South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

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Interested Bystander said:
I think good old detective work was much valued at one point but I suspect a lot of mistakes were made. In a case such as this I am sure HvB would have been charged and found guilty in the first year using good 'old fashioned' methods. It is so blinking obvious, even to a clown like me, that he is guilty. However, DNA has made it possible to apprehend felons who leave no other trace. These days it seems one can possibly get off on a technicality. I hope this does not happen here.
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Yes, that's what worries me, IB. All this evidence about artefact peaks and wooden benches and alleles is just so much :dunno: to me, and I don't get how it can be important alongside of the fact of no unknown footprints in the house, Henri's obviously self-inflicted little knife injuries and so on.
How does this nitpicking technical stuff even matter?? :gaah:
 
Thank you for all the updates, I've been reading but I'm at work with tons of VAT returns to complete so can't join in!
 
JudgeJudi said:
Talk about smoke and mirrors on the part of the Defence. This is fantastic for the State.
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Another YIPPEE.
I am just catching up, but this looks great.
What next.!!! Do Defense pack up their bags now.
Can't wait........
 
PrimeSuspect said:
:trainwreck:
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Yep Prime certainly train wreck.
I better read to end of info, before get too happy.
Guess you all have finished wine already, overcome with joy, as way things proceeding now with this horrid trial!!!!!!

Love to see pics of you all, under the table, filled with happiness.
 
tmar said:
Yep Prime certainly train wreck.
I better read to end of info, before get too happy.
Guess you all have finished wine already, overcome with joy, as way things proceeding now with this horrid trial!!!!!!

Love to see pics of you all, under the table, filled with happiness.
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It's going well tmar, imo. Olckers is dragging out her time in the witness box but overall, Galloway is doing a fine job and Judge Desai is marvelous, he's on the ball, asking questions, has a sense of humour but still manages to get his point across.
Thanks for your upbeat comments, I always look forward to them. :)
 
LouP1209 said:
Thank you for all the updates, I've been reading but I'm at work with tons of VAT returns to complete so can't join in!
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Believe me Lou, you haven't missed a thing. Same old, same old. And it will continue tomorrow.
 
Thank you for all the updates. Just got in and as I thought it is all over for the day. I wonder what tomorrow will bring? I am off to make sense (or not) of what has happened.
 
So, a short day then, again.

I just read this report, it gives a good feel for what is going on. https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...-ways-prosecutor-tells-van-bredas-dna-expert/

Although I did get the impression yesterday that despite being very annoying and labouring every answer, Olckers might be making a few points that Desai will have to look very closely at to avoid an appeal succeeding on factual grounds. He would be better IMO to accept some of her points and say they do not change his opinion having regard to the whole weight of the evidence.

Now at least I don't have a whole day's evidence to watch this evening. Phew. But I can't not watch the drama. Galloway is gold.
 
Interesting article, Tortoise, thank you.

Desai and Galloway have got Olckers "measure" and they are doing very well IMO. Olckers is obfuscating and not providing any opinions other than almost everything fails to fit the procedures (SOPS) which she has probably had a hand in devising herself (I am guessing here).

The fact that she would not give an opinion as to whether whoever was not wearing protective shoe covering would/could have definitely caused the sample being analysed to be contaminated was a prime example. She really is a difficult witness and I am not surprised that Galloway and Desai shows signs of irritation when questioning her. Galloway is getting quite riled with Olckers at times. I am surprised HvB hasn't made another complaint. Maybe he has been advised, for his own sake, not to interfere in future.

Hopefully, this witness will finish early tomorrow and we might get someone more interesting though I think it is highly likely B and C won't have organised anyone even though we know there are two lay witnesses waiting to be heard (I think the DC would probably like to close with these, especially if they are going to tell us what a perfect young man HvB is). Reggie Perumal is tied up with Rhode case but I am unsure if he is actually in court. Does that leave only the Neurologist?

I have wondered whether the extra peak on the DNA sample (scraping from under his nails) could have been from his girlfriend (the one who says she was only a friend) as they were known to have spent time together on the beach the afternoon before the murders.
 
I must have missed that bit about his nail scrapings. I thought they were talking about the wooden bench outside HvB's bedroom. Either way, there can be a myriad of explanations that don't include an intruder or two, who could not have left the scene without leaving a detectable trail and without being picked up coming or going on cctv. It's preposterous that they are arguing about a blip.
 
The recording is too jumpy to follow.

But I picked up this great point Galloway made -

"Bearing in mind that the FSL is a forensic laboratory and they work with forensic samples, it's not a paternity lab or a laboratory that does research where they have perfect samples, I have not heard of a criminal who would try and leave as much DNA or as much evidence on the scene where they would make sure that there would be an optimal sample available. In this particular instance for example if one takes your argument to heart it would mean that some 40 of the 151 samples that you analysed would fall away completely."

I'll be fascinated to see how Desai deals with it in his final evaluation.
 
Henri also sat in the ambulance. I expect that they are cleaned but I doubt that they are sterile surroundings.
 
When Olckers complained that one woman on the scene during evidence collection had not been in protective shoes‚ which was against standard operating procedures‚ Desai asked her: “To what extent would that compromise the results?”

I suspect that Olckers will tell us today that the earth is flat and the DNA samples have been contaminated by dust particles falling from space. Galloway will inform her that the earth is in fact round as we have seen images from space satellites. Olckers will say that you can’t believe those images as SOPS weren’t followed inside the space capsule and that the astronauts brought in contaminated material when they walked in space and didn't change into protective shoe coverings. These particles fell to earth and found their way into the forensic laboratory. She’s read scientific journals which prove that planet earth is definitely flat and that the alleles from space don’t have high enough peaks … or words to that effect.
 
Hi Everyone :wave: Enjoy!

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