***SPOILER ALERT*** Imperfect Justice by Jeff Ashton - CONTENT DISCUSSION

[2goldfish]

The jurors were just plain lazy and greedy. . I bet that while the prosecution was showing them photos of the remains of Caylee and the duct-tape, they were dreaming of the foods they'd eat when they finally get home or their after trial perks They didn't care. They just didn't care. They are no better than KC herself.

it was very poignant for me that ashton said when LDB showed the two last pics of caylee, he was stunned to see that they didnt react at all....that was exactly how I felt when I heard they didnt react....and he told himself the same thing I told myself, that some people just...hide their emotions well.

contrast this, mind you, with the emma barker trial...(emma was murdered by her mother stacey barker and this went to trial just before anthony did) the jurors were very very upset, so much so that during deliberations one was seen being helped along the hallway by others because she was so distraught...because that happened just before OCA trial* I thought of it a lot and I thought of how the anthony jurors seemed to almost never show any emotion yet here I was a thousand and some miles away, not even seeing the photos of poor caylee's remains and bawling my eyes out more days that not...well, I told myself, I am over sensitive, I have always been told so, not always in a complimentary way...

also ashton says at one point, a juror, I forget which, ran out of water and held the bottle up to a court worker and shook it at him, as if the court official was his butler...

ashton said the same things we'd been saying, that in order to get a jury who never heard of the case, you had to get a jury that did not care about the world around them....the people who care already knew of the case and had an opinion....they were severely crippled from the word go.

mind yall, I am not directly quoting any of this, so if I have misrecalled something or mis-stated, blame me and not JA

* and that jury did their job admirably...barker was charged with second degree as I recall and the jury came back with 1st degree murder and gave her something like 60 to life.

 

[rose222]

I've always been told that I'm too sensitive, 2goldfish. Some people believe sensitivity to be a vice but I disagree. My heart is wide open to the joy and sorrow of this world.

I'm glad that the Emma Barker jurors did their job. The KC jury is what is wrong with the world. The worst part is that they don't believe or even know what they did wrong. Just like KC.

 

[JusticeSeeker1960]

I'm really glad that Jeff has come out and said that he didn't believe the death penalty should have been reinstated.

I think that was the problem all along for the jury, they didn't believe in it and certainly not in this case.

And I have to agree, I never thought that the death penalty should have been an option, no matter if it was justly deserved.

No death penalty and no Lyons, no Finnell, no Bolin, no death penalty motions, no opportunity for Baez and Mason to take the high moral ground. It put the prosecution in a dangerous position and probably lost them the trial. Lesson learned for everyone I think.

I don't think it can be overstated in how important Bolin was in helping pick the jury.

Nope, I don't believe for one minute the death penalty was the jury's problem. Pure, unadulterated, laziness was there problem! I'm with JA, they sure were enthusiastic on what movie they were to watch or what restaurant they were dining at....but, ask for a second look at a piece of duct tape,,,,just too strenuous for them! They wanted the trial over, they wanted to go home, they did not care there was a tiny baby scattered through the woods with animals chewing on her bones!

They didn't care that the defendants lawyer was lying! They didn't have any idea that Casey had just made her poor father relive Caylee's death all over again just weeks before the trial....tell them to read JA's book & they'll see why GA was answering the questions like he was!

You stoop pretty low to accuse your father of molesting you but when you fabricate a story that includes the possibility of him molesting & killing his grandaughter that he so loved.....dispicable!!! She'll have to answer for this one day......one day :furious::furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

 

[Hope4More]

Welldone and Nicky, et.al-

You're welcome. :heartbeat:

Thanks to WS for providing a place to share JA's book with people who still care about what happened to Caylee.

 

[Hope4More]

the bombshells ashton dropped about casey 4.0 and that just make it even more obvious, LDB's carefully done OS that literally, everytime OCA hit the end of the hallway, she popped out with a new lie.

AND THE JURY FELL FOR IT.

IMO, the jury didn't fall for OCA's lies. In a weird kind of way, even THAT would have been more reassuring than what they did, because it would mean that they actually thought about something, anything, that came up during the trial.

After reading JA's account, it is painfully obvious that the jury paid no real attention whatsoever. They apparently kept waiting for the single, "one piece of evidence" (straight out of juror 3's mouth) that would explain everything to them. The when, how, and why and and where of Caylee's murder,all wrapped up in one piece of evidence and explained to them in single syllable words they could understand.

I get why some are finding peace from JA's book. He makes it clear that mistakes were made in his case, yes, and that multiple Ants either committed perjury or came awfully darn close, yes, and that JB is a dishonest slimeball who crossed over the line countless times, yes.... on and on.

BUT, what I hear JA saying is that while all those things matter individually and combined, even if none of them had been at play, the verdict would almost certainly have been the same, given this jury. Nothing else could have been done to make it different.

 

[Talina]

BMom- we can't even give them that pathetic excuse, unfortunately. This is a jury who at DAY THREE was whining to the judge about not liking the entertainment being provided and asking when they could go home.

