Did he miss? No, after first strike Martin fell down, he maintains.
VanBreda says he saw his father get hit with axe. Pauses. Judge Desai allows him to take a sip of water.
VanBreda demonstrates Martin came in room, attacker took step to left towards him, across each other. Father was on bed.
Martin laid on bed when attacker struck down repeatedly, #VanBreda says. Galloway says from above head and straight down. Body at an angle.
https://twitter.com/TeamNews24
I wish they'd take that axe away from him.
VanBreda says he didn't see where first blow landed. Did he miss? No, after first strike Martin fell down, he maintains.
VanBreda says he saw his father get hit with axe. Pauses. Judge Desai allows him to take a sip of water.
VanBreda demonstrates Martin came in room, attacker took step to left towards him, across each other. Father was on bed.
Martin laid on bed when attacker struck down repeatedly, #VanBreda says. Galloway says from above head and straight down. Body at an angle.
https://twitter.com/TeamNews24
I wish they'd take that axe away from him.
PrimeSuspect
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G: so its not like your father is a bit to the left or right of the attacker they are in line? H: yes
G: the first blow, coming in from the side, horizontally, ends up parallel in line with the shoulder line? H: yes
G: the subsequent blows- the first type is from almost above the head, straight down? H: correct
G: if you execute the blow straight down it would go with the length of the neck not across the neck?
H: his body was lying across in direction the bed naturally took and in front of the attacker
G: so he was no longer face to face with the attacker he was at an angle? H: yes he was at an angle across from the attacker
G: You are still in the corner at this point in time? H; Yes
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Galloway getting really detailed about Martin’s death.Wants to know exactly the angle,where everybody was in relation to attacker.
G: so its not like your father is a bit to the left or right of the attacker they are in line? H: yes
G: the first blow, coming in from the side, horizontally, ends up parallel in line with the shoulder line? H: yes
G: the subsequent blows- the first type is from almost above the head, straight down? H: correct
G: if you execute the blow straight down it would go with the length of the neck not across the neck?
H: his body was lying across in direction the bed naturally took and in front of the attacker
G: so he was no longer face to face with the attacker he was at an angle? H: yes he was at an angle across from the attacker
G: You are still in the corner at this point in time? H; Yes
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Galloway getting really detailed about Martin’s death.Wants to know exactly the angle,where everybody was in relation to attacker.
JudgeJudi
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VanBreda says he was still in the corner of the room as this happened. He presumes attacker was aware of his presence.
Attack on Martin stopped when attacker heard his mother shout, #VanBreda he says.
Galloway says #VanBreda has a deep voice. Screamed loud enough to attract father's attention, but he ignores you and go toward female voice?
#VanBreda says yes. He doesn't recall attacker looking over at him to see who was behind him.
After attacking father, attacker laughed. #VanBreda describes it as a high pitched giggle.
https://twitter.com/TeamNews24
Attack on Martin stopped when attacker heard his mother shout, #VanBreda he says.
Galloway says #VanBreda has a deep voice. Screamed loud enough to attract father's attention, but he ignores you and go toward female voice?
#VanBreda says yes. He doesn't recall attacker looking over at him to see who was behind him.
After attacking father, attacker laughed. #VanBreda describes it as a high pitched giggle.
https://twitter.com/TeamNews24
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G: you shouted and caught attention of your father? Was attacker aware of your presence? H:I presume he was I thought he was
G: what made him stop the attack on your father?H: I think hearing my mother
G: you have a fairly deep voice? H: correct
G: you have screamed to alert your father but he ignores you and leaves the room when he hears a female voice? H: correct
G: he does nothing? did he atleast look over his shoulder to see who is behind him? H: not that I can recall
G: was he laughing when he attacked rudi? Yes after hitting my father it was like he laughed again
H: like he hit rudi again
Desai: what sort of laugh? H: giggling, high pitched Desai: like he was having fun? H I think so yes
(@Tortoise - HvB says 'maniacal' laugh as you suggested he thought an attacker would do
)
G: you shouted and caught attention of your father? Was attacker aware of your presence? H:I presume he was I thought he was
G: what made him stop the attack on your father?H: I think hearing my mother
G: you have a fairly deep voice? H: correct
G: you have screamed to alert your father but he ignores you and leaves the room when he hears a female voice? H: correct
G: he does nothing? did he atleast look over his shoulder to see who is behind him? H: not that I can recall
G: was he laughing when he attacked rudi? Yes after hitting my father it was like he laughed again
H: like he hit rudi again
Desai: what sort of laugh? H: giggling, high pitched Desai: like he was having fun? H I think so yes
(@Tortoise - HvB says 'maniacal' laugh as you suggested he thought an attacker would do
)
JudgeJudi
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What happened to mother and sister outside bedroom? Couldn't see and didn't hear anything, #VanBreda responds.
