Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[snarast]

Doesn't that seem like an incredibly long response time? Gated community of at least fairly wealthy taxpayers and 3 911 calls from more than one person? The reporting from New Jersey and delayed knowledge seems logical, on the face of it. However, the very slow response time starts everything off as questionable.

Plus - Gus Colletti allegedly said to 911 on his phone call that Shannan was a blonde 14 yo - so why would anyone feel it was ok when this child in distress disappeared with the guy she was running from?

 

[WINDSOR]

Occam’s razor says Pak killed her because she was a liability and - quoting Bill Clinton - he did it because he could. And was likely furious.

Then Occam can’t rest easy knowing his words of wisdom are being constantly mistakenly applied in bizarre True Crime contexts.

Problems if MP was the culprit:

1. Why withhold 911 call for a decade. What connection to the Burke situaion would MP have? Trafficker of fresh meat?

2. Why would the recordings from the gate be destroyed - could MP just simply shoot the camera and then it was just thrown away? Assuming the data wasn’t stored in the cloud. Would he have the presence of mind to do so? If he killed her in a classic pimp-prostitute setting an example fashion he wouldn’t have reconned the place like that.

I am not positive who killed Shannan, however I am pretty confident MP knows who, what, where, when, why and how.

Dr. Hackett had very close ties with the SCPD, and had access to the gate camera video, and actually met and treated Shannan that night. The 911 call was with-held in my opinion, to protect the guilty.

Even though the SCPD was not actively investigating anybody in the case for all those years, they claimed they were.

If you want to cover up a crime, hide or destroy 'all' the evidence you can. 'Leave no loose ends' is the term I believe

 

[snarast]

I am not positive who killed Shannan, however I am pretty confident MP knows who, what, where, when, why and how.

Dr. Hackett had very close ties with the SCPD, and had access to the gate camera video, and actually met and treated Shannan that night. The 911 call was with-held in my opinion, to protect the guilty.

Even though the SCPD was not actively investigating anybody in the case for all those years, they claimed they were.

If you want to cover up a crime, hide or destroy 'all' the evidence you can. 'Leave no loose ends' is the term I believe

Best defense: pretend it wasn’t a crime at all.

 

[Betty P]

Best defense: pretend it wasn’t a crime at all.

Yes, it was suicide or an accident. That's the ticket.

 

[james.coff]

Correct me if I’m wrong but both autopsies found the hyoid and larynx were missing not broken. Badens report did indicate “roughness around the edges” where the hyoid bone would be attached… but I think if there was conclusive evidence it was broken he would have stated that.

Both say that the bone was broken and part was missing. The first one said there was a dent, the second said a hole. I researched it and read it is possible for the dent to turn to a hole with time so IDK if that means anything, but neither stated there was a possible accident. The first said undetermined, the second said consistent with strangulation but not confirmed (paraphrasing). I don't recall if the original noted the missing larynx

I would be less suspicious if they stated what they think the actual accident was...they never said anything specific, so it is hard to trust IMO.

 

[james.coff]

The hypothermia theory is the least logical of all possibilities. It was not dark, wet or cold.

Your personal attack that others with sensible theories are " emotionally invested" in them rather than reasonably drawn to them defies logic.

It is not the most rational explanation that she died from hypothermia, so if there is a theory supported by emotions over fact, that is it.

Nobody can tell you how to interpret the facts. However, you have no basis to call reasonable theories emotional.

MOO

Hypothermia is so out there IMO too! May isn't exactly super hot but the weather that area was pretty warm that year and for the week after she disappeared. No rain til the 12th also according to the website time and date weather..

 

[Baby baby Jane]

SG body was exposed to Atlantic Coastal winter, and two summers. So, a deep freeze, two scorching summers. There is a lot of potential for predation from animal, bird, and seaside creatures. IMO

 

[james.coff]

SG body was exposed to Atlantic Coastal winter, and two summers. So, a deep freeze, two scorching summers. There is a lot of potential for predation from animal, bird, and seaside creatures. IMO

 

[james.coff]

It's been a while since I read the reports, but I think both stated there was minimal animal activity, but I don't know how they could make that determination. It was a very long time that she was out there. Dr. Baden didn't have much to go on in the form of notes, the original was very vague and didn't even note that her jeans were not found on her body. Most of the police reports were written by the NJ Police too, I thought that was strange, but I assume there are possibly more reports that are not public, or maybe I just haven't discovered them. The court transcripts were so odd, John Ray attempted to gain so much basic info and was denied over and over, maybe they lost them. So many unanswered questions.

