Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[Quietey]

Agree with the point made by Bobblebob about chat with a stranger being a sounding board, or a reflection of thoughts just at that particular time, not necessarily fixed.

 

[Grouse]

Very sorry for your loss @BobbleBob, hope that this thread isn't too close to home for you at times.

Yes I echo that, sorry to read about your loss @BobbleBob

 

[stmarysmead]

If Esther was considering leaving Dan, IMO this would include more devastation beyond the relationship breakup.

So much of their “brand”...their lifestyle monetization....was centered on this concept that this life of simplicity created happiness. IMO Esther leaving Dan would severely damage the brand and damage the ability of either one of them to depend financially on the books, etc.

So she couldn’t just sever the emotional relationship without impacting negatively the financial relationship. There was so much co-dependency that, from my point of view, this would have made Esther very conflicted emotionally. Was she trying to figure out how to go without hurting Dan?

I imagine the investigators know more than has been released. Perhaps I am far off base here, but how would a highly sensitive person deal emotionally if leaving your partner had so many complications and possible devastations? Dan has even articulated in his statement that his entire life was planned around them growing old together. Maybe hers was too. We can’t know. But what a tremendous burden if she wanted out!

opinions and unverified ramblings only, of course.

 

[sundaaaay]

Agree - Esther is clearly extremely intelligent, well qualified and certainly organised enough to live the life she has chosen out of a vehicle in a foreign country while documenting it and writing books. She also appears to feel her emotions very strongly and I'm sure many of us can imagine the total disruption that this might have on planning at times.

My gut feeling isn't that E&D were running out of money, more that they were keenly aware that their resources were finite and wanted to eke them out as long as possible. And maybe became quite competitive with themselves in finding ways of doing this so much so that it became their lifestyle.

I don't think we should read too much into the food or lack of food reports - Esther looks in amazing good health to me, the right sort of weight, strong and vibrant. She could have had all sorts of food tucked away in her bag, in reserve - we just don't know.

Also agree (as mentioned previously) that - among the many possibilities - she could have just had a very unfortunate accident, particularly in the fading light (tripping over shoelace - lol - I did that one while running to catch a train, luckily I hadn't reached the stairs), near sheer drops, with a heavy bag.

One factor that seems particularly pertinent to me is the timing of her disappearance - just after glowing national publicity. The blogs, the book, the lifestyle were all in effect "work" for E&D even if not wage-earning. The publicity painted something that was maybe not the reality, and maybe the relationship aspect was more complicated. If true, this must have felt complicated. There was a certain amount to live up to - difficult! Did Esther herself seek the publicity and did she welcome it? Again, could have led to decisions other than those expected of her.

I'm aware that this doesn't answer "where is she?" at all. For me it still could be any of the options we've discussed. I still really don't think she would choose to "abscond" for the sake of her loved ones.

PS @HongKongPhooey - I think "taking a break" is how it could be said in the UK, more a recent thing though (my teenager would say that)

Very good point- the timing of the BBC article which painted the picture of an exciting nonconformist lifestyle the couple had created, when in reality the relationship was on the rocks, uncertainty of Brexit loomed and DC actually had a desire to live more settled life- is this not an incredible coincidence. Also the continually extending her trip, and this was supposed to be her ‘last hike’, it does make you wonder if her plan was to stay in the mountains forever. But then at the same time on their blog they didn’t hide the fact they had relationship problems, they are actually quite frank about it.

There is another argument for the suicide hypothesis, and that is we know that ED was extremely hurt when DC almost died a few years prior due to a health condition. They discuss this a lot and mention it’s worse for the one who lives on. I wonder did ED want to hurt DC in this same manner.

By having a ‘break’ I think they meant some time to think about their relationship after some sort form of existential disagreement. There clearly was uncertainty about their future but we can’t be sure exactly what happened. Maybe their relationship developed into something more platonic after spending so much time together in close quarters. I do think they are very close and perhaps absence made their hearts grow fonder so time apart was a healthy thing to do.

 

[Angleterre]

Also, we haven't actually heard from Esther. Its from a third party. I dont for one minute think the third party made it up but its possibly open to interpretation.