Galloway says in his statement, #VanBreda said he could hear attack, ventured out of bathroom. Plea explanation says he didn't hear anything.
#VanBreda says either he didn't say that to police or he doesn't remember it now.
You saw attacker moving towards your mother. What did you do? #VanBreda: I didn't do anything, he says.
Why didn't you shout at her to run away, Judge Desai asks. I don't know, #VanBreda responds.
https://twitter.com/TeamNews24
Galloway says in his statement, #VanBreda said he could hear attack, ventured out of bathroom. Plea explanation says he didn't hear anything.
#VanBreda says either he didn't say that to police or he doesn't remember it now.
You saw attacker moving towards your mother. What did you do? #VanBreda: I didn't do anything, he says.
Why didn't you shout at her to run away, Judge Desai asks. I don't know, #VanBreda responds.
https://twitter.com/TeamNews24
PrimeSuspect
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G: interesting u say u dont hear anything? in statement you say after attacker went out u could hear him attack her
G: this was when u ventured out of the bathroom? H: the statement, those are not my words
G: in your plea explanation you say you do not remember hearing? H: its an unanswered question that doesnt make sense
H: I accept that there must have been sounds the same as what I heard with Rudi being attacked but I cant recall hearing
G; its that bit in between regarding whether you heard sounds of your mothers attack changed? What is your explanation for that?
H: I dont recall it now, perhaps I did when I spoke to the police. I don't think they added this on their own
G: is it possible that there are other parts of your statement that you forgot and were not added by the police then? H: its possible
G: U heard ur mom say whats going on, u watch the viscous attacker move toward your mom? what do u do? H: nothing
G: U must have been aware that ur sister marli was also in that direction? Did u atleast try attract her attention warn her
G: interesting u say u dont hear anything? in statement you say after attacker went out u could hear him attack her
G: this was when u ventured out of the bathroom? H: the statement, those are not my words
G: in your plea explanation you say you do not remember hearing? H: its an unanswered question that doesnt make sense
H: I accept that there must have been sounds the same as what I heard with Rudi being attacked but I cant recall hearing
G; its that bit in between regarding whether you heard sounds of your mothers attack changed? What is your explanation for that?
H: I dont recall it now, perhaps I did when I spoke to the police. I don't think they added this on their own
G: is it possible that there are other parts of your statement that you forgot and were not added by the police then? H: its possible
G: U heard ur mom say whats going on, u watch the viscous attacker move toward your mom? what do u do? H: nothing
G: U must have been aware that ur sister marli was also in that direction? Did u atleast try attract her attention warn her
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"You have a deep voice." Galloway differentiates this case from #Oscar Pistorius. No one screams like a woman.
Galloway presses Henri on death of his mother, injuries to Marli. "Couldn't see. Don't recall hearing anything."
Convenient Henri goes blank when it comes to Mother/Marli. Hypothetically Marli could testify otherwise. Now *he* has amnesia.
"You have a deep voice." Galloway differentiates this case from #Oscar Pistorius. No one screams like a woman.
Galloway presses Henri on death of his mother, injuries to Marli. "Couldn't see. Don't recall hearing anything."
Convenient Henri goes blank when it comes to Mother/Marli. Hypothetically Marli could testify otherwise. Now *he* has amnesia.
JudgeJudi
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If I had been thinking clearly I probably would have done these things; if I hadn't been so scared.
When first did you become aware Teresa and Marli attacked? #VanBreda says when he left room and saw them. Didn't register what happened.
Why did attacker come back to your room? #VanBreda has no idea. First thing he did was look at him and laugh, he says.
