Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, Nov 2020 #7

[tennyson77]

IMO the spot pretty much must have been between the Port and the Pic, not on the southeast slope. That way remains could fall directly downwards and land next to the trail. Of course, they could have been deposited there by animals, but that seems less likely than gravity, snowmelt, or running water. If I were a fox, I'm not sure I'd want to hazard that scree slope or crumbly mountain shelves.

Only possible argument against that is I believe several animal bones were found along with the skull. So unless the animals died in roughly the same spot as Esther, I’m not sure gravity and timing could all get them in the same spot at roughly the same time. But I really have no idea. I live in Spain so would like to visit that area in the spring or early summer, so I am curious to know someday where she ended up, if it’s ever released. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dan finds a way to put a memorial nearby or something in the future anyways, although possibly not in the exact spot due to safety reasons.

 

[RickshawFan]

Very good point, thanks. She would also have to recharge her 2 torches from this powerbank too. The torch lasts about 3 hours in standard mode, it also has a proximity mode but it is pretty dim.

REVIEW: Petzl BINDI Headtorch

"The white LEDs have three power modes:

• Proximity: 5 lumen, 6m range and 50hr burn time
• Standard: 100 lumen, 23m, 3hrs
• Max: 200 lumen, 36m, 2hrs"

Also: "680 mAh lithium-ion battery takes ~ 4 hours to charge from empty" and there is supposedly a drop-off in battery holding charge if below zero degrees.

I'm no physicist but assume 5 charges from the powerbank would mean that the phone battery drains 5520mAh (27600 /5) and a torch/phone charge combined = 6200 mAh (5520 + 680). So it could do nearly 4.5 charges of one phone and one torch.

Does suggest she shouldn't have been low on phone power by the Port de Glere, unless she was doing a lot of night walking! If she was late and desperate to call, she may have climbed the Pic in low light levels to get a signal?

Yes, the Bindis only last two hours, and for current headlamps, they are very low-light. Often, they are used for trail running/city running, where you can re-charge them every night. It would be unusual for an experienced hiker not to take a headlamp with one-time use batteries and a spare set, since none of the rechargeables last long: it's unsafe to be caught in the dark on a mountain. (Viz the guy who stepped off Katahdin last year while taking a pee at night.)
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...iker-death-at-mount-katahdin-is-2nd-in-2-days

 

[OEJ-JEO]

We are assuming while alive, ED fell to the ledge where she was found. But the ledge may have figured post mortem, rather than pre-. The remains and gear may well have been invisible during the early winter and late spring searches; no surprise at all that they weren't possible to see (this is very common). Like the skull that rolled down to the trail, the remains and gear might have rolled down (released by ice?) from a greater height and thus become only recently visible.

My understanding of the preliminary remarks made by the procureur following the autopsy is that the combination of the site of discovery, the distribution of belongings and the injuries present are all consistent with a fall of 20-30m, and death being the result of that fall. I don't know that it's possible to be absolutely certain of that, but it seems by far the most likely explanation. The investigators have far more information than we do.

Pyrénées. Mort d'Esther Dingley : la blogueuse anglaise a très certainement été victime d'un accident | Actu Toulouse

It's certainly very likely that snow cover would have hidden the remains during the winter and spring, but remarks in the press indicate that they were also physically hidden from view in a "hideaway" or "gully". I suppose we can't rule out some movement of the remains, but we're still looking at a site 20-30m down a rock face, below a pinnacle, hidden from view, in a "very rugged area", somewhere above the Port de la Glère.

 

[arrogantcat]

IIRC the dossier stated she had plenty of back up to recharge her phone so I doubt this would have been an issue.

When out of signal range, phones work pretty constantly to try and establish a connection. It’s super power-hungry and can drain an older model phone in a matter of hours. Airplane mode makes sense to conserve power, even with a backup charge pack.

 

[OEJ-JEO]

Google Earth makes that whole ridge look easy (my point X is by the 'E' of 'Espana' in that picture by the way) but Pic de la Glere is really nothing but horrible jagged rock against the skyline. As super-fit as she no doubt was, I still can't believe she would go higher on her own.

No one in their right mind is going up that thing! Solo?

Thing is ... I reckon I might have given it go.

Viewed from the shores of the lake, it doesn't look too bad. The lower slopes are grassy, there are sheep or goat tracks in evidence, and the craggy complexity of the summit ridge isn't obvious from below. I reckon I can see a couple of zigzag routes that might get me up to the shoulder of the ridge below the summit slab with a pack on. And then that summit slab ... well, I've climbed worse.

I think Hope4More's comments above were right on the money. Seen from the first point of view, you might give it a go. It's a tough scramble, but Esther was fit, and she'd climbed things that were higher and steeper. Seen from the summit, you'd say no way! But you don't get that view until you're already quite high up.

