South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[Laurence]

But the boy had already invited her to the dance, I didn't see any reports that there were any objections to that.

No objections to him going with her, but they were on such a tear of tormenting her that this big dance might make a "goal" for them to drive her from. Just because it was coming up.

Basically I'm just speculating as to why the sudden surge in abuse towards her.

 

[Cyan]

Paraphrased : I explain my situation with being bullied, say that there were alternatives.

A: How the *advertiser censored** does that compare?
Ds: Seriously who cares. I bet everyone hated you for a reason.
Ds: I think the fact that ppl hated you for 5 yrs says enough.

And some people want to point fingers only at the kids who taunted her and at parents... These people are strangers and this is how I was treated.

 

[AndyRyan]

That sounds kind of out there, especially the part where the author says she was pressured into sex to stop the bullying...

I don't buy some random person on the 'net having info like that and it not spreading like crazy.

It was only posted about 20 mins ago, it is a pretty provocative "report", I don't think it will stay there long.

 

[Cyan]

But the boy had already invited her to the dance, I didn't see any reports that there were any objections to that.

If I were being tormented on a level that drove me to such dark despair, I certainly wouldn't want to voluntarily put myself in a place and position to be around my tormentors no matter how desperately I had wanted to make other friends and to enjoy myself.

Just a thought.

 

[thebear14]

Could it be that they were intent on keeping her from going to that dance? There was that supposed "friend" of Phoebe's that made an insult and threat ~4 days before. Wasn't that threat about how Phoebe would get it if she tried to get with her man at the dance (I may have managed what I am remembering badly).

It just struck me that an increase in intensity like this may have been aimed at scaring her away from the dance.

yes I've thought that too, although apparently she had a date for the dance and at this point most likely wanted absolutely nothing to do with either of those boys but I guess try telling that to those girls I imagine if she did go to that dance it would have ended up being a Big Deal and she most likely would have been harassed there as well.

Probably also has to do with the fling with Austin coming out as well., as Paladine pointed out. I guess if that happened toward the middle/end of December the girls might have just found out about it when they got back to school and that's what caused the overbearing harassment.

ugh...rage

 

[jjenny]

No objections to him going with her, but they were on such a tear of tormenting her that this big dance might make a "goal" for them to drive her from. Just because it was coming up.

Basically I'm just speculating as to why the sudden surge in abuse towards her.

You think they were hoping she would not show up at the dance?

 

[jjenny]

If I were being tormented on a level that drove me to such dark despair, I certainly wouldn't want to voluntarily put myself in a place and position to be around my tormentors no matter how desperately I had wanted to make other friends and to enjoy myself.

Just a thought.

That's the thing, it was reported she had already gotten a dress to go to this dance and discussed arrangements for transportation so this suicide does not sound like something planned for some time before it happened.

 

[Laurence]

You think they were hoping she would not show up at the dance?

It was just an idle thought in regards to why it suddenly got so much worse. The dance was coming up, so it made a simple target for them to shoot for. Remembering that tweet/post making a threat about her at the dance is what triggered it.

 

[Cyan]

That's the thing, it was reported she had already gotten a dress to go to this dance and discussed arrangements for transportation so this suicide does not sound like something planned for some time before it happened.

I agree, but I still don't know many people who would WANT to go some place that they knew their tormentors would be. She may have just wanted to go to enjoy herself, but it honestly doesn't make a lot of sense. She had the opportunity to avoid them and was possibly planning to go somewhere they were most likely going to be.

 

[AndyRyan]

You think they were hoping she would not show up at the dance?

It makes sense if they were jealous of her, they probably wouldn't like to see her there especially at an occasion where she would be dressed up and looking even prettier than usual just in case she caught any of their "mens" eyes, they must have felt threatened by her on that level. Had she been a less attractive girl they may not have felt the need to keep it going for so long. JMO(just found out what that means so using it all the time now)

 

[Laurence]

yes I've thought that too, although apparently she had a date for the dance and at this point most likely wanted absolutely nothing to do with either of those boys but I guess try telling that to those girls I imagine if she did go to that dance it would have ended up being a Big Deal and she most likely would have been harassed there as well.

Probably also has to do with the fling with Austin coming out as well., as Paladine pointed out. I guess if that happened toward the middle/end of December the girls might have just found out about it when they got back to school and that's what caused the overbearing harassment.

ugh...rage

Like I mentioned in another reply just now, it was an idle thought that the dance make a nice target for torturing her. If she doesn't show, they get to gloat more.

If she had, I have no doubt they'd have made it hell for her there.