Initially targeted Rudi, then rest of #VanBreda family as they approached scene, Galloway says. Except you, on same location in same room.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
He didn’t know that his mother and Marli had been attacked until he left the bedroom. He’d have us believe that neither of them uttered a single sound as they were attacked and yet he and Marli had a significant struggle.
When first did you become aware Teresa and Marli attacked? #VanBreda says when he left room and saw them. Didn't register what happened.
Why did attacker come back to your room? #VanBreda has no idea. First thing he did was look at him and laugh, he says.
Initially targeted Rudi, then rest of #VanBreda family as they approached scene, Galloway says. Except you, on same location in same room.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
He didn’t know that his mother and Marli had been attacked until he left the bedroom. He’d have us believe that neither of them uttered a single sound as they were attacked and yet he and Marli had a significant struggle.
PrimeSuspect
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H: no, if I had been thinking clearly I probably would have done that, if I hadnt been so scared and tired
Desai: what about instinctively trying to help?
H: Correct I should have Desai and you put that all down to the state of your fear? H: yes
G: would you agree that the marks in the door frame of your door and on the tile on top stair those could easily have been
G: from the axe being swung around the door when he attacked your mother and marli? H: yes it could have been
G: what made the attacker come back to your room? H: I dont know
G: the first thing he did on entering the room? H: he looked at me and he laughed at me
G: did he approach u immediately upon entering the room? Yes
G: it didnt appear up until that time he was concerned about your presence? h: it seemed so yes
G: from the sequence of events it appears that attackers seemed to initially "go for Rudi" H correct
G: he followed that up by going for each family member as they approached the scene? H yes
G: It's not as if he attacked rudi and then went from there to attack your father and then from there to mother etc H; correct
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Desai: Instinctively you try to help loved ones. You did absolutely nothing. "Correct." So...not loved ones?
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Henri: I didn’t try to warn my sister either. If I had been thinking clearly I probably would have.
H: no, if I had been thinking clearly I probably would have done that, if I hadnt been so scared and tired
Desai: what about instinctively trying to help?
H: Correct I should have Desai and you put that all down to the state of your fear? H: yes
G: would you agree that the marks in the door frame of your door and on the tile on top stair those could easily have been
G: from the axe being swung around the door when he attacked your mother and marli? H: yes it could have been
G: what made the attacker come back to your room? H: I dont know
G: the first thing he did on entering the room? H: he looked at me and he laughed at me
G: did he approach u immediately upon entering the room? Yes
G: it didnt appear up until that time he was concerned about your presence? h: it seemed so yes
G: from the sequence of events it appears that attackers seemed to initially "go for Rudi" H correct
G: he followed that up by going for each family member as they approached the scene? H yes
G: It's not as if he attacked rudi and then went from there to attack your father and then from there to mother etc H; correct
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Desai: Instinctively you try to help loved ones. You did absolutely nothing. "Correct." So...not loved ones?
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Henri: I didn’t try to warn my sister either. If I had been thinking clearly I probably would have.
JudgeJudi
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Galloway points out #VanBreda's build - 1.8m, 93.5kg. Attacker, according to police statement/Henri's description, 1.86m tall; well built.
VanBreda would be the closest match to physical description of attacker, Galloway says. Yes, he agrees.
Sgt Appolis was given a vague description of the attacker by #VanBreda, Galloway says. Only saw eyes, would recognise it if he saw it again.
No one would be able to find that attacker based on discrition. He agrees.
Galloway says its a stereotyped description - unknown black man wearing balaclava and gloves. Yes.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
VanBreda would be the closest match to physical description of attacker, Galloway says. Yes, he agrees.
Sgt Appolis was given a vague description of the attacker by #VanBreda, Galloway says. Only saw eyes, would recognise it if he saw it again.
No one would be able to find that attacker based on discrition. He agrees.
Galloway says its a stereotyped description - unknown black man wearing balaclava and gloves. Yes.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
PrimeSuspect
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G: so he didnt have to go find or approach anybody after Rudi but he ignores you and then approaches u after the attacks on others
H: He asked me his height I said an inch taller than me and gave him my measurements so he added 2cm
H: he then asked if he was skinny or fat etc I said he was muscular
G: so its not Benekes description it is your description that lead to the statement reading 1.86m and well built? H correct
G: it was put to dempers that you are a physically strong person and was at the time? H yes G: physically active? H correct
G: so not like you are a sickly small built person? H: no
G: Marli was 16 year old girl at the time, Rudi, 1.7m tall and 80kg in weight? H: maybe a bit taller?
