Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

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I'm most fascinated by the fascination - which I clearly share!

Occam's razor: she had a mishap in the mountains.....

Why don't we quite believe that...?

First, I will say I don't know the region - & when those who do say: she's not there - I tend to believe them

I live in an area wherein there is a particular case (Holly White Taos, NM) & folks speculate & I can say with utter certainty, living here, that: NOPE......some things just aren't realistic at all...

All the same: she probably is in the mountains .....

What niggles: those last vague posts & communications......others have posted succinctly about

That she is a grown woman who apparently takes one bell pepper, dry oats & a 'leaf lettuce' (um, one lettuce leaf....?)......I just don't know what.....a woman who cannot take care of herself at the most basic level or doesn't have respect for nature & natural laws.....

Occam's razor: she asked for fruit because she was hungry.....well - not a surprise I guess....

She strikes me as someone who did well with 'hoops': jump through them & get a prize: academics but real life was quite different.......

She doesn't seem very practical & has very poor emotional boundaries....did she meet up with the wrong person who exploited this - ?

Did she summit this same mountain again to kill herself - ?

It's a strange case....

& I have no intention on being harsh on wonderful Esther - she's a beautiful soul no matter what her choices......

I hope there's closure for those who loved her

MOO

Who has said she's not there? Spanish authorities (and I believe the French as well) said that when Spring comes, they will search again.

"No sign of her" and "weather doesn't permit a further" search != she's not there.

They are confident she didn't just fall off the trail between the Pic and any of her close-by options for shelter. They don't think she pitched a tent.

But they didn't say she was nowhere at all in the mountains - it snowed not long after she disappeared, and even more during the search.

Am I wrong? Didn't the authorities state that they'd continue in the Spring? And didn't the man who gave her a ride have the opinion that others were still up there, unfound? If it had anything to do with a glacier, all bets off as to when she'd be found.

I am more interested in her water supplies and other reasons why she might have gone off trail. There was water at the refuge (I believe it was an outdoor pipe, it not run when the temps were too cold - but should have given her water in the morning, if I understand correctly).

I would too. I also think that they were messages that were trying to placate DC - keep him happy. The 'I think I can see you' disturbs me. What if she really does 'think she can see him'? She is high up at the peak and looking down she can see figures, small tiny figures - and one looks just like Dan...

What other reason does she have to say those words? What if DC is trying to get to her, hence the numerous messages..

Are you raising a question about her general mental health? As in...she really thinks she can see him? If she were having some sort of breakdown, she might also have had very little affect, which would explain her being non-chatty (she's very chatty in her blogs). She does say she's having a good time.

I wonder if they were usually so non-chatty in terms of not inquiring what each person had been up to, after 24 hours of no communication. I would have to ask about my dogs, for example. And my partner would ask how long I thought it would take me to get to the place where I was going to sleep - and what it had been like the day before. But that's us.
 
I will say that even though we seem to go over and over the same information...usually someone comes up with a new and very interesting slant.

Something new for me to ponder was posted by RickshawFan today...why didn’t Dan give us both sides of those vital last exchanges?

What actually was said in the very short Skype call at the end? Why was he messaging her so often the day before? Why isn’t there any indication of a long conversation about the huge marketing coup of the BBC interview that just aired that day?

What if ED was having some sort of mental crisis as some of you have suggested. That would fit with some of the bizarre last quotes “might dip into France” “I think I can see you.” etc. Did she return to the same peak because she was already confused?

It would be another way to explain the strange confluence of the love language with a seeming avoidance of contact with Dan.
A couple of things:
-You can blame @IrisElizabeth for genius-ly pointing out that we don't have DC's side of conversations. Kudos.
-One of the things that interests me is not the content of the omitted contacts between DC and ED, so much as how many there were.
-I'm not sure we have a fix on any mental crisis. If there was a member of this situation having a difficult time, logically, the available candidates are either DC or ED, or both. IMO
-I believe ED might have returned to the Pic for the simple reason it had cell service, and she knew it did. She had spent the night at the Cabane with no service. The closest way to get some was up the Pic AFAIK. She may have tried to get it from right near the Hôpital (explaining what she was doing all morning on the 22nd), but if that didn't work, and she couldn't hitch to town, the Pic was a sure thing.
 
Who has said she's not there? Spanish authorities (and I believe the French as well) said that when Spring comes, they will search again.

"No sign of her" and "weather doesn't permit a further" search != she's not there.