Something that bothers me a bit about the taking a break thing. Its not particularly an English term. Its an Americanism which came over with Friends I think! So its been here for a while and people no doubt do use it but I think more common would be having a breather, not together at the moment, having some time out..

It could just be the witness presented it that way, just slightly grates on me.

What do my fellow Englanders think?

I am one of your fellow Englanders and actually, I hear it called ‘taking a break‘ moreso than any other phraseology HKP
X

 

[Grouse]

<snipped for focus>
If Esther was considering leaving Dan, IMO this would include more devastation beyond the relationship breakup.

So much of their “brand”...their lifestyle monetization....was centered on this concept that this life of simplicity created happiness. IMO Esther leaving Dan would severely damage the brand and damage the ability of either one of them to depend financially on the books, etc.

The high profile BBC interview they did, and which was published on 22nd Nov, would add to that potential devastation/pressure. But equally her taking part could indicate she had no intentions of breaking up, it would seem an odd thing to take part if she was. I don't know when they did it exactly, but it was while ED was in the Pyrenees and DC at the farmhouse.

 

[RedHaus]

Just a few random thoughts.

Esther’s last two days before her disappearance interest me. On the 21/11 she thanks Dan for “ALL the messages to get me going” apparently receiving them as she prepares to leave the motorvan. Why did Dan feel he had to micromanage when she left? If this was HER trip, why besiege a capable adult woman to start...when DAN fedls she must? I find this interesting.

So she gets on her way, hitching, and faithfully keeps him informed. She reaches the Pic and checks in. Then in early afternoon she sets off again..but back toward the Cabana de la Besurtas.

Now, according to Dan...
‘Spends the night alone at Cabana de la Besurtas on the Spanish side (Esther had no phone signal once she left the peak, but she confirmed this the following day when she returned to Pic de Sauvegarde0’

Was this an excuse for no contact for over 24 hours?

Do we know independently that there is no phone signal between the Pic and the Cabana de la Besurtas? Esther had informed him...incorrectly...about the signal from the Refuge going forward on the French side, so are we sure he isn’t just relying on a similar misstatement?

From early afternoon till late afternoon the next day, we have no information about how she spends those hours. I’m curious if she was just seeking some quiet time, without his texts urging her to get going on HIS timetable. Or feeling controlled from afar. Or time to consider her fears, worries, etc without interruption or emotional pressure. Just speculating because we can’t know unless witnesses come forward. IMO Dan does not know either. The last texts and very short conversation probably did not afford time for any details.

This is a woman who seems to often rise at dawn, with many superb sunrise photos. Yet there is quite some time unaccounted for between arriving the night before at the Cabana and reaching the Pic in late afternoon the next day. And in that time she was seemingly alone with her thoughts.

My rambling thoughts and opinions only...

Hi stmarysmead. Funny (although nothing about this case is funny!) I was musing about the same question you expressed here over my breakfast this morning.

What was ED doing for about 20 hours 21/11-22/11? So I came up with a handful of possible answers - although we will likely never know. That said, it may be very telling to know as it may predict what happened to ED the next 24 hours 22/11-23/11. Anyhow, here are the options I considered this morning:

1) She was just resting at Cabana de la Besurtas trying to get her strength and fortitude lined up for the rest of her trek,
2) She was off exploring the Maladeta Glacier, which I believe is nearby (she loved glaciers!),
3) She was writing good-bye notes to DC and her family, which she tucked into her back pack,
4) She was actually never at the Cabana but back at her van or maybe a hotel treating herself to a nice stay and meal,
5) She was preparing her final plans for whatever she ended up doing after she summited pic de sauvegarde

Others' thoughts?

 

[Hatty]

From Esther we have heard that they were taking a break and may not get back together. From Dan we hear that there were no relationship problems and they couldn’t wait to be back together. There has to be a reason why both give such conflicting reports....

No we haven’t heard it from Esther. We’ve heard this stuff about ‘taking a break’ from a tabloid newspaper!!

 

[Hatty]

Also, we haven't actually heard from Esther. Its from a third party. I dont for one minute think the third party made it up but its possibly open to interpretation.

