South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

[JudgeJudi]

He'd be able to recognise a person he was in a life and death struggle with by his eyes and laugh? What utter rot. His entire focus would have been on the axe in the hand of the intruder - the weapon that could kill him. It would be possible if the guy had one blue and one brown eye, or maybe just one eye, and by a laugh? Give me a break. Now he's trying to change it to the voice/s heard downstairs.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thank you for the tweets everyone. Just catching up. Am I right in thinking they are taking 3 hours for lunch? Why?

I love that Desai keeps telling B to shut up .

Seems as though H is constantly prevaricating and has no answers to some of the pertinent questions such as where was Rudi's computer, why he did not mention the woman whom he asked for help, in which direction was Martin hit, whether or not he heard his mother being attacked. Did he not say earlier that he heard his mother ask in Afrikaans "what is going on" and yet did not hear either she or Marli being attacked - IMO codswallop.

They'll return at 2:00.

Here's your SA clock IB.

https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/south-africa

 

[Interested Bystander]

LOL JJ. I know they are two hours on. I am misreading the timing on the forum posts as SA time and it is UK time. Must have been half asleep due to no proper sleep last night.

I have been trying to listen to the recording but the sound is dreadful, even using earphones.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

He'd be able to recognise a person he was in a life and death struggle with by his eyes and laugh? What utter rot. His entire focus would have been on the axe in the hand of the intruder - the weapon that could kill him. It would be possible if the guy had one blue and one brown eye, or maybe just one eye, and by a laugh? Give me a break. Now he's trying to change it to the voice/s heard downstairs.

It's just so absurd JJ!

Some observations -

Galloway has improved after the break, more determined, she's got a plan and is directing HvB. It's a great strategy too having him demonstrate the 'intruders' style of attack on Martin and Rudi, also, letting him ramble on extensively how the attacker swung the axe, where the attacker stood and changed his footing, how he moved onto the mother and sister while completely ignoring HvB standing in the same room with lights on, all very precise like he's replaced himself with the 'intruder' as we've discussed before. He will slip up, I think, if Galloway keeps going over everything, I even imagined he might slip and say 'I' instead of 'he or they'.

Also, Botha warning the Judge of HvB's stutter and so forth, HvB is so articulate, he's outdoing both advocates but I think mainly because English is his first language, his pronunciation is excellent, very upper crust. I notice he stutters only slightly when he's nervous about the question or about to tell a lie, I wonder. :thinking:

 

[Fluffykins]

I was really surprised last night to learn that HvB would be testifying. I would have thought Botha would have put it to him that he'd be better off keeping his silence rather than risking giving himself away.

I'm now wondering if there's more than a little Gerard Baden Clay to Henri. As in, so much conceit, so much self belief, that he believes his own testimony is vital to his defence because he thinks he'll do a better job of defending himself than his own counsel. If that's the case ... well, that same tactic backfired on Gerard; and I don't see as how Henri is doing anything to help his own case here.

 

[JudgeJudi]

If you're having audio problems, try this one. The sound is perfect. Oh good grief. The live stream has just stopped!!!!! Sound is back.
[video=youtube;HI0ocY0hZAI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0ocY0hZAI[/video]

 

[Fluffykins]

LOL JJ. I know they are two hours on. I am misreading the timing on the forum posts as SA time and it is UK time. Must have been half asleep due to no proper sleep last night.

I have been trying to listen to the recording but the sound is dreadful, even using earphones.

Oy, IB, that's terrible! I hope you get a decent night's sleep tonight!

Re BBM - I gave up listening ages ago. I wear a hearing aid and if someone's speaking with their back to me, or it's a bad phone connection, I really struggle. This courtroom sound is just impossible.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm not getting sound on YouTube from either News24 or eNCA. eNCA was perfect before lunch. Live streaming has restarted on the above link and it's perfect.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

We are back Galloway asks Henri again about the axe

H: I have never seen that axe but I cant dispute Precious' version about seeing an axe in the pantry

H: we never used the axe for chopping wood

G: but the basket in the house had smaller pieces of wood than the ones that were stacked outside

H: there were two different types of wood one for the braai and one for the heat inside

G: the knife u say appears similar to the one from your kitchen H: yes

 

[JudgeJudi]

Court resumes. #VanBreda doesn't recall seeing axe in his house. Won't dispute domestic worker's evidence of seeing it in pantry.

VanBreda says in his time at 12 Goske Street, they bought smaller pieces of wood. Exhibit 2 resembles their kitchen knife.

Galloway says outside house were stacked up, bigger pieces of wood. Inside smaller ones in basket used for braaiing?

Galloway says interesting to note that drawer where knife was kept was only drawer open in kitchen.

Person went to the one drawer where cutlery is kept, Galloway says.
Adv Botha objects, says two drawers open.

One drawer open wider than the other - only cabinetry disturbed in kitchen, Galloway says. Correct, #VanBreda says.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: Precious pointed out the drawer it came from? H: yes I agree

G: in that photo that specific drawer is the only element of the kitchen cabinet which is open?

G: so whoever came into the house to arm themselves chose that one drawer where the knife was

B: objects the photo shows that two drawers were slightly open and they took touch DNA on both drawers

G: the two drawers are on top of each other

G: shows photos which have an extended view of the kitchen-the only 2 parts of the cabinets disturbed 1 with the knife other below H: correct

G: do u agree that the axe looks fairly new? H: I havent had a detailed look at it- would u like to? H: no *shaking head

G: if u regard that both the axe and the knife are from the house it implies logically that whoever approached that night

G: came unarmed or armed inadequately? H: thats logical

H: Opportunity? vs a Need?


https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Axe never used, never seen. So was it like a display ornament kinda like a museum piece?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks JJ, the sound on that link is good.