They are confident she didn't just fall off the trail between the Pic and any of her close-by options for shelter. They don't think she pitched a tent.

But they didn't say she was nowhere at all in the mountains - it snowed not long after she disappeared, and even more during the search.
Snipped for focus. Thanks for concurring with me! IIRC the dossier concluded ED was not to be found in the mountains. I also found that conclusion to from LE statements to be way off. The formal search has been closed for the season. There's no way you can read that as "she's not on the mountain". As you know, @10ofRods a very significant percentage of searches don't result in a find. Many times, remains aren't even found. That has no relevance to whether they're on the mountain or not.
Maybe not alive and on the mountain (if they used infrared in the search), but on the mountain very likely nonetheless.

*****
I'm still back with your hypothermia/poor nutrition/low protein/dehydration/few calories axis. This was valid no matter accident, purposeful, misadventure, outside source, any possible scenario.
 
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I think it’s really valuable to go over old ground and try to find new perspectives. We either shut up shop and wait for news or re-examine aspects that we have already discussed. Already in the last 48 hrs or so we’ve had really good new points raised, based on going over old stuff.

just on the subject of poor nutrition etc raised above by RickshawFan...
Can we actually be sure that poor nutrition etc played a part? The reason I ask is because she hikes up a mountain on 2 consecutive days and in the selfie’s looks pretty good! She had been a personal trainer and was very fit... I know she asked for food and only took meagre rations on her overnight hike .. but, just wondering if we can conclude this was definitely a factor. Unless she was somehow feasting on the days when not hiking then I suppose we can. The only reason I have uncertainty is that if eating such meagre rations on a daily basis, not many would be capable of hiking up mountains daily.
 
I think it’s really valuable to go over old ground and try to find new perspectives. We either shut up shop and wait for news or re-examine aspects that we have already discussed. Already in the last 48 hrs or so we’ve had really good new points raised, based on going over old stuff.

just on the subject of poor nutrition etc raised above by RickshawFan...
Can we actually be sure that poor nutrition etc played a part? The reason I ask is because she hikes up a mountain on 2 consecutive days and in the selfie’s looks pretty good! She had been a personal trainer and was very fit... I know she asked for food and only took meagre rations on her overnight hike .. but, just wondering if we can conclude this was definitely a factor. Unless she was somehow feasting on the days when not hiking then I suppose we can. The only reason I have uncertainty is that if eating such meagre rations on a daily basis, not many would be capable of hiking up mountains daily.

I'll say upfront that @10ofRods is the person to ask about nutrition concepts. It's not my area of expertise. We had a long discussion about this whole area upthread.

From my own observations or experiences:
You might look up eating disorder profiles for the correlation between poor nutrition and excessive exercise. I'm sure we could agree that anorexics have severe nutritional deficiencies (the proximate cause for Karen Carpenter's death was potassium deficiency), but they also exercise like CRAZY.

I'm not at all saying ED had an eating disorder. My point is that extreme exercise is possible even though you are severely nutrition-compromised.

Also, ultra-distance hikers can run deficiencies of many kinds (marathon runners, too, for that matter). Your body uses up a whole lot of stuff! But, when they can, they pile the food in, because their bodies demand it. So, IME there's no necessary correlation between being highly fit and highly healthy nutrition-wise.

ED was definitely not an ultra-distance hiker (not enough miles per day over a huge number of days), but she was evidently putting out a lot of energy without replenishing her body's supplies. Per a witness, she evidently was carrying almost nothing to eat. This is a recipe for disaster most anywhere, but especially the conditions she was in: winter and solo, so there was no one out there to rescue her if her body went aground.

Note, too, that food is CALORIES. Calories are a heat-related measurement. No calories and your odds of hypothermia go up astronomically. ED was out there in WINTER.

Unfortunately, IMO sometimes people see the words "yoga" and "she's careful with what she eats", or "she looks fine" and conclude that the person is well-nourished. Those lifestyles unfortunately have nothing to do with nutritional value. They can be eating entirely the wrong thing to maintain their organisms.
 
What we don't know is how they were financing themselves, apart from some odd jobs, and if they needed to seriously think about increasing their income. With ED away they were in effect financing 2 households.

The impression is that ED was physically and emotionally attached to the way they had been living for the past 6 years and was struggling to contemplate an alternative. She had now reached a time when she was faced squarely with the reality of lockdown, along with the possibility of abandoning the freedom so necessary to her not just for the winter but settling for a more normal life that DC had proposed.