The Austin thing is likely a root reason for the second groups behavior in January. It may be that it just took them the two weeks to really work up to it.

 

[Laurence]

That's the thing, it was reported she had already gotten a dress to go to this dance and discussed arrangements for transportation so this suicide does not sound like something planned for some time before it happened.

I think it was an impulsive, despairing decision made while she was home alone that afternoon.

I think what is truely bothering me so much is that she most likely could have been talked out of it if any one of the legions of people who have been captivated by this story could pop back in time and talk to her just before she went inside.

At least that's what bugs me the most. The horrible bullying, the insults, abuse... that's all terrible, but to my mind, untrained and inexperienced in dealing with stuff like this, the worst part of her story is just how alone she must have felt.:cry:

 

[thebear14]

Like I mentioned in another reply just now, it was an idle thought that the dance make a nice target for torturing her. If she doesn't show, they get to gloat more.

If she had, I have no doubt they'd have made it hell for her there.

The Austin thing is likely a root reason for the second groups behavior in January. It may be that it just took them the two weeks to really work up to it.

From AndyRyan: It makes sense if they were jealous of her, they probably wouldn't like to see her there especially at an occasion where she would be dressed up and looking even prettier than usual just in case she caught any of their "mens" eyes, they must have felt threatened by her on that level

Definitely. I'm sure she would be unwanted at that dance and it may very well be that some of that increased harassment was due to them not wanting her to go. I believe it was only a few days before she died that she bought a dress and shoes for the dance and from what I've read she had plans to talk on the phone with her date that night so I agree I don't think she planned on killing herself that day. I think the culmination of the whole week and especially that day just got to her.

As for why she would want to go...honestly if I were in her shoes I most likely wouldn't want to go knowing I would have to deal with those girls. But then again, even though I went to dances and proms and such, they were never my really my cup of tea. She probably did just want to and get out and have fun, she had a cute dress and shoes and a date and maybe hoped the girls would be preoccupied and not worry about harassing her that night. I would say that there would be teachers and parents around most likely as well to prevent anything from happening but, we see how well that turned out during school hours

 

[AndyRyan]

I think it was an impulsive, despairing decision made while she was home alone that afternoon.

I think what is truely bothering me so much is that she most likely could have been talked out of it if any one of the legions of people who have been captivated by this story could pop back in time and talk to her just before she went inside.

At least that's what bugs me the most. The horrible bullying, the insults, abuse... that's all terrible, but to my mind, untrained and inexperienced in dealing with stuff like this, the worst part of her story is just how alone she must have felt.:cry:

I agree trying to put myself in her shoes I find it hard to imagine the humiliation, hurt and isolation she must of felt on that walk home after the day she had experienced and she was only 15, a mere child. If my co-workers treated me like that today I would be absolutely gutted and if they did it for 3 months I honestly do not know how I would deal with it. It really galls me when people say that she should have been able to cope and that other people have been bullied and came out the other side etc. etc.
She sounds like she was a very sensitive, gentle person which is the way i think everyone should be, was it her fault that there are cruel awful people in the world and that because of her lack of hardness she couldn't defend herself? Its like people are saying that we all need to become hard and accept this atrocious behaviour or we are lacking. Since when is it wrong to be nice?

 

[thebear14]

I think it was an impulsive, despairing decision made while she was home alone that afternoon.

I think what is truely bothering me so much is that she most likely could have been talked out of it if any one of the legions of people who have been captivated by this story could pop back in time and talk to her just before she went inside.

At least that's what bugs me the most. The horrible bullying, the insults, abuse... that's all terrible, but to my mind, untrained and inexperienced in dealing with stuff like this, the worst part of her story is just how alone she must have felt.:cry:

I feel exactly the same way. I'm only 8 years older than she was, not a mom or even a big sister to anyone. I just want to go back in time, even though I didn't know her at all, and just like take her to the movies or mall and just help her to not feel so alone. It really doesn't seem like she planned this at all. Like you said, it was likely an impulsive, despairing decision.

I've taken quite a few sociology type classes and one theory that keeps coming to mind is The Looking Glass Theory - basically you begin to see yourself how others see you. I'm definitely not saying that this happens with everyone, so please don't start yelling at me. I even used to think it was kind of stupid until a few months ago when I had to do an exercise on it. We had to write about things that maybe other people had made fun of us for when we were younger, and what sort of things we feel self-conscious or whatever about today. I realized that a lot of the things that were said to me as a young kid shaped how I feel about myself today. One example is I started wearing glasses very early and used to get made fun of and called four-eyes and all that. Obviously now I think that's stupid but when you're 6 and already very shy it really sucks and hurts. Ever since I started wearing contacts 10 years ago I absolutely can't stand wearing glasses, hate how I look in them, and feel super self-conscious in them no matter how many people tell me they think glasses look good on me. When I put them on I'm instantly a 6 year old girl again even though I really don't think anybody at this point is seriously going to call me four eyes.