Something that bothers me a bit about the taking a break thing. Its not particularly an English term. Its an Americanism which came over with Friends I think! So its been here for a while and people no doubt do use it but I think more common would be having a breather, not together at the moment, having some time out..

It could just be the witness presented it that way, just slightly grates on me.

What do my fellow Englanders think?

Well I often go on weekend breaks, short breaks etc (well I did before Boris locked me up). If I recall correctly Esther was initially going on a short break and then extended her break. It doesn’t mean she was taking a break from her relationship. As you say, this is open to interpretation and manipulation for whatever makes a good story. It doesn’t mean the female witness actually said it as it has been quoted. I have personal experience of this I can assure you!

 

[Hatty]

Just a few random thoughts.

Esther’s last two days before her disappearance interest me. On the 21/11 she thanks Dan for “ALL the messages to get me going” apparently receiving them as she prepares to leave the motorvan. Why did Dan feel he had to micromanage when she left? If this was HER trip, why besiege a capable adult woman to start...when DAN fedls she must? I find this interesting.

So she gets on her way, hitching, and faithfully keeps him informed. She reaches the Pic and checks in. Then in early afternoon she sets off again..but back toward the Cabana de la Besurtas.

Now, according to Dan...
‘Spends the night alone at Cabana de la Besurtas on the Spanish side (Esther had no phone signal once she left the peak, but she confirmed this the following day when she returned to Pic de Sauvegarde0’

Was this an excuse for no contact for over 24 hours?

Do we know independently that there is no phone signal between the Pic and the Cabana de la Besurtas? Esther had informed him...incorrectly...about the signal from the Refuge going forward on the French side, so are we sure he isn’t just relying on a similar misstatement?

From early afternoon till late afternoon the next day, we have no information about how she spends those hours. I’m curious if she was just seeking some quiet time, without his texts urging her to get going on HIS timetable. Or feeling controlled from afar. Or time to consider her fears, worries, etc without interruption or emotional pressure. Just speculating because we can’t know unless witnesses come forward. IMO Dan does not know either. The last texts and very short conversation probably did not afford time for any details.

This is a woman who seems to often rise at dawn, with many superb sunrise photos. Yet there is quite some time unaccounted for between arriving the night before at the Cabana and reaching the Pic in late afternoon the next day. And in that time she was seemingly alone with her thoughts.

My rambling thoughts and opinions only...

Sorry, but I think there are a lot of unfair and judgemental assumptions here about DC and the relationship.

This is all getting way off track.

 

[ZaZara]

No we haven’t heard it from Esther. We’ve heard this stuff about ‘taking a break’ from a tabloid newspaper!!

I felt more at ease with the discussion about oats, pepper and lettuce.

IMO this was a tragic incident. If Esther had wanted to leave her partner, even to disappear and start a new life, she had every opportunity to do so in a less dramatic manner.
Ask her mother for money if she needed it, stay in the campervan and inform her family and the police that she was OK and did not want to be found. Get a new phone number and be done.

Nothing in what I have read about Esther strikes me as cruel or desperate, and IMO whatever may have happened to her, she would not have wished this anguish about her disappearance on anyone.

 

[fridaybaker]

I felt more at ease with the discussion about oats, pepper and lettuce.

IMO this was a tragic incident. If Esther had wanted to leave her partner, even to disappear and start a new life, she had every opportunity to do so in a less dramatic manner.
Ask her mother for money if she needed it, stay in the campervan and inform her family and the police that she was OK and did not want to be found. Get a new phone number and be done.

Nothing in what I have read about Esther strikes me as cruel or desperate, and IMO whatever may have happened to her, she would not have wished this anguish about her disappearance on anyone.

A tragic accident with no sign of body or gear, though. It makes one think. While accident is highly likely, and it seems most everyone agrees that it is the likeliest event, the lack of any sign of her, especially after several days of SAR activity, is what beckons discussions of suicide or kidnapping. (If this was an accident, my bet is summit and bottom of lake.)

I have always agreed, though, that staging her own disappearance to start a new life is very low on the list of possibilities. It would be difficult to split with Dan, but she doesn't seem to be a cruel person, and her mother is evidently distraught. I just can't see that option.