Whilst an accident is the more obvious outcome in this situation because of the practicalities involved in hiking in mountains and difficult terrain, food, equipment etc. all issues where ED had experience and knew what worked for her, it's almost too easy and makes it important to consider the alternatives. Why after all the time involved (6 years) have an accident at the moment it's time to return home. A coincidence?

It's clear that ED had been reluctant to end this trip. Sadly if she has harmed herself it is now too late to save her. If she is found in the spring searches it may be difficult to know how her life came to an end. An accident maybe, but I think it is less likely that she ran off or came to harm by another person.
 
Occam says this was likely a tragic accident at an as yet discovered location.

But....

What if Esther had a long game? A plan. Not married so no divorce required.... but still, how do you publicly leave a partner of many years, when you have upcoming books and appearances AS A COUPLE? How do you painlessly leave a partner who has had severe health issues without looking like a schmuck?

If Esther's solo trek was exactly what she said it was, she was purposefully alone, admittedly to be alone, to do it on her own. A trek she kept extending.

What if Esther decided the only way out was quietly?

Her dogs, she knew they were all in good hands. Perhaps that was more intentional than we've considered.

Maybe she loved Dan deeply but no longer felt connected to that lifestyle or the publicity of publishing that lifestyle, or the prospect of leaving that lifestyle in favor of something more traditional, less free.

Perhaps she met someone who offered an alternative.... a friend, a kindred soul... and she had occasion to day hike with the person, giving her fewer occasions to communicate with Dan, as had been her custom.

Maybe the second trip to the top was about saying goodbyes without saying goodbye, saying enough to appease people and settle her soul....

And to buy herself a few days to trek back down and scurry off to a different life....

Do I think this is what happened? No. But is it possible? Maybe.

All I know is that, if I could wish her still alive, I would.

JMO
 
What if Esther had a long game? A plan. Not married so no divorce required.... but still, how do you publicly leave a partner of many years, when you have upcoming books and appearances AS A COUPLE? How do you painlessly leave a partner who has had severe health issues without looking like a schmuck?
This was maybe her problem, she was in emotional turmoil and unable to think of anything other than what she was doing i.e. hiking and travelling around.
 
Occam says this was likely a tragic accident at an as yet discovered location.

But....

Maybe the second trip to the top was about saying goodbyes without saying goodbye, saying enough to appease people and settle her soul....

And to buy herself a few days to trek back down and scurry off to a different life....

Do I think this is what happened? No. But is it possible? Maybe.

All I know is that, if I could wish her still alive, I would.

JMO

Snipped for focus.

Reasons given to dispute the theory of Esther embarking on a different life were no digital evidence of ATM use, etc. and no reported sightings of her.

It's possible her new life is funded by someone else.
It's possible, when masked for Covid and covered by winter clothing, she may not be recognized.

But
IIRC, the main reason this theory was abandoned was Esther wouldn't put her family through the pain of a chosen, secretive disappearance.
 
Snipped for focus.

Reasons given to dispute the theory of Esther embarking on a different life were no digital evidence of ATM use, etc. and no reported sightings of her.

It's possible her new life is funded by someone else.
It's possible, when masked for Covid and covered by winter clothing, she may not be recognized.

But
IIRC, the main reason this theory was abandoned was Esther wouldn't put her family through the pain of a chosen, secretive disappearance.

I agree. But perhaps, in her original plan, she intended to notify her family in short order, never expecting the publicity...and then didn't know what to do...

But yes, walking away from one life into another, not likely.

But people do confusing things all the time.

People left alone with their thoughts can convince themselves that things make sense.

Her last two weeks could've been spent grappling with an exit plan, finding solace in chance encounters and gifts of food, signs of the goodness of humanity, for instance. Her journey, about separation. She could have succumbed to accidental or intentional injuries miles and miles from her expected location.

Or maybe she was making her way to the glacier...

I can't fathom the pain of not knowing what happened to her, for those who loved her most.

JMO
 
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I think it’s really valuable to go over old ground and try to find new perspectives. We either shut up shop and wait for news or re-examine aspects that we have already discussed. Already in the last 48 hrs or so we’ve had really good new points raised, based on going over old stuff.

just on the subject of poor nutrition etc raised above by RickshawFan...
Can we actually be sure that poor nutrition etc played a part? The reason I ask is because she hikes up a mountain on 2 consecutive days and in the selfie’s looks pretty good! She had been a personal trainer and was very fit... I know she asked for food and only took meagre rations on her overnight hike .. but, just wondering if we can conclude this was definitely a factor. Unless she was somehow feasting on the days when not hiking then I suppose we can. The only reason I have uncertainty is that if eating such meagre rations on a daily basis, not many would be capable of hiking up mountains daily.

