Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

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RedHaus said:
The Boston Globe article (below) about the case, that anglemom included in her post, is stunning in its heartfelt detail. Its also stunning how plausible it is that the same story is unfolding for ED. It just breaks my heart, and scares me so that Esther Dingley may be in the same predicament as Gerry Largay.
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Snipped for focus.
IMO What happened to Largay was awful, but her situation was VERY unique. So, I don't think it's a helpful comparator to ED's situation. IMO
Yes, Largay went missing in the backcountry, just as ED has gone missing in the backcountry. But, IMO there are light years difference between the 2 situations. For example, there's no indication ED was lost. She doesn't have a history of being disoriented, as Largay did. The Maine woods where Largay went missing are dense, inpenetrable, and it's impossible to get a vista to see where you are. ED's route is exactly the opposite.
On the other hand, ED's situation seems a lot like many we have seen before: well-prepared, experienced, seemingly okay conditions, 99.9% likelihood of accident (per LE).
This is very much like 3 situations that are current on WS right now:
Deceased/Not Found - WA - Sam Dubal, 34, UW professor, Mother Mountain Loop, Mowich Lake TH, Mount Rainier, 9 Oct 2020

ID - ID- Fern Baird, 64, poss. hiker, Prairie Creek Area, Blaine Co., 22 Oct 2020

WA - WA - Rachel Lakoduk, 28, hiker, Marblemount, North Cascades, 17 Oct 2019

These are all people who likely "did everything right".
There are many more!
 
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patCee said:
I think you can add to that DC's view that an accident is less likely due to her extensive experience; her friend's comment that as she is extremely strong and fit, unlikely to fall; the aunt's view that she may have been kidnapped.

ETA: Pressing the italic button above the post works to get rid.
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Very good points! Agree with you 100%. Things are very confusing...

I do believe that sometimes we put too much faith in experience and being physically fit. Don't get me wrong, its vital. But accidents happen to the most experienced and the more fit.

I can't help but think of Ueli Steck. He achieved the impossible... Speed climbed the Eiger North Wall in 2 hours 47 minutes and some seconds, climbed the notorious Annapurna South Face solo, and so many other impossible achievements. And then... he fell and died during an acclimatizing climb on Nuptse on much easier ground than he is used to. It is unknown what caused the fall... A unfortunate, tragic accident... and he truly was one of the most amazing athletes in the world.

I continue to believe she is somewhere on that mountain. :(

All MOO.
 
Lardars said:
ED seems to have had a sudden interest focussing her attention on Luchon in her last few days, conversing on 21st with Mr. Ballarin that she was heading there, posing 21st and 22nd atop Sauvegarde showing Luchon as a backdrop, mentioning Luchon in an Instagram post on 21st “Amazing views on the border of France and Spain. Overlooking pic Aneto and Spain's last glacier... bagneres luchon on the otherside!” - the post also has the remark “@dancolegate Maybe I can see you!!”. Why would she say that ? It's almost as if she thinks her B/F is in the valley below at Luchon.
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That remark "maybe I can see you" really stood out for me when I first read it. Not sure why, but it made me feel very slightly at unease. Not sure why though.
 
Liz40 said:
That remark "maybe I can see you" really stood out for me when I first read it. Not sure why, but it made me feel very slightly at unease. Not sure why though.
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Another poster responded previously and I agree with their perception. Esther was looking out over a huge, spectacular valley, seemed to me to be a pretty romantic comment from her to Dan.

IMO
 
stmarysmead said:
In one of the articles, it says that Esther was so enjoying the experience, that she kept extending her time away. I’m wondering if Dan and Esther use just cash or if she carried a credit card? If she left home with a certain amount of cash, it may just have covered estimated expenses for the original time planned away. Now at the end of the trip, still wanting to be on the mountains she loved, money for fresh food supplies might have been very tight. ( discussion over price of chia seeds.)
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Yes, indeed we know nothing about budget. I would have gone for peanuts over chia seeds. Cheaper and more energy and protein providing, plus you need to take on a lot of water for chia seeds both to immerse them and to digest over time.
 