 

[stmarysmead]

We are discussing a disappearance that even, in Dan’s opinion, is befuddling if not downright mysterious.

Dan seems to have a great deal of confidence in the totality and efficiency of the search and he has equal confidence in Esther’s abilities to handle all aspects of this trek. My interpretation of his dossier is that he rules out voluntary disappearance, is very doubtful of an accident, and favors a third party criminal possibility.

Using the limited information that any of us have, we all are debating the merits of each scenario. We each rank those possibilities as we find them, but we cannot rule any out. We have discussed alternative routes and the dangers inherent in those routes.We have discussed Dan’s suggestion of hunters with guns. We have discussed animals bumping her off trails.

And yes, especially since Esther’s blog offers a great deal of personal information of her emotional struggles, we have parsed her words. I think that’s just as legitimate as looking at alternative routes and all the rest...because this disappearance could well be the result of her emotional state.

It’s a tragic possibility but it’s an undeniable possibility.

Now we have had at least two articles, which seem to indicate that one source of Esther’s reoccurring despair is a deterioration of the relationship. IMO, that possibility is no more off track than looking at alternative routes and chamois and hunters.

I’m certain that the Investigators feel they must pursue it as well. And we each can make up our own minds as to it’s possible value.

 

[BobbleBob]

Very sorry for your loss @BobbleBob, hope that this thread isn't too close to home for you at times.

Yes I echo that, sorry to read about your loss @BobbleBob

Thanks both for your kind words, I’m probably an oddball as I find this thread fascinating some lots of incredible work and sleuthing from people on here.

I can see some similarities between ED and my partner - similar personalities, tries to find the good in everyone, outwardly very happy and positive, and some health issues that cause her to strive to maximise her activities and enjoyment of life when she can.

That last point might add to an explanation as to why ED was stretching out her return date, wanting to try and get the maximum time in the mountains as she didn’t know when she could return again.

One more thing that I’ve been meaning to say on this thread, and had been mentioned before by some posters, is that we never truly know someone. We can have 20 years experience of someone but still be surprised by things they do that we consider out of the ordinary or ‘out of character’ when in fact it is in their true nature, it’s just that we have never seen their true nature (or we choose to ignore it and the other questions that might raise).

 

[10ofRods]

Since yesterday, people were curious why we were discussing Esther's state of mind and the effects of diet/hiking on it, I"m curious why we are now discussing her relationship.

How would a desire to either take a break from DC or not take a break from DC impact what ED did after she left the peak?

Why would she not eventually return to her van, her writing projects, etc.? There's no reason to suspect that "taking a break" means "running away and hiding."

As to Esther's supposed dependency on their "brand," I think she did step out into a new direction with the children's books, which are not dependent on van life or their brand.

 

[Grouse]

We are discussing a disappearance that even, in Dan’s opinion, is befuddling if not downright mysterious.

Dan seems to have a great deal of confidence in the totality and efficiency of the search and he has equal confidence in Esther’s abilities to handle all aspects of this trek. My interpretation of his dossier is that he rules out voluntary disappearance, is very doubtful of an accident, and favors a third party criminal possibility.

Using the limited information that any of us have, we all are debating the merits of each scenario. We each rank those possibilities as we find them, but we cannot rule any out. We have discussed alternative routes and the dangers inherent in those routes.We have discussed Dan’s suggestion of hunters with guns. We have discussed animals bumping her off trails.

And yes, especially since Esther’s blog offers a great deal of personal information of her emotional struggles, we have parsed her words. I think that’s just as legitimate as looking at alternative routes and all the rest...because this disappearance could well be the result of her emotional state.

It’s a tragic possibility but it’s an undeniable possibility.

Now we have had at least two articles, which seem to indicate that one source of Esther’s reoccurring despair is a deterioration of the relationship. IMO, that possibility is no more off track than looking at alternative routes and chamois and hunters.

I’m certain that the Investigators feel they must pursue it as well. And we each can make up our own minds as to it’s possible value.