 

[arrogantcat]

One thing I’m taking from these pictures: it’s a really breathtakingly beautiful area. I’m glad she was immersed in such beautiful nature in her last hours, at least.

 

[Grouse]

Do we actually know that the mat was unrolled and inflated? Those things pack up tiny and usually go in a tight stuff sack. They always go IN the pack (they'd get destroyed in no time on the outside of the pack). Plus, they take quite a bit of puff to get them filled and comfy. Memories: I did this every night for 6 months.

I thought that, I think there has been some confusion over what type of mat it is, i.e. it's a sleeping mat not a sit mat. The one I have does self inflate quite quickly, but takes quite a while to get the air out and get it back in the stuff bag, there's no way you'd get it out on a hike just to sit on for a while.

 

[Grouse]

Snipped for focus. I would, in contrast, expect those boots to be bald and sloppy. It sounds like yours are waaaaaay more robust. Even much less expensive boots can be waaaaaaay more robust.

It would appear they are, they're more traditional kind of boots and the sole is made from a quite dense rubber.

For perspective, the kind of boots ED was wearing I would destroy in about 2 weeks, and I'm super easy on shoes (I have shoes from 20 years ago). The soles don't hold up—they go slick really fast—and the ankles have no support, even when you first buy them. Keep in mind, they are fabric, not leather and don't have lugged (e.g. Vibram) soles.

I've never used that type of boot/shoe for actual hiking, always stuck to more traditional style. But I do now wear the ones that are designated "walking shoes" but look more like trainers (but budget end of the market) for general wear now instead of actual trainers, and the soles do seem to wear out faster than I'd have expected.

 

[mal23]

remains found at 2200m reminder...

 

[mal23]

The skull fragment was found at 2200m. The other remains were said to be located above the level of the Port (2367m).

nope, remains found nearby (<100m as crow flies or somesuch)..

 

[OEJ-JEO]

nope, remains found nearby (<100m as crow flies or somesuch)..

If you can make that fact fit all the evidence that contradicts it, you're a better man than I.

The only source I've come across for that suggestion is the Mail article, that throws around several contradictory figures, puts the skull at the Port, the body 400m below the Pic and 600m south of the skull down the path, says the summit is at 2300m, and calls DC "Mr Copeland"!

Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

I'm happy to accept that we may be barking up the wrong tree, but what reasoned alternative are you suggesting?

 

[RickshawFan]

Only possible argument against that is I believe several animal bones were found along with the skull. So unless the animals died in roughly the same spot as Esther, I’m not sure gravity and timing could all get them in the same spot at roughly the same time. But I really have no idea. I live in Spain so would like to visit that area in the spring or early summer, so I am curious to know someday where she ended up, if it’s ever released. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dan finds a way to put a memorial nearby or something in the future anyways, although possibly not in the exact spot due to safety reasons.

Thinking out loud….No ID yet on the animal bones, huh? I wonder if LE have a date for those? Carbon dating would be waaaaay over the top, and likely you’ve gotta be ancient, but you never know what genius ideas a bored undergraduate might come up with. Maybe they’re from a different vintage than the skull? And they definitely aren’t chicken from ED’s pack, since she leans vegan. ED could have landed on a marmot when she fell? ED’s remains could have nudged existing bones off a ledge? A fox slipped? The animal remains came from the Pic, but after ED had departed? A vulture dropped the 3(?) pieces? Another kind of animal had a cache higher up the slope, and part of the cache flowed downwards with snowmelt? The creature(s) ate something out of ED ‘s pack that killed it/them or disabled it/them instantly?
It sounds like I’m leaning towards…. no definitive speculation.

 

[RickshawFan]

I thought that, I think there has been some confusion over what type of mat it is, i.e. it's a sleeping mat not a sit mat. The one I have does self inflate quite quickly, but takes quite a while to get the air out and get it back in the stuff bag, there's no way you'd get it out on a hike just to sit on for a while.

The model ED and DC carry is all on the user to inflate. It doesn’t self inflate. The big advantage to this is that it is also easier to get the air out. A major disadvantage to this is that if you’re injured, it would be difficult to inflate: it’s not going to blow itself up for you.

I see there’s been some discussion about (presumably after inflation) using it as a kind of sit mat. There are a couple of unlikelihoods here. It would get destroyed in that terrain in a few seconds, just from being poked by a piece of scree. For sleeping, you’d situate it on a tarp. This model of mattress is only useable in summer; actually, it could induce hypothermia in cold conditions, because, uninsulated, it puts freezing air under you. If you were experienced, you’d not be wanting to sit on top of that thing in cold conditions, like the ones ED was in where it went below freezing at night.
That mattress would have blown away if it were inflated. It’s basically a balloon.