Now I can hear him - what an arrogant, cocksure young man he is. He seems almost disdainful of the court.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Appears both from your house; implies that whoever approached house came either unarmed or armed inadequately. Logical, #VanBreda replies.

The alternative is that axe and knife doesn't come from the house. Exposes them to possibly being traced, Galloway says. #VanBreda agrees.

One person who attacks your family arms himself on the scene. You don't find that strange? I do, #VanBreda agrees.

What is your view on second axe on scene that night? Is it likely? "I don't know. I only saw one attacker, one axe."

Did you see another axe? No, #VanBreda says.

Sgt Appolis testified that no other axe was found in the house. #VanBreda accepts that, says he agrees.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: so they were in actual fact ill prepared? H: it would seem so

G: the alternative is that if suggested that the axe or knife did not come from inside the house why leave it in the house and risk being traced? H: correct

G: why the one person that u saw in the house upstairs was also 1 person armed with weaponry from within the house?

H: thats correct - I do find that strange

G: also suggestion made that there might have been a 2nd axe on the scene? Do u think that is plausible?

H: I do think that it is plausible

B objects this is a speculative answer it will not assist your lordship and will not take the matter further

Desai- objection noted, defence introduced the possibility of second axe u are perfectly at liberty to question on this

Desai based on the fact that there is no evidence of a second axe please proceed

H: It is likely - I only saw one axe so the other attacker may have had an axe



https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Desai: do you want to look at the axe (to verify it was quite new)? "No." Just no. Often answers in this blunt offhand manner.

Botha jumps up to moan about the trial being unnecessarily prolonged. Ag please.

 

[JudgeJudi]

No evidence physically of a second axe on the scene. Correct, #VanBreda replies.

Galloway asks for adjournment to tomorrow to deal with incident between #VanBreda and attacker. Desai allows. Court resumes at 10:00.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: did u see another axe? H: No only one G: u didnt even know that came from your house? H: correct

G: Apollo testified that only one axe was found in the house? Do u agree? H: yes I agree with that

G: no evidence physically or what you saw that can categorically tell the court that there is evidence of a 2nd axe on scene

H: agrees on the point re second axe

Adv Galloway asks if we can adjourn for the day before she goes onto the next point Judge Desai adjourns

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/ajnarsee

G: is it your evidence that the axe doesn't belong to your house? H: don't recall the axe, but not in a position to dispute

H: knife resembles the kitchen knife we had

H: has I been part of setting up the pantry...in my time we never used the axe. We bought our wood in smaller pieces

G: asks about wood in house stacked up, then bigger pieces outside..H: it's the same pieces

H: there are two different types of wood,one for braai and one for heat

G: domestic worker pointed out the draw where the knife was kept, do you agree? H: Yes

G: kitchen draw with knife only one kept open. Botha objects

G: now showing pictures d kitchen and open draws, only cabinets disturbed in the scene

G: would you agree that the axe is new in appearance ? H: I haven't had a close look at it

J Desai asks if Henri #vanbreda wants to have a closer look at the axe, he says no.

Both weapons are from the house, you would agree that they came unarmed/ or inadequately armed ?

G: that would seem strange? H: he it seems so

G: is it possible that there was a second axe in the scene.
H: it's plausible

Botha objects saying it calls for speculation

But Judge Desai says Galloway can question because the defence intro the idea of another axe

H: declines to comment but says I only saw one axe, not another

Galloway asks for adjournment says she wants to deal with a new aspect fresh tomorrow. Court adjourns - 10 am

 

[Fluffykins]

RSBM

https://twitter.com/Traceyams


B objects this is a speculative answer it will not assist your lordship and will not take the matter further

Desai- objection noted, defence introduced the possibility of second axe u are perfectly at liberty to question on this

Desai based on the fact that there is no evidence of a second axe please proceed


Desai: do you want to look at the axe (to verify it was quite new)? "No." Just no. Often answers in this blunt offhand manner.

Botha jumps up to moan about the trial being unnecessarily prolonged. Ag please.

LOL, it is good to be finally getting a :giggle: or two here!

Good to see Desai so totally on the ball, and even better to see Botha facing a "gotcha" moment of his own making! :dance:

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM



LOL, it is good to be finally getting a :giggle: or two here!

Good to see Desai so totally on the ball, and even better to see Botha facing a "gotcha" moment of his own making! :dance:

That was an amazing moment if ever there was one. The defence raised the possibility of there being a second axe but then object when Galloway mentions it. Hilarious. Just shows the lengths Botha is prepared to go to in order to get his murderous client off.

 

[Fluffykins]

That was an amazing moment if ever there was one. The defence raised the possibility of there being a second axe but then object when Galloway mentions it. Hilarious. Just shows the lengths Botha is prepared to go to in order to get his murderous client off.

Yes indeed, JJ, and let's dare hope there's more of the same in store tomorrow. I don't at all mind Galloway asking for an early adjournment to prepare for a new aspect tomorrow - more power to her! Seems to me she has scored some important points today, and I wonder what more she's got up her sleeve? Can't wait to find out! :biggrin: