South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

[Bohemian]

One last tweet, and it's good.

So to summarise another pointless day in court: when Galloway asked Butler how he knew Van Breda had lain still on the steps for so long‚ Butler replied: “Because he told me.”

https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

:drumroll: :floorlaugh:

 

[Fluffykins]

I don't get too much of an opportunity to take everything in when posting the tweets, but I have an overriding impression that Desai isn't buying Butler's facts/theories. Does anyone else think the same?

I don't know that I can really comment because I'm just going by the tweets because the sound isn't good enough for me to actually hear it ... but I thought it was pretty telling when Judge Desai declined to hear Dr. Butler's elaborations:

Dr B: there ar a number of factors and I am happy to run through them
Desai: no no thank you!

Of course he didn't want to hear more useless waffle! It's gone on far too long and he has flat out said he wants to get it over with. I'd like to think he made up his mind long ago on the basis of strong evidence like the self inflicted wounds, the footprint evidence, blood spatter evidence etc, and that none of this latest farfetched supposition will make any difference to his decision.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I agree JJ. He seems to be unimpressed by and slightly antagonistic towards Dr B but he will have a big problem refuting the diagnosis. Wetting his pants is HvB's only link to a possible seizure. Surely if he wet his pants there would have been urine on the stairs although maybe nobody thought to look for it. If he was a bedwetter it could be there might have been evidence of this in his bedroom .

IB, his sleep shorts only had urine on the front, and I don't remember if he ever stated the position he was in when he regained consciousness.

Having said that, I don't believe he was ever unconscious.

I'm sure Danielle would be most unimpressed if he was a bedwetter.

 

[Fluffykins]

One last tweet, and it's good.

So to summarise another pointless day in court: when Galloway asked Butler how he knew Van Breda had lain still on the steps for so long‚ Butler replied: “Because he told me.”

https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

LOL! :hilarious:

 

[Interested Bystander]

I agree with that JJ. He is going out of his way to absolve HvB without any reference to the enormity of the crime.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Oh good grief. I said Butler was a neurosurgeon. You can see where my mind has been. He's a neurologist. Sorry.

 

[Bohemian]

Thanks again for the tweets and livestream link JJ x

Goodnight (early morning!) from Oz fftobed:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thanks again for the tweets and livestream link JJ x

Goodnight (early morning!) from Oz fftobed:

One of the joys of being retired ... you can sleep in as long as you like.

I'm off to :bed: See you all tomorrow.

 

[Tortoise]

Botha said he wishes to call one further witness, a psychologist. He wants her report to be entered into court. He says they asked her 2 questions and asked for answers in writing.

Aha, the 2 questions I referred to in #1083 were for the psychologist. It will be interesting to hear how long it takes her to answer.

Desai objected to the idea of a psychologist who must tell the court how to evaluate the witness.

Did Botha say this today? I only ask because yesterday I recall reading that Botha said Dr Butler would be their final witness.

 

[Tortoise]

Oh gosh, I was going to read the updates but I've changed my mind after reading a page of bullcrap from Butler. Please just get this nonsense over with, I'm getting Pistoriusitis all over again, when he had all those experts defending his behaviour.

Where's the green bucket.

 

[Tortoise]

That word glipsie is making me feel revulsion.

:sick:

:floorlaugh: Now I'm laughing at myself because I'm so pissed about everything to do with this defence. I'll come back when I'm not so grumpy.

 

[L2L]

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...-aim-at-neurologist-testifying-for-van-breda/

When Galloway asked DrB how he knew HvB had lain on the stairs for so long, Butler replied, "Because he told me."

:floorlaugh:

 

[Hag]

Many thanks JudgeJudi for all that you do here. As an aside, from being annoyed with all the tea breaks in SA trials (OP in particular), I now use them to my advantage, prepping dinner, bringing in the washing etc and tell my husband dinner will be at an appropriate time according to how the trial is going. Haha. I can’t tell anyone else this, they wouldn’t understand!!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Did Botha say this today? I only ask because yesterday I recall reading that Botha said Dr Butler would be their final witness.

Botha said he wanted to call a psychologist on 7 November.

What Botha says and what he does is always an issue, e.g. HvB won't take the stand, might take the stand if he's the last witness, will take the stand as the last witness - but wait - he now wants to call a neurologist and a psychologist.

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/vanbreda?lang=en

Interesting reading some of these tweets that reflect much the same views most of us hold.

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/henri-van-breda-seizure-outcome/

Will Henri's Seizure, Real or Staged, Affect the Trial Outcome?

Interesting, worth a read by Tracey Ann Stewart (Traceyams on Twitter)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Many thanks JudgeJudi for all that you do here. As an aside, from being annoyed with all the tea breaks in SA trials (OP in particular), I now use them to my advantage, prepping dinner, bringing in the washing etc and tell my husband dinner will be at an appropriate time according to how the trial is going. Haha. I can’t tell anyone else this, they wouldn’t understand!!

My husband is a very caring soul and is trying to make life easier for me with my current situation. Because walking up and down the stairs is difficult, he's not only cooking dinner for me but asks me each night, "What time does your trial start?" and brings my dinner upstairs 15 minutes beforehand and also for our little doggie who is always by my side.

As an aside, he detests trials but knows the entire back story of those I'm following and all major developments.

:blowkiss: to all our long suffering partners who have to put up with us

 

[Bohemian]

How many seizures did Dr Butler say were observed in HvB during the 24 hour clinical observation period? Was it one only? Is there evidence of HvB having another seizure in separate 24 hour clinical observation period since that time?

 

[JudgeJudi]

The day before yesterday Dr Butler said it is very rare to see people malingering in private practice, more common in public hospitals where people want to benefit from social grants. Researched malingering and amnesia, literature doesn't indicate it being used post event.

Really!!!!! HvB isn’t after a social grants, he’s trying to escape a life sentence. That’s an extremely powerful reason to be a malingerer. The timing of this alleged seizure is just so unbelievable. Is it possible, yes, but is it probable ... not to me.

As far as wetting his pants goes, who's to say when this happened. When he saw the butchered bodies of his family, that alone could have caused him to wet himself. The photos of him in the ambulance didn't show any dark areas on his shorts. Perhaps by that time they were merely damp.

 

[JudgeJudi]

“You are almost usurping my duties in this court‚” a frustrated Judge Siraj Desai told a defence witness. Desai repeatedly questioned whether the evidence on which Butler’s testimony was based could be objectively proven. He emphasised the fact that it was all based on what the accused himself had told the doctor‚ and not on objective evidence.

Galloway said the alleged amnesia was based purely on hearsay from the accused‚ that wetting one’s pants could easily happen in a murderous situation‚ and that the expression of the accused in the ambulance could easily be deliberate as he knew pictures were being taken of him. She also pointed out that a fit leaves no physical scars and it was thus impossible to say this is what happened to Van Breda that night in January 2015.

When Galloway asked Butler how he knew Van Breda had lain still on the steps for so long‚ Butler replied, “Because he told me.”

She also pointed out that although he had now been diagnosed with juvenile myoclonic epilepsy‚ there was no clinical history of seizures. “You are not only the first to make the diagnosis but to record the history of any related symptoms‚” said Galloway.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...-aim-at-neurologist-testifying-for-van-breda/