G: he was shorter than you? H: correct [14 cms shorter]
H: Rudi was taller than dad [so Martin shorter than 1.7m]
H: my dad was recovering from successfully removing bowel cancer - in October 2014
H: but my dad was physically strong and unexpectedly beat rudi and I in a cycling sprint
G: but on his appearance one wouldnt judge him to be strong? H correct
G: ur mother, female and only 1.65m tall ? H correct
G: a very vague description was given of these attacks in your statement
G: he was well built strong, 18,6m tall, dark jeans dark top and mask on - this is a vague description
H: it was as accurate as I can be
G: it was put to the officer that nobody could trace that attacker based on your description? H: I would agree
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Interesting. Henri bigger than older brother+father. Father had bowel cancer in 2014. Could still "unexpectedly" outsprint Henri.
G: so he didnt have to go find or approach anybody after Rudi but he ignores you and then approaches u after the attacks on others
H: He asked me his height I said an inch taller than me and gave him my measurements so he added 2cm
H: he then asked if he was skinny or fat etc I said he was muscular
G: so its not Benekes description it is your description that lead to the statement reading 1.86m and well built? H correct
G: it was put to dempers that you are a physically strong person and was at the time? H yes G: physically active? H correct
G: so not like you are a sickly small built person? H: no
G: Marli was 16 year old girl at the time, Rudi, 1.7m tall and 80kg in weight? H: maybe a bit taller?
G: he was shorter than you? H: correct [14 cms shorter]
H: Rudi was taller than dad [so Martin shorter than 1.7m]
H: my dad was recovering from successfully removing bowel cancer - in October 2014
H: but my dad was physically strong and unexpectedly beat rudi and I in a cycling sprint
G: but on his appearance one wouldnt judge him to be strong? H correct
G: ur mother, female and only 1.65m tall ? H correct
G: a very vague description was given of these attacks in your statement
G: he was well built strong, 18,6m tall, dark jeans dark top and mask on - this is a vague description
H: it was as accurate as I can be
G: it was put to the officer that nobody could trace that attacker based on your description? H: I would agree
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Interesting. Henri bigger than older brother+father. Father had bowel cancer in 2014. Could still "unexpectedly" outsprint Henri.
PrimeSuspect
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G: the description you gave is a very stereotype description? Boils down to unknown black man in balaclava and gloves
H: yes thats correct
G: how did you think he was black? H: based on the contrast of his eyes and the skin around it, the mask holes frayed
H: overseas the word coloured is not used, you only say black or white
H: perhaps I should have rather side non white
G: why did you say you cannot confirm? H: I did say that but Beneke would not accept that answer
H: I said to the police to Adams after the ambulance, I said I only seen one and I think that he was black but wasnt sure
H: and I certainly made it clear to Beneke that I was not certain
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
There seems to be another Judge present in the Henri #vanBreda trial!!!
Rumour has it that they brought him in to think outside the box..
Galloway puts it to Henri: Why did you say the attacker was a black person if you couldn’t see enough of him to say for sure??
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Very stark contrast between whites of intruders eyes and black skin. Now Henri wiggles the race card. Could also be coloured.
G: the description you gave is a very stereotype description? Boils down to unknown black man in balaclava and gloves
H: yes thats correct
G: how did you think he was black? H: based on the contrast of his eyes and the skin around it, the mask holes frayed
H: overseas the word coloured is not used, you only say black or white
H: perhaps I should have rather side non white
G: why did you say you cannot confirm? H: I did say that but Beneke would not accept that answer
H: I said to the police to Adams after the ambulance, I said I only seen one and I think that he was black but wasnt sure
H: and I certainly made it clear to Beneke that I was not certain
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
There seems to be another Judge present in the Henri #vanBreda trial!!!
Rumour has it that they brought him in to think outside the box..
Galloway puts it to Henri: Why did you say the attacker was a black person if you couldn’t see enough of him to say for sure??
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Very stark contrast between whites of intruders eyes and black skin. Now Henri wiggles the race card. Could also be coloured.