RickshawFan said:
IMO What happened to Largay was awful, but her situation was VERY unique. So, I don't think it's a helpful comparator to ED's situation. IMO
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Snipped for Focus

RickshawFan, I generally don't disagree with you. Missing hikers, climbers, etc. - even those very experienced and well prepared - are all too common and often have very sad endings. And certainly the Maine mountain environ is very different from the Pyrenees alpine environ.

However, my consideration in comparing these two cases is in part the similarities as to how the investigation unfolded and all the missing pieces of the puzzle, in part the similarities of two women hiking solo in fairly difficult situations, and of course the possibility that Esther got lost as Gerry did.

Even though the terrain should have been easier for Esther to navigate (i.e. line of sight), I have to wonder, IMO, whether she could have gotten disoriented and lost due to any number of reasons.
  • @AuntiSeagul'spost #383 in Thread #1 described such possibilities for Esther: “... banalities, like cold, exhaustion, fatigue, dehydration, physical ilness [sic] setting in, or electrolyte imbalance (she asked for fruit while going up), that can cause confusion.”... and we can add loss of daylight too.
  • @Atoz's post #14 in Thread #1 is also something to consider: “I've only walked across the Pyrenees once but I was impressed by how quickly the temperature dropped and also how quickly you can end up in disorienting clouds.” That too could have gotten Esther all turned around.
Further, I think we've all seen in Esther's FB posts that she, like Gerry, does have a history of getting lost (her bike ride story video posted up thread) and turned around on trails (following animal paths). But I am certainly not judging Esther for that - we all can get lost! I just observe this similarity.

Lastly, I'll end this post with a visual that continues to ring loudly in my head on this case. It was
@ZaZara's post #384 in Thread #1, “I'd say she disappeared somewhere between the top of the Salvaguardia and her campervan in Benasque and I would look for her among trees.”

For any number of incapacitating reasons, IMO, Esther may have decided not to go to Refuge de Vanasque. If she never made it through Port de Venasque, could she have gotten disoriented on her descent back to her van? Or like I've opined in Thread #1, IMO, could an incapacitated state taken her past the Refuge de Vanesque without stopping (perhaps in search of cell service to call Dan)? And if so, that would take her below tree line, possibly getting lost in a dense forest in the early evening of 11/22.

Just my two (maybe three!) cents.
 
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I am of the Dr. Joseph Bell school of thought in respect of deduction, observation etc and I try, where appropriate, to inculcate these and apply them accordingly.
I am looking to ED to see what clues, if any, she may have provided around the time of her disappearance.
On that basis:
On 21st Nov, in a brief discussion with a stranger, Mr. Ballarin, mention of Luchon was clearly at the forefront of her mind.
In two separate subsequent summits to Sauvegarde on 21st and 22nd Nov, ED selected radiantly, carefree smiling poses to send via mobile / social networking.
In each of the selected poses, ED is standing to the side, giving centre pic focus to the valley town of Luchon.
A picture with only her walking poles propped against a boulder, with Luchon again immediately behind in the distant background, is also selected.
In addition to the pictures, Luchon is mentioned, emphasised with an exclamation mark, as well as the specific words “Maybe I can see you!!”” emphasised with a double exclamation mark.

Luchon definitely meant something to ED, imo - and she seemed to spend most of the 22nd hiking in the lower walking areas before going up Sauvegarde, almost as an afterthought. Perhaps she had arranged to meet a person(s), they had been delayed and being a clear sunny afternoon, she decided to take in the summit ? If a new ETA had been arranged and she knew a person(s) was on their way to meet up with her, she probably would not be too concerned.

I feel a person(s) hiked up from the Luchon valley to rendezvous with ED in the Sauvegarde region and arrived under cover of darkness. I have an impression of what may have subsequently occurred, but I cannot say as it may reveal an identity of a person(s).
 
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Lardars said:
I am of the Dr. Joseph Bell school of thought in respect of deduction, observation etc and I try, where appropriate, to inculcate these and apply them accordingly.
I am looking to ED to see what clues, if any, she may have provided around the time of her disappearance.
On that basis:
On 21st Nov, in a brief discussion with a stranger, Mr. Ballarin, mention of Luchon was clearly at the forefront of her mind.
In two separate subsequent summits to Sauvegarde on 21st and 22nd Nov, ED selected radiantly, carefree smiling poses to send via mobile / social networking.
In each of the selected poses, ED is standing to the side, giving centre pic focus to the valley town of Luchon.
A picture with only her walking poles propped against a boulder, with Luchon again immediately behind in the distant background, is also selected.
In addition to the pictures, Luchon is mentioned, emphasised with an exclamation mark, as well as the specific words “Maybe I can see you!!”” emphasised with a double exclamation mark.