Since I teach and research these things for a living, let me say that protein malnutrition is not always visible.

People all over the world get enough calories every day - but protein is irreplaceable in the diet. The body does not store it except in muscles, which require a certain metabolic process to break down and use. So, when the body is low on protein, there's a lag between that event and the body's response - some people are chronically in a state of low protein.

About 50% of the body's protein is used by the brain. To put it briefly, short term protein deficiency can cause deficiencies in neurotransmitters. The effect can be minor or marginal, but from my perspective, subtle differences in brain functioning, combined with other issues in a human (such as being in stressful terrain, having to do more planning than usual, engaging in strenuous physical activity) can reduce the ability to respond quickly or adequately in an emergency. Brain fog.

It has nothing to do with how she looks or whether she's smiling. Short term protein deficiency doesn't change how a person looks and for most of us, smiling is reflexive. As to whether Esther may have eaten a better diet at other times in her life, one would surely think that she did. She has earlier photos showing good musculature.

We can't conclude anything here on this topic or practically any other topic regarding the minds of other people.

But I regard what I know about her diet as suggestive that she could have been affected (serotonin and dopamine in particular). Keep in mind that different humans are ready serotonin producers (they don't get depressed or anxious as easily as others) and that all humans need protein to produce their neurotransmitters - no exceptions. Body builders and wrestlers who fast to cut weight for various reasons know this. People adapt to the mental conditions of a low protein diet (I know I did, but my mental performance when protein deprived is definitely affected). If it is true that Esther had CFS and suffered from depression/anxiety, well, one hypothesis about all three of these conditions involves brain function - and specific proteins. Unfortunately for CFS sufferers, it seems that their own bodies may be elevating certain inflammatory proteins instead of using them properly as other people's bodies do. (Too much for me to get into here).

This is why school breakfast programs have helped many children perform better in school and on tests. I know that if I don't have something protein-containing before walking into the classroom, my ability to speak is mildly affected (Foxpro protein in the brain isn't quite up to par). Sure, I can still function, but if I want to do my best, I make sure I have some sort of protein before work. I have had no protein for about 14 hours right now and I can tell a difference. That's too soon for my body to respond by starting to break down my muscles (big yikes - not good) but it's plenty long enough for me to notice differences in my thinking. I'm typing on WS, not going into the classroom or working on my thorny research problem.

One reason I study missing persons in the wilderness and a main reason I post here is that I think people should know that a balanced diet is essential. Lacking 1-2 amino acids might not have much immediate effect, but lacking nearly all of them in a diet can definitely affect behavior, including short term. If, just as an hypothesis. Esther had been on a lower protein diet for a month or neglected to combine proteins in order to get all of her amino acids, then yes - her thinking might have changed. If a protein like Foxpro was downregulated by both solitude and diet, well...I can point you to data on why that increases chances of wilderness misadventure. We'll never be able to prove anything about the thinking of dead people - but the statistics based purely on behavior (going missing) and subsequent accident or death are pretty convincing, to me anyway.

Whether or not this happened to Esther, we may never know but it's worth remembering that smiling, happy-looking people can still be off their game mentally when it comes to crucial decision making and protein needs of the brain.

I just realized I am 15.5 hours out from my last protein intake (and it took me way longer than usual to make that calculation), which is why I feel "lazy" and disinclined to go find protein. I have no sensation of hunger, because I've fasted long enough to lose that (I was hungry when I went to bed last night, no hunger this morning).

My main point is that the human who is suffering these changes will not notice it, because it's hard enough to notice fluctuations in our mental states when in optimum health, nutrition and otherwise. Every time a neuron tries to reach another neuron to communicate...it needs protein. Sometimes we need that process to happen quickly and seamlessly.

You've probably all heard the term "hangry." It's a real thing. Serotonin again. You may also have heard that depression is worse in the morning (yep, serotonin, again).