I pretty much agree with all of that. I've been concerned sometimes how the thread has seemed to veer of course, but the emotional side of this is relevant and not off track IMO.

Yes the latest article is the British tabloid press, and we know what they are capable of, but it would have to be pretty much total fabrication to not be of relevance - and in that case we may as well ignore the meagre food portion part as well.

BBM - LA said : 'Esther said they were taking a break and didn't know if they were going to get back together again.

'When you're not 100 per cent okay with your partner, you're not going to be totally balanced emotionally.'

If (OK maybe it's a big IF) these are at all accurate quotes made by someone who recently spent a whole day with ED (rather than the impressions of someone who passed her on a trail, or saw her in a shop) then they are a pretty strong indicators of a possible relationship problem (and thus it's effect on her state of mind), and are as relevant as the nutritional breakdown of her food.

 

[Grouse]

Thanks both for your kind words, I’m probably an oddball as I find this thread fascinating some lots of incredible work and sleuthing from people on here.

I don't that you're an oddball. One of the reasons I think I have connected so much with this thread (the other being the BBC article) is because someone I knew, a friend of my wife's, was killed while solo backpacking.

 

[stmarysmead]

Since yesterday, people were curious why we were discussing Esther's state of mind and the effects of diet/hiking on it, I"m curious why we are now discussing her relationship.

How would a desire to either take a break from DC or not take a break from DC impact what ED did after she left the peak?

Why would she not eventually return to her van, her writing projects, etc.? There's no reason to suspect that "taking a break" means "running away and hiding."

As to Esther's supposed dependency on their "brand," I think she did step out into a new direction with the children's books, which are not dependent on van life or their brand.

I guess it all depends on how fragile emotionally Esther was. You and I can read the same things and come away with two very different conclusions...fair enough. And as BobbieBob reminds us, we can even have a relationship for many years, and yet not know their true nature.

I’ve spent hours reading her words. My conclusion, my opini0n, is that this is a very emotionally fragile woman who struggles with many things the rest of us consider just...life. Although their “brand’ speaks of a simple carefree existence, I posted a quote upthread where she feels overwhelmed by ‘work.’ Is there an expectation that she spend a certain amount of time on these books and that stresses her intensely?

Yes, she does the interview. I believe she loves Dan and wants to please him. But this is a step back IMO to the life of business requirements and demands that they left behind. But my opinion is that she is also a people pleaser and part of why she keeps extending her trip is an avoidance of facing a showdown about how ‘unhealthy’ all this change was making her feel.

‘She says she was bullied as a child. She saw the ugliness of people. She says the generosity of strangers reassures her that people are kind. At 38 years old, she still needs that reassurance.

Just spend a morning reading how many times she references her need “to self care” and be less concerned with others. Her body is her “best friend.” Over and over she mentions being beset with fears. And, though I may be completely wrong, I can see all this anxiety, fear, stress over lockdowns, stress over return to a now business centered lifestyle, stress over Dan’s desire to settle...might just have made her continue to extend her trip...time after time...until she reached a breaking point.

I respect that others see something quite different. You see a happy confident strong young woman. Neither of us can know for sure...but, in truth...I’d love to be wrong and believe that whatever happened to Esther, that she was peaceful and happy until the very last second.

 

[patCee]

I remain hopeful there will be more news in the coming weeks. SAR do training maneouvres in the winter months and did say they will use them to conduct further searches for ED. At the very least they may be willing to publicise the areas they covered.

I would hope the French and Spanish police will also have conducted further enquiries. Some results from forensic tests of the van may also be available, even if they are not shared. Continued enquiries may also give further clues as to the direction the investigations are going.

Whether DC will continue with the ongoing social media news probably remains uncertain at the moment though I'll be surprised if he doesn't continue. He and ED have established themselves as 'influencers' (I think thats the 'in' title) and maybe more books to publish. Though I expect he'll need to have the police OK it providing their main enquiries have finished.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry, but I think there are a lot of unfair and judgemental assumptions here about DC and the relationship.

This is all getting way off track.

I agree, it’s getting a bit victim blame-y. It’d be annoying if the thread ended up being closed pending further news; it happens.