Personal example. Recently, I stayed at a friend’s house. She had very nicely made me a bed (I emphasize indoors) on an air mattress. I absolutely FROZE and didn’t have extra clothes with me. This was in a warm house! I took my pants off so they were double and put them between me and the mattress. It helped, but you don’t want to be sitting around on air mattresses in the backcountry in winter, let alone sleeping on them. If you like the cush (as I do when backpacking), you put a closed cell foam mattress on top of the air mattress. Of course, you could buy a very expensive insulated blow-up mattress, but in cold conditions it’s de rigueur to carry a closed cell foam mattress for safety reasons, even for day hikes.

 

[mal23]

If you can make that fact fit all the evidence that contradicts it, you're a better man than I.

The only source I've come across for that suggestion is the Mail article, that throws around several contradictory figures, puts the skull at the Port, the body 400m below the Pic and 600m south of the skull down the path, says the summit is at 2300m, and calls DC "Mr Copeland"!

Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

I'm happy to accept that we may be barking up the wrong tree, but what reasoned alternative are you suggesting?

 

[mal23]

how can you trust any news source that gives the Pic at 2300ft? not even anywhere near 2300m
(hypothesis; DM got wrong height of the Port from mapcarta webpage (2287m), then made ft blunder, then confused the Port with the Pic. Go figure...

 

[Federico_A]

nope, remains found nearby (<100m as crow flies or somesuch)..

I was thinking that the 100m was meant to be the horizontal distance between where she fell and the nearest part of the path below. I thought they were illustrating how close the body was to the path itself, not to the point on the path where the skull was found, which I think was much lower down (vertically 600m lower?).
Also, I took "400m below Pic de la Glere" to mean horizontally from the summit rather than vertically.
I may have misinterpreted entirely but that's how I arrived at point X.

 

[The_Investigator]

I thought that, I think there has been some confusion over what type of mat it is, i.e. it's a sleeping mat not a sit mat. The one I have does self inflate quite quickly, but takes quite a while to get the air out and get it back in the stuff bag, there's no way you'd get it out on a hike just to sit on for a while.

Unless you were planning to sit on it for a very long time.

 

[The_Investigator]

Thinking out loud….No ID yet on the animal bones, huh? I wonder if LE have a date for those? Carbon dating would be waaaaay over the top, and likely you’ve gotta be ancient, but you never know what genius ideas a bored undergraduate might come up with. Maybe they’re from a different vintage than the skull? And they definitely aren’t chicken from ED’s pack, since she leans vegan. ED could have landed on a marmot when she fell? ED’s remains could have nudged existing bones off a ledge? A fox slipped? The animal remains came from the Pic, but after ED had departed? A vulture dropped the 3(?) pieces? Another kind of animal had a cache higher up the slope, and part of the cache flowed downwards with snowmelt? The creature(s) ate something out of ED ‘s pack that killed it/them or disabled it/them instantly?
It sounds like I’m leaning towards…. no definitive speculation.

so perhaps the 3 bones were put together by ? Something/one,.. for what purpose? To make them look like they rolled down from above,. To justify looking above? Why didn’t SAR search on foot immediately above? I don’t understand that?

 

[Federico_A]

Thing is ... I reckon I might have given it go.

Viewed from the shores of the lake, it doesn't look too bad. The lower slopes are grassy, there are sheep or goat tracks in evidence, and the craggy complexity of the summit ridge isn't obvious from below. I reckon I can see a couple of zigzag routes that might get me up to the shoulder of the ridge below the summit slab with a pack on. And then that summit slab ... well, I've climbed worse.

I think Hope4More's comments above were right on the money. Seen from the first point of view, you might give it a go. It's a tough scramble, but Esther was fit, and she'd climbed things that were higher and steeper. Seen from the summit, you'd say no way! But you don't get that view until you're already quite high up.

It doesn't accord with DC's claim that she never went off-piste though. He sounded quite emphatic about that.
The only way I can see her going up that gruesome berg is if she met some hiker dude and he persuaded her to make the ascent with him. Then when she fell, he might have just scarpered - not wanting to be dragged into a lot of publicity about it or even be accused of murder...
No, I don't believe it either.

 

[ZaZara]

It doesn't accord with DC's claim that she never went off-piste though. He sounded quite emphatic about that.
The only way I can see her going up that gruesome berg is if she met some hiker dude and he persuaded her to make the ascent with him. Then when she fell, he might have just scarpered - not wanting to be dragged into a lot of publicity about it or even be accused of murder...
No, I don't believe it either.

IMO Esther did not go 'off-piste', she followed another trail that was described as “a treacherous” trail.

My guess is that it did not look difficult at the beginning, perhaps it even looked like the main trail or a short deviation, and that she walked into a trap. Might still have ended well if it wasn't for the shoes and the slippery rocks.