A half cup serving of raw oats has about half a gram of glycine (one of the most-used amino acids, essential to brain function, mood, sleep, alertness). We need at least 5 grams a day. In fact, some studies say we could use a lot more than that (up to 90 grams has been put into experimental use - and there seem to be benefits, not drawbacks). Esther would have needed a lot of oats. No protein in the lettuce. I can't remember exactly what she was said to be carrying in terms of oats - or even if it was actually oats, I need to get some protein.

(10 cups of oats?)

Or, she could have eaten 600 calories of smoked salmon or canned tuna...or one whole package of dry gelatin mix...or taken 1-2 tsp of a supplement.

(That's just an example of one amino acid - there are others, the brain needs all of them).
 
Thanks @10ofRods, I knew I could count on you.

I want to throw in here, too, from my experience....
You can get all the "right" nutrients correct on paper and construct a diet using that data. Using protein as an example, that doesn't mean your specific body is getting enough protein. It might not be able to process the type of protein you're giving it. That's an individual thing.

This is about bioavailability for a person, not a data set.

Alot of "healthy eating" regimens are statistical, not individual.

I get @10ofRods brain fog if I go on a vegetarian diet (I was vegetarian for years). No matter the theory of combining proteins for the right "mix", my organism cannot actually survive on vegetarianism. After I drove up to a traffic light one day and didn't know what to do with traffic lights, the doc made me promise never ever ever to go vegetarian again. My brain specifically needs animal protein.

When I'm getting foggish, I have to eat meat. That's not what the books or websites say, but that's the truth. Things that are bioavailable in general does not mean they are bioavailable to a specific individual.

That's an additional reason why IMO, in this case, it's important to focus on food. Witnesses made food an issue. I don't think we should let go that food may well have played myriad roles in this case.
 
"...One reason I study missing persons in the wilderness and a main reason I post here is that I think people should know that a balanced diet is essential...
You may also have heard that depression is worse in the morning (yep, serotonin, again)."
Snipped for focus.

@10ofRods
So much time taken and effort expended by dear you to provide us with this most generous gift of valuable information. You may just have improved the lives of all who read this thread on WS.
You have certainly helped me.
Thank you.
 
Did the search start on Thursday or Friday morning?

I guess I’m still trying to reconcile the ‘typical behavior” of Esther as described by Dan...checking in multiple times a day, anxious to get home to him, doesn’t take chances or stray off trails, always let’s others know her plans....with the Esther of Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday...when he’s getting nothing from her...and still he waits.

I’m not postulating this as blame...only that it is a piece of the puzzle that doesn’t fit. Both of them are acting out of character. Or the characters that have been presented to us.

Add to that the fact that we know Dan was accustomed to sending her many texts a day, seemingly micro managing her trip from his armchair. . Did he suddenly stop trying or texting when he got not one reply in those days? Not reacting to no replies does not seem to fit his previous behavior.

Also, they had hiked in that region before. Although there are spots where there is no cell service, it appears that there are not...three days...worth of hiking areas where no cell service would not once be found. Dan even tells us of proximity to several roads. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but if she was so consistent with all the behaviors he described, surely she could have accessed WIFI fairly easily.

And Dan would have known this.

So the extended wait of his inactivity just puzzles me. What was he doing in the days prior to launching the search? I know he must have been frantic. But the Dan of all those messages...would he just sit and wait by the silent phone?

I’ve wondered what I might do...before taking the big step of calling in the search and rescue teams.

First I’d call local LE and ask for a wellness check at the van. Then I think I’d drive to the van, to the area myself.

Even if I didn’t have the mountaineering experience Dan has to hike the area, I’d have to go there and see if she was in the van avoiding me..or sick...or just refusing again to come home. He found a way to get there after the official search began, so he could have found a way.

I could be all wrong...but this is one of the things that just brings me here again and again. Something is off.

My opinions only, as always.
 
Even if I didn’t have the mountaineering experience Dan has to hike the area, I’d have to go there and see if she was in the van avoiding me..or sick...or just refusing again to come home. He found a way to get there after the official search began, so he could have found a way.
This - a situation that has always puzzled me.
 
Since I teach and research these things for a living, let me say that protein malnutrition is not always visible.

People all over the world get enough calories every day - but protein is irreplaceable in the diet. The body does not store it except in muscles, which require a certain metabolic process to break down and use. So, when the body is low on protein, there's a lag between that event and the body's response - some people are chronically in a state of low protein.