Luchon definitely meant something to ED, imo - and she seemed to spend most of the 22nd hiking in the lower walking areas before going up Sauvegarde, almost as an afterthought. Perhaps she had arranged to meet a person(s), they had been delayed and being a clear sunny afternoon, she decided to take in the summit ? If a new ETA had been arranged and she knew a person(s) was on their way to meet up with her, she probably would not be too concerned.

I feel a person(s) hiked up from the Luchon valley to rendezvous with ED in the Sauvegarde region and arrived under cover of darkness. I have an impression of what may have subsequently occurred, but I cannot say as it may reveal an identity of a person(s).
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Lardars,
I don't understand what you mean regarding "it may reveal an identity of a person(s)"?
 
As is always the case, when a misper thread has no leads for a couple of weeks, people start coming up with ever wilder theories.

At the moment there is absolute no suggestion from police, SAR, the family, or even the media that anyone else is involved in Esther’s disappearance. While it can be considered that there may be an alternative explanation, there are no suspects, no POIs and no direct witnesses to cast aspersions on. We cannot point fingers at anyone.
 
CoverMeCagney
I'm relieved to read your above post because I thought I was missing something in spite of having read through these threads from the start.
Of course, anything is possible but I'm really struggling with the strong emphasis on third party involvement with her disappearance bearing in mind what is known.
 
Recliner said:
CoverMeCagney
I'm relieved to read your above post because I thought I was missing something in spite of having read through these threads from the start.
Of course, anything is possible but I'm really struggling with the strong emphasis on third party involvement with her disappearance bearing in mind what is known.
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Oh thank god someone replied - I thought I’d killed the thread!
 
Officer Dibble said:
So she knew what she had to do re mobile phone etc when going hiking.
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So this may suggest DC could be right about ED being in the relatively small area he identified, with no cell link. If she had moved on she would have called him, as it's clear that she always had her phone with her. Though it has been noted that the battery could have died.
 
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patCee said:
So this may suggest DC could be right about ED being in the relatively small area he identified, with no cell link. If she had moved on she would have called him.
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Yes, and I imagine Dan has been quite methodical about mapping that area out. Even if she hadn’t actually called, her phone should’ve pinged a mast. IIRC he said there wouldn’t have been signal in the valley where the refuge is, but it should’ve reconnected when she set off again the next morning.
 
Missing Brit hiker 'may not be found for five years if she fell on glacier'


A number of theories has been proposed, including whether Esther suffered a mountain accident, whcih Spain's Civil Guard says is the "most probable" cause of her disappearance.

It has been speculated that she fell while crossing an icy stretch of Mount Maladeta, close to the Spanish town of Benasque, where Esther had parked her camper van and set out on a five-day solo hike.


BBM

I wonder if there is truth in this claim or if this is an unsubstantiated rumour being recycled by MSM.

The Pico Maladeta is located south of Llanos del Hospital in the area on the southside of the road.
The Pic Salvaguardia where Ester was last located is on the north side of the road. Esther would have left the area and gone south into Spain instead of hiking towards France.

IMO, but that is me, according to her planning, she would hardly have had the time to do this AND return to the van in time.

This could be a case of where might she vanish in a glacier? Mount Maladeta? Okay, then that's where she fell, and it will take 5 years to find her.
 
CoverMeCagney said:
Yes, and I imagine Dan has been quite methodical about mapping that area out. Even if she hadn’t actually called, her phone should’ve pinged a mast. IIRC he said there wouldn’t have been signal in the valley where the refuge is, but it should’ve reconnected when she set off again the next morning.
Click to expand...
Both DC and the SAR are described as searching that area intensively and found no signs of ED at all. I know it it often happens to hikers that sadly a body may be found a long time later, perhaps years. As you say DC has likely searched methodically. So I guess it's back to did she go forward towards the Luchon area, or return towards her van the latter an area she was, by then, very familiar with.
 
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