JudgeJudi
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VanBreda noted white of the man's eyes contrasted to colour of his skin. He said he was unsure, Benecke not happy with ambiguous answers.
VanBreda says he told officers he saw one attacker and thought he was black. He says he made it clear he was not sure.
VanBreda heard 2 different people speaking in harsh tones in house. If able to identify, would be by voice and eyes.
VanBreda says he still hears the attacker's giggling in his nightmares.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
VanBreda says he told officers he saw one attacker and thought he was black. He says he made it clear he was not sure.
VanBreda heard 2 different people speaking in harsh tones in house. If able to identify, would be by voice and eyes.
VanBreda says he still hears the attacker's giggling in his nightmares.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
JudgeJudi
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Specific description of mask. Why say homemade, Galloway asks? Frayed edges of eye holes, #VanBreda says. Opening for mouth. Not a stocking.
Adjourn for lunch.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
Adjourn for lunch.
[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]
PrimeSuspect
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G: during your evidence the only reference I find to communication between you and attacker was the times he laughed?
H: If that is communication, yes
Desai: not a laugh it was a giggle
G: at no time were any words communicated to you? H correct
H: heard them communicate with each other I didnt hear exact words, harsh tone likely afrikaans could have been english I suppose
H: both voices harsh tone, similar type tone
H: but discernibly two different types of voices
G: so u could discern two voices but are of the opinion that Opt Hof would not be able to discern between mens voices & movie
G retracts the question as inappropriate
H: police asked me how I would be able to identify them and two things were eyes and voice I thought of
G: what in the voice would make you think you could recognise the voice?
H: I still hear the voice and the giggling in my nightmares
Desai: anything distinctive about the voice? H; not that I can describe
H: it looked like thick material, like frayed edges of wool
G: so it wasnt something that fits snuggly over his face? H: no
Court adjourns for lunch, back at 14h15
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Henri makes big schpiel about how Aussies don't refer to "coloured". But Henri, you're not Australian, weren't living in Oz!
G: during your evidence the only reference I find to communication between you and attacker was the times he laughed?
H: If that is communication, yes
Desai: not a laugh it was a giggle
G: at no time were any words communicated to you? H correct
H: heard them communicate with each other I didnt hear exact words, harsh tone likely afrikaans could have been english I suppose
H: both voices harsh tone, similar type tone
H: but discernibly two different types of voices
G: so u could discern two voices but are of the opinion that Opt Hof would not be able to discern between mens voices & movie
G retracts the question as inappropriate
H: police asked me how I would be able to identify them and two things were eyes and voice I thought of
G: what in the voice would make you think you could recognise the voice?
H: I still hear the voice and the giggling in my nightmares
Desai: anything distinctive about the voice? H; not that I can describe
H: it looked like thick material, like frayed edges of wool
G: so it wasnt something that fits snuggly over his face? H: no
Court adjourns for lunch, back at 14h15
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Henri makes big schpiel about how Aussies don't refer to "coloured". But Henri, you're not Australian, weren't living in Oz!
PrimeSuspect
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View attachment 125728
The fake axe and a set of tissues in the box where Henri van Breda is testifying.
View attachment 125728
The fake axe and a set of tissues in the box where Henri van Breda is testifying.
Interested Bystander
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- Joined
- Jun 4, 2013
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- 345
Thank you for the tweets everyone. Just catching up. Am I right in thinking they are taking 3 hours for lunch? Why?
I love that Desai keeps telling B to shut up.
Seems as though H is constantly prevaricating and has no answers to some of the pertinent questions such as where was Rudi's computer, why he did not mention the woman whom he asked for help, in which direction was Martin hit, whether or not he heard his mother being attacked. Did he not say earlier that he heard his mother ask in Afrikaans "what is going on" and yet did not hear either she or Marli being attacked - IMO codswallop.
I love that Desai keeps telling B to shut up
.Seems as though H is constantly prevaricating and has no answers to some of the pertinent questions such as where was Rudi's computer, why he did not mention the woman whom he asked for help, in which direction was Martin hit, whether or not he heard his mother being attacked. Did he not say earlier that he heard his mother ask in Afrikaans "what is going on" and yet did not hear either she or Marli being attacked - IMO codswallop.
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