About 50% of the body's protein is used by the brain. To put it briefly, short term protein deficiency can cause deficiencies in neurotransmitters. The effect can be minor or marginal, but from my perspective, subtle differences in brain functioning, combined with other issues in a human (such as being in stressful terrain, having to do more planning than usual, engaging in strenuous physical activity) can reduce the ability to respond quickly or adequately in an emergency. Brain fog.

It has nothing to do with how she looks or whether she's smiling. Short term protein deficiency doesn't change how a person looks and for most of us, smiling is reflexive. As to whether Esther may have eaten a better diet at other times in her life, one would surely think that she did. She has earlier photos showing good musculature.

We can't conclude anything here on this topic or practically any other topic regarding the minds of other people.

But I regard what I know about her diet as suggestive that she could have been affected (serotonin and dopamine in particular). Keep in mind that different humans are ready serotonin producers (they don't get depressed or anxious as easily as others) and that all humans need protein to produce their neurotransmitters - no exceptions. Body builders and wrestlers who fast to cut weight for various reasons know this. People adapt to the mental conditions of a low protein diet (I know I did, but my mental performance when protein deprived is definitely affected). If it is true that Esther had CFS and suffered from depression/anxiety, well, one hypothesis about all three of these conditions involves brain function - and specific proteins. Unfortunately for CFS sufferers, it seems that their own bodies may be elevating certain inflammatory proteins instead of using them properly as other people's bodies do. (Too much for me to get into here).

This is why school breakfast programs have helped many children perform better in school and on tests. I know that if I don't have something protein-containing before walking into the classroom, my ability to speak is mildly affected (Foxpro protein in the brain isn't quite up to par). Sure, I can still function, but if I want to do my best, I make sure I have some sort of protein before work. I have had no protein for about 14 hours right now and I can tell a difference. That's too soon for my body to respond by starting to break down my muscles (big yikes - not good) but it's plenty long enough for me to notice differences in my thinking. I'm typing on WS, not going into the classroom or working on my thorny research problem.

One reason I study missing persons in the wilderness and a main reason I post here is that I think people should know that a balanced diet is essential. Lacking 1-2 amino acids might not have much immediate effect, but lacking nearly all of them in a diet can definitely affect behavior, including short term. If, just as an hypothesis. Esther had been on a lower protein diet for a month or neglected to combine proteins in order to get all of her amino acids, then yes - her thinking might have changed. If a protein like Foxpro was downregulated by both solitude and diet, well...I can point you to data on why that increases chances of wilderness misadventure. We'll never be able to prove anything about the thinking of dead people - but the statistics based purely on behavior (going missing) and subsequent accident or death are pretty convincing, to me anyway.

Whether or not this happened to Esther, we may never know but it's worth remembering that smiling, happy-looking people can still be off their game mentally when it comes to crucial decision making and protein needs of the brain.

I just realized I am 15.5 hours out from my last protein intake (and it took me way longer than usual to make that calculation), which is why I feel "lazy" and disinclined to go find protein. I have no sensation of hunger, because I've fasted long enough to lose that (I was hungry when I went to bed last night, no hunger this morning).

My main point is that the human who is suffering these changes will not notice it, because it's hard enough to notice fluctuations in our mental states when in optimum health, nutrition and otherwise. Every time a neuron tries to reach another neuron to communicate...it needs protein. Sometimes we need that process to happen quickly and seamlessly.

You've probably all heard the term "hangry." It's a real thing. Serotonin again. You may also have heard that depression is worse in the morning (yep, serotonin, again).

A half cup serving of raw oats has about half a gram of glycine (one of the most-used amino acids, essential to brain function, mood, sleep, alertness). We need at least 5 grams a day. In fact, some studies say we could use a lot more than that (up to 90 grams has been put into experimental use - and there seem to be benefits, not drawbacks). Esther would have needed a lot of oats. No protein in the lettuce. I can't remember exactly what she was said to be carrying in terms of oats - or even if it was actually oats, I need to get some protein.

(10 cups of oats?)

Or, she could have eaten 600 calories of smoked salmon or canned tuna...or one whole package of dry gelatin mix...or taken 1-2 tsp of a supplement.

(That's just an example of one amino acid - there are others, the brain needs all of them).
Thanks for all this info .. really interesting and useful
 
Thanks @10ofRods, I knew I could count on you.

I want to throw in here, too, from my experience....
You can get all the "right" nutrients correct on paper and construct a diet using that data. Using protein as an example, that doesn't mean your specific body is getting enough protein. It might not be able to process the type of protein you're giving it. That's an individual thing.

This is about bioavailability for a person, not a data set.

Alot of "healthy eating" regimens are statistical, not individual.

I get @10ofRods brain fog if I go on a vegetarian diet (I was vegetarian for years). No matter the theory of combining proteins for the right "mix", my organism cannot actually survive on vegetarianism. After I drove up to a traffic light one day and didn't know what to do with traffic lights, the doc made me promise never ever ever to go vegetarian again. My brain specifically needs animal protein.

When I'm getting foggish, I have to eat meat. That's not what the books or websites say, but that's the truth. Things that are bioavailable in general does not mean they are bioavailable to a specific individual.

That's an additional reason why IMO, in this case, it's important to focus on food. Witnesses made food an issue. I don't think we should let go that food may well have played myriad roles in this case.

Food is certainly a recurring theme..

Vigo
Laura
Frenchwoman who commented on Facebook .. I seem to remember she said Esther rubbed her stomach

in each case Esther has either asked for or been given food
 
Did the search start on Thursday or Friday morning?

I guess I’m still trying to reconcile the ‘typical behavior” of Esther as described by Dan...checking in multiple times a day, anxious to get home to him, doesn’t take chances or stray off trails, always let’s others know her plans....with the Esther of Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday...when he’s getting nothing from her...and still he waits.

I’m not postulating this as blame...only that it is a piece of the puzzle that doesn’t fit. Both of them are acting out of character. Or the characters that have been presented to us.

Add to that the fact that we know Dan was accustomed to sending her many texts a day, seemingly micro managing her trip from his armchair. . Did he suddenly stop trying or texting when he got not one reply in those days? Not reacting to no replies does not seem to fit his previous behavior.

Also, they had hiked in that region before. Although there are spots where there is no cell service, it appears that there are not...three days...worth of hiking areas where no cell service would not once be found. Dan even tells us of proximity to several roads. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but if she was so consistent with all the behaviors he described, surely she could have accessed WIFI fairly easily.

And Dan would have known this.

So the extended wait of his inactivity just puzzles me. What was he doing in the days prior to launching the search? I know he must have been frantic. But the Dan of all those messages...would he just sit and wait by the silent phone?

I’ve wondered what I might do...before taking the big step of calling in the search and rescue teams.

First I’d call local LE and ask for a wellness check at the van. Then I think I’d drive to the van, to the area myself.

Even if I didn’t have the mountaineering experience Dan has to hike the area, I’d have to go there and see if she was in the van avoiding me..or sick...or just refusing again to come home. He found a way to get there after the official search began, so he could have found a way.

I could be all wrong...but this is one of the things that just brings me here again and again. Something is off.

My opinions only, as always.
It is puzzling, even more so since we learn about the messages he was sending her prior to the disappearance. It appears that there was a gap of 2 or 3 days in which nothing is done. I would like to know about the dogs and were any in the farmhouse with DC at the time of the disappearance?

it seems clear that Esther is on his mind a lot up until her disappearance.. indicated by the messaging between them. He knows she is hiking alone in the mountains so to go even 24 hrs with no communication would surely make him anxious that she may have fallen / broken limb and need rescuing. the only reason I can think of for inactivity would be if they argued and she’d demanded space, or something like that.
 
Snipped for focus.

@10ofRods
So much time taken and effort expended by dear you to provide us with this most generous gift of valuable information. You may just have improved the lives of all who read this thread on WS.
You have certainly helped me.
Thank you.

Thank you! I have data on hundreds and hundreds of students (their diets...oh my gosh...) And I do think there's data to show that they perform better on tests when they've had breakfast, ha.

Didn't our mothers all tell us that? Mine did.
 
My main point is that the human who is suffering these changes will not notice it, because it's hard enough to notice fluctuations in our mental states when in optimum health, nutrition and otherwise. Every time a neuron tries to reach another neuron to communicate...it needs protein. Sometimes we need that process to happen quickly and seamlessly.
snipped and BBM for focus

The information below is snipped from my post #657 in Thread #3 as it bears repeating here. I believe the WP article could apply to ED's situation, IMO....

"Thank you @10ofRods - you have brought some tremendous human biology information to this discussion. I want to share a Washington Post article about Jim Fixx as I was not aware of him and his story until your post. It is an incredibly insightful article and there is a section comparing anorexia to obligate running, which Jim Fixx did."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...o-death/681bd977-8295-4d4a-802c-bbfd54684be5/
 

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