 

[snarast]

SG body was exposed to Atlantic Coastal winter, and two summers. So, a deep freeze, two scorching summers. There is a lot of potential for predation from animal, bird, and seaside creatures. IMO

It’s interesting that she could flail naked into a marsh that LE can’t be bothered to systematically traverse even after finding 10+ bodies in the vicinity.

 

[WINDSOR]

By now, I was hoping there would be some sort of comment from somebody, regarding the fact that RH knew or was associated with the individuals involved in Shannan's death.

Joseph Brewer, Dr. Hackett, Michael Pak, or other residents of Oak Beach.

Just as useful would be a comment that RH, knew none of these people, never associated with them and had no contact with them.

 

[dotr]

re post, fwiw..
June 24 '24 rbbm

How Valerie Mack and Shannan Gilbert are connected to Gilgo Beach killings

Alleged killer Rex Heuermann was charged with the murders of Jessica Taylor and Sandra Costilla, but not in the deaths of two other women connected to the case.

www.newsweek.com

''A private pathologist hired by the Gilbert family found insufficient evidence to confirm a cause of death. Renowned forensic pathologist Michael Baden, however, said Gilbert had suffered injuries "consistent with homicidal strangulation."

A taxi driver said in a sworn statement previously that she believes she saw Gilbert and Heuermann at the Sayville Motor Lodge. Gilbert allegedly told the cab driver that she met Heuermann on Craigslist and was promised financial assistance.''

 

[Ruminations]

according to: ‘Somebody's After Me:' Shannan Gilbert's Long-Secret 911 Calls Are Out. Listen Here

When LE arrived, Pak was gone and SG “gone” also Brewer gone. LE did not understand that SG was missing as there was no one to tell them that she was missing. Apparently they thought she left with Pak and situation resolved.
By time she was reported missing (2-3 days later in NJ) and investigation started from NJ, with expected slow response tapes were recorded over (typical).
Not seeing destroying video conspiracy based on NBC timeline.

IMO it’s Pak, dumped handbag looking for his pay & fatally injuring SG.
If not Pak … and accidental death, frantic dump of her own bag looking for drugs and overdose of substance trying to calm self down?

On one hand, it is a fact that Pak arranged the meeting between Brewer and Gilbert. I'm going to end this post with MOO because it is somewhere buried in these forums and in the internet that this was established. But there was a SCPD person who identified Pak as the go between for the "date" to a local radio host. Pak brought Shannan there; Shannan did not bring Pak as her driver to her client she arranged.

So, if you are pointing at Pak sus, I agree, for that reason and many others. But, if you are pointing to him to make it seem less important than the security footage being taped over, no. Pak has nothing to do with that.

First, the person in charge of the security tapes inserted himself into the case bizarrely, appearing to take actions to prevent Shannan being reported missing as best he could. Then, playing the role of the investigator, he took weird notes and engaged in a weird faux investigative interview with Pak and Alex. It was a case where the person in charge of the tapes was engaged in saying he cared for Shannan, trying to alter her last seen time and prevent others from concluding she was dead, suggesting indeed that he knew if she was alive or dead. And he, after it was clear the family was going to look for her, evolved to trying to control the "investigation." These actions are by the man in charge of the security footage!

Then, Hackett had repeated evasive and obfuscatory responses to questions about the tapes. Never did he say, "Dang! I should have thought of that! If only I thought of the tapes before they got taped over!" Even that would have been hard to believe. But that he wouldn't ever got to "D'oh!" about the tapes is deeply, deeply suspicious.

It just is not credible that the tapes organically were taped over.

As for reporting Shannan missing, there is often a big difference between when a person is reported missing, and when LE takes the report. The family did not delay, but LE did create obstacles as they often do. But the report in New Jersey, which could have been no more than a silly way to delay the report, and an inefficiency In that New Jersey would not have been, for instance, who should have responded to the 911 calls, really helped Shannan. Shannan's mother is easy to debunk being that she has been tragically murdered. But the police report she made gives everything she said about Peter Hackett and his contacts to her a great deal of credibility. She gave details before anyone could have imagined what they meant. So SCPD may have actually protected Shannan's murder case unwittingly when they had appeared to create an obstruction by refusing the missing person report.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

By now, I was hoping there would be some sort of comment from somebody, regarding the fact that RH knew or was associated with the individuals involved in Shannan's death.

Joseph Brewer, Dr. Hackett, Michael Pak, or other residents of Oak Beach.

Just as useful would be a comment that RH, knew none of these people, never associated with them and had no contact with them.

Well, that a statement has not been made that RH knew none of the people, and that the taxi driver by night account has never been debunked, I conclude that there were some interconnections.

Were the interconnections such that the murders for which Rex is charged related to Shannan's murder, or such that whatever Oak Beach residents were covering up had anything to do with any victims aside from Shannan, I can't say. I am prepared for further information to tell me almost anything about the nature of the connection. But I think "no connection," is pretty much not a realistic theory at this point.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

On one hand, it is a fact that Pak arranged the meeting between Brewer and Gilbert. I'm going to end this post with MOO because it is somewhere buried in these forums and in the internet that this was established. But there was a SCPD person who identified Pak as the go between for the "date" to a local radio host. Pak brought Shannan there; Shannan did not bring Pak as her driver to her client she arranged.

So, if you are pointing at Pak sus, I agree, for that reason and many others. But, if you are pointing to him to make it seem less important than the security footage being taped over, no. Pak has nothing to do with that.

First, the person in charge of the security tapes inserted himself into the case bizarrely, appearing to take actions to prevent Shannan being reported missing as best he could. Then, playing the role of the investigator, he took weird notes and engaged in a weird faux investigative interview with Pak and Alex. It was a case where the person in charge of the tapes was engaged in saying he cared for Shannan, trying to alter her last seen time and prevent others from concluding she was dead, suggesting indeed that he knew if she was alive or dead. And he, after it was clear the family was going to look for her, evolved to trying to control the "investigation." These actions are by the man in charge of the security footage!

Then, Hackett had repeated evasive and obfuscatory responses to questions about the tapes. Never did he say, "Dang! I should have thought of that! If only I thought of the tapes before they got taped over!" Even that would have been hard to believe. But that he wouldn't ever got to "D'oh!" about the tapes is deeply, deeply suspicious.

It just is not credible that the tapes organically were taped over.

As for reporting Shannan missing, there is often a big difference between when a person is reported missing, and when LE takes the report. The family did not delay, but LE did create obstacles as they often do. But the report in New Jersey, which could have been no more than a silly way to delay the report, and an inefficiency In that New Jersey would not have been, for instance, who should have responded to the 911 calls, really helped Shannan. Shannan's mother is easy to debunk being that she has been tragically murdered. But the police report she made gives everything she said about Peter Hackett and his contacts to her a great deal of credibility. She gave details before anyone could have imagined what they meant. So SCPD may have actually protected Shannan's murder case unwittingly when they had appeared to create an obstruction by refusing the missing person report.

MOO

Having experience with a missing (never found) adult person report on LI (Nassau County) was last known location but lived in Staten Island. Family Phone call to Nassau LE was referred to Staten Island.

I understand that policy is that report is made where person resides so not sure that SCLE referring family to NJ LE is “refusing” in that obstructive sense, but rather following established policy which might exist because it’s been found to be most effective and quicker to have the person’s home (in this case NJ) LE be the locale where the report is initiated. Maybe someone else knows history of this policy, it made sense in our MP case.

IMO SCLE did not “create” an obstruction by referring missing person report to home town LE, it is likely policy the call handler is following as happened in our MP case.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Having experience with a missing (never found) adult person report on LI (Nassau County) was last known location but lived in Staten Island. Family Phone call to Nassau LE was referred to Staten Island.

I understand that policy is that report is made where person resides so not sure that SCLE referring family to NJ LE is “refusing” in that obstructive sense, but rather following established policy which might exist because it’s been found to be most effective and quicker to have the person’s home (in this case NJ) LE be the locale where the report is initiated. Maybe someone else knows history of this policy, it made sense in our MP case.

IMO SCLE did not “create” an obstruction by referring missing person report to home town LE, it is likely policy the call handler is following as happened in our MP case.

With this case and other missing persons cases becoming so well known, perhaps we'll start to see some changes. Everyone's access to the Internet and almost real time information have changed many things including reports of missing people. The problem is keeping it in front of people, and podcasts seem to be helping with that.

 

[WINDSOR]

Well, that a statement has not been made that RH knew none of the people, and that the taxi driver by night account has never been debunked, I conclude that there were some interconnections.

Were the interconnections such that the murders for which Rex is charged related to Shannan's murder, or such that whatever Oak Beach residents were covering up had anything to do with any victims aside from Shannan, I can't say. I am prepared for further information to tell me almost anything about the nature of the connection. But I think "no connection," is pretty much not a realistic theory at this point.

MOO

Thinking about the possible connections between RH and Joseph Brewer, Dr. Hackett, Michael Pak, or other residents of Oak Beach, I realize nobody is talking about these connections.

What is interesting to me is that RH was actively involved with sex workers. Quite possibly he may have developed a reputation with local sex workers as a guy to stay away from.

We know that Brewer was also actively involved with sex workers on Long Island, but probably had a benign reputation with local sex workers.

Since Shannan did not usually work the Long Island area, she probably had no awareness of RH and his proclivities.

At this point, I think however there is a high probability RH had nothing to do with Shannan's death, based on a lack of evidence of his usual methods. Unless someone comes forward evidence of a relationship between the Oak Beach residents, such as he was at Brewer's house that night.

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

By now, I was hoping there would be some sort of comment from somebody, regarding the fact that RH knew or was associated with the individuals involved in Shannan's death.

Joseph Brewer, Dr. Hackett, Michael Pak, or other residents of Oak Beach.

Just as useful would be a comment that RH, knew none of these people, never associated with them and had no contact with them.

I absolutely believe RH is behind the murder of SG.

There is no doubt in my mind. Were others? No idea, unfortunately. The others who are involved might just have been so concerned about protecting the reputation of Oak Beach that they convinced themselves it was okay to turn a blind eye, or maybe just not look too deeply into anything disturbing occurring in their community. Some within "the system" might have been very displeased that SG's fam "lawyered up," too, and things might not have proceeded as (just speculating) they may have otherwise.

(RSBMFF)
We know that Brewer was also actively involved with sex workers on Long Island, but probably had a benign reputation with local sex workers.

And Bittrolff was actively involved with them, too. We're wondering now about the striking similarities between the murder of Sandra Costilla-- which is RH's handiwork-- to the murders of Colleen McNamee & Rita Tangredi, for which Bittrolff was convicted. Some feel RH stalked or tracked Bittrolff so Bittrolff would be charged (which happened). I've in the past wondered if there's not some cooperation between the two. Unless it can be proven, though, we'd probably have to veer towards the RH stalking of Bittrolff. So... was RH perhaps also stalking around after someone in this situation with SG as well? We don't know, but it certainly seems possible. Without knowing more, I'm going to continue to assume RH had some prior contact w/SG. But if one really believes he stalked/tracked Bittrolff, we can be assured Bittrolff's quite possibly not the only other client he stalked.

Everyone's always saying SG's case is different. SG's case may only be different because she's the only one that made a lengthy 911 call and screamed at the top of her lungs with multiple witnesses before she also ended up dead. I have no doubt that such significant departures from this SK's "routine" (911 call, screaming with witnesses) would have an impact.

 

[snarast]

I absolutely believe RH is behind the murder of SG.

Everyone's always saying SG's case is different. SG's case may only be different because she's the only one that made a lengthy 911 call and screamed at the top of her lungs with multiple witnesses before she also ended up dead. I have no doubt that such significant departures from this SK's "routine" (911 call, screaming with witnesses) would have an impact.

This.

 

[snooptroop88]

Question. How well known is Jones Beach to New Yorkers generally? Because I put in a post earlier for Asian Doe and other potential Asian victims, and it mentioned Captree State Park. This is close to where Shannan's remains were found in Oak Beach. Then, it occurred to me that SG had said she was "by" Jones Beach on that 911 call. But actually, she was in Oak Beach, about 12 miles away, with other beaches between.

So why'd she say Jones Beach? Coincidentally, a place RH would be incredibly familiar with. Did SG also acquire some familiarity with Jones Beach somehow, maybe have a call out there at some point earlier, maybe someone who called her who brought her to Jones Beach, and when pressed about Long Island, "Jones Beach" was what finally came to her mind?

Why is that? Now, understood, she may have been to a concert out in Jones Beach, or may have had some familiarity with it from some other source, in some other way. But it's somewhat alarming to me that the girl that doesn't know where she is in Long Island, very seldom wants to take calls in Long Island, and generally seems to avoid Long Island-- it's strange to me that when asked where she is in Long Island, she comes up with "by the Jones Beach," where RH victims were found and where RH worked, and she's not in Jones Beach.

Is there some alternative explanation for this? Do New Yorkers commonly think of Jones Beach in that timeframe when they think of Long Island? If not, that's something to think about MOO.