That's not the greatest example but it may be that these months of name-calling and whatnot ended up making Phoebe feel like she really was worthless and all these other names that people were calling her.

Or I may just be rambling on about nothing

 

[thebear14]

She sounds like she was a very sensitive, gentle person which is the way i think everyone should be, was it her fault that there are cruel awful people in the world and that because of her lack of hardness she couldn't defend herself? Its like people are saying that we all need to become hard and accept this atrocious behaviour or we are lacking. Since when is it wrong to be nice?

I agree so much. I myself and sensitive and not hard at all and I'll openly admit that. I recently had a situation while at college where I was being stalked and abused verbally and even physically once by a much older mentally unstable classmate. I tried getting help and when I went to the dean of the program I was in I was told that I should get used to that sort of behavior in the field I was going in and she couldn't understand why I was upset about any of it. She acted like my being upset by it was a problem and the behavior of my classmate was totally normal. Meanwhile I couldn't eat or sleep for that matter without using over the counter medication or ativan and still deal with it to this day.

there I go rambling again but I guess I'm just trying to say some of us are harder and some of us aren't and those who aren't really shouldn't be blamed when we start getting harassed. It's ridiculous. Others need to change their behavior, not the other way around. Oh and my situation started because I was "nice" to him. Gee, maybe I should just start being a total b to everyone I meet just in case they end up deciding to stalk me at a later time.

 

[concentric]

I believe that Sean (is that the football player?) was genuinely attracted to Phoebe. Why wouldn't he be? She was a beautiful, intelligent and sensitive Irish girl, with that sweet Irish brogue. He was at least partially Irish American.

I believe it was the jealous reaction of the girls, and their pressuring him to abandon her that drove her to kill herself.

 

[AndyRyan]

I agree so much. I myself and sensitive and not hard at all and I'll openly admit that. I recently had a situation while at college where I was being stalked and abused verbally and even physically once by a much older mentally unstable classmate. I tried getting help and when I went to the dean of the program I was in I was told that I should get used to that sort of behavior in the field I was going in and she couldn't understand why I was upset about any of it. She acted like my being upset by it was a problem and the behavior of my classmate was totally normal. Meanwhile I couldn't eat or sleep for that matter without using over the counter medication or ativan and still deal with it to this day.

there I go rambling again but I guess I'm just trying to say some of us are harder and some of us aren't and those who aren't really shouldn't be blamed when we start getting harassed. It's ridiculous. Others need to change their behavior, not the other way around. Oh and my situation started because I was "nice" to him. Gee, maybe I should just start being a total b to everyone I meet just in case they end up deciding to stalk me at a later time.

Thats awful, is it because people can't be bothered to deal with a person who behaves badly and it is easier to just fob off the person who is being harassed
because that person probably won't be able to demand action being that they will most likely be of a gentle nature.
It's like another form of bullying.
I used to see it a lot at school with my sister, she was very attractive but very "soft" and naive she just couldn't protect herself at all and this went on for years, girls were so awful to her they used to hit her and say terrible things about her at every opportunity there was no let up, I used to have to threaten them to keep away from her and I am not tough like that but the anger from seeing it happen over and over again spurred me on. It was quite similar to Phoebe's situation in that there was different groups of girls doing it and they wouldn't have been known to each other, it was purely a jealousy thing and they knew she wouldnt stand up for herself so she was always a target. I can tell you she survived physically but it has had a huge impact on her life and now 10-15 years later she is receiving counselling for it.

 

[thebear14]

I believe that Sean (is that the football player?) was genuinely attracted to Phoebe. Why wouldn't he be? She was a beautifu, intelligent and sensitive Irish girl. He was at least partially Irish American.

I believe it was the jealous reaction of the girls, and their pressuring him to abandon her that drove her to kill herself.

yes Sean was the football player and I do believe they may have had more of a dating relationship and that he may have been genuinely interested in her, even if it was just for physical reasons. I'm not positive about that but just from some things I've read that seems to be a plausible scenario.

I do believe the girls played the largest part, but unfortunately the relationships with the boys is what brought on the bullying. I just wish the boys would have stood up for her instead of joining in.

 

[concentric]

This is precisely why I think that Phoebe needed an advocate in the school, especially since she was new to America.