And on Day One weren't even visibly moved by photos of a skeletanized infant's body. That was, to me, a telling indication that this jury was not the right jury makeup for a trial such as this one.

IMO

 

[Intermezzo]

The evidence would be the pool ladder and the cadaver dog hit by the pool.



I;m thinking it works. She cholroforms her kid, then wraps duct tape around her face to suffocate her. Maybe that didn't work as fast as she wanted or maybe she just wanted to be sure, or she didn't want Caylee waking up and crying out. So (or then) she puts her in the pool to make sure.

I think, even with duct tape, one could drown. Water could seep in and there would be no way to cough it out. I just find that little detail about GA's upper body only being wet, interesting, like she knew what it would be like.

Drugging and then drowning was one of my initial theories. But knowing casey, who is good at small details that make a story more believable, I can see her making it up as well and simply chloroforming her child and then suffocating her with tape.

Or, she could have drugged and then drowned he and placed the tape on later to make it seem like an abduction? In case Caylee was found?


Either way, I don't think it would be that hard to scoop the lifeless body of a two year old out of a pool, when she just died in your hands.

I read a more fuller quote from JB. he says once his side of the story come out, we will hear the truth. Except, I don't think anyone really wants to hear his side of the story. We've heard enough from that gas bag.

ETA: Loved JA's statement about karma on JVM. I hope he's right.

bbm
So do I....
OCA also said to the Dr's Caylee did not accidentally drown
OCA said to Dr's that George murdered Caylee......
She also says she left so soundly on the morning of June 16th that George must have drugged her...
She also told them that Caylee that George changed Caylee into different clothing...Well we know Caylee was wearing the Big Trouble comes in Small Packages T-shirt...a T-shirt that Cindy never purchased and had never seen before and she does the laundry...

Is Casey adding her bits of truth to her newest stories, and then submitting someone else for her?

 

[Talina]

bbm
So do I....
OCA also said to the Dr's Caylee did not accidentally drown
OCA said to Dr's that George murdered Caylee......

The first thing that ran through my mind when I read that in the book was that there was no way this was true. If it were, she would have jumped all over that quickly so that she could once and for all get rid of her dad. What a perfect way to facilitate her goal of getting her dad out of her mom and her lives. She didn't say it on June 16 because that is not what happened.

IMO

 

[Insomnia Momma]

bbm
So do I....
OCA also said to the Dr's Caylee did not accidentally drown
OCA said to Dr's that George murdered Caylee......

Honestly I think FCA couldn't have done that. At her height (my height also) no way could I stand next to an above ground pool and grab anything, even getting my shirt wet. Maybe a beach ball on the very edge since it would be above the water line but anything else no way.

I think she knew how it would look because they had that pool for a long time, she has seen what it looks like when GA previously had to get something out of the pool near the edge. Or, it was just good story telling, which we all know she excels at. JMHO!

 

[2goldfish]

IMO, the jury didn't fall for OCA's lies. In a weird kind of way, even THAT would have been more reassuring than what they did, because it would mean that they actually thought about something, anything, that came up during the trial.

I agree with you, and maybe on my end it would be more accurate to say that IMO they didnt fall for her lies, but they bought what she was selling, they fell for what she wanted....which was that they got so gosh durn confused that they refused to consider anything at all.

and before the 5th of july of 2011 I would have never, ever, ever believed 12 such moronic people could exist, let alone be all in the same room together, forgetting there was a murdered 2 year old they were supposed to consider.

ugh these jurors :banghead:

 

[Hoodie]

Kindled it last night. It bothers me how the newly developing forensics-Vaas and the hairbands-was essentially bullied out of court because it sounded nerdish and silly-when it is very cutting edge. In my opinion.
Heartbreaking to read the depth of casey's lies and Cindy's denial.
Bless you Jeff and your team!

 

[2goldfish]

And on Day One weren't even visibly moved by photos of a skeletanized infant's body. That was, to me, a telling indication that this jury was not the right jury makeup for a trial such as this one.

IMO

ITA and more than that, people like that dont belong on any jury at all IMO. no heart no brains.

not everyone is sensitive like me, I fully get that. my husband has long since resigned to hugging me when I am crying about something (such as yesterday when I burst into tears over the pic in ahston's book of someone sifting through dirt to find pieces of caylee) and shaking his head (affectionately) cause he isnt like me....BUT. he would have absolutely showed a reaction to two photos such as LDB showed in her OS. he would not have cried like me but the flinch would have absolutely been there. and believe me when I say that while my husband is a good person, he's one of the least emotional people I've ever known.

 

[kaki]

that was prolly the hardest part for ashton writing it, and it was certainly the hardest part for me reading it....going over all the hard work, the perfectly researched evidence, the wonderful testimony, and then remembering that it was ALL FOR NOTHING because not one ...NOT. EVEN. ONE! juror was able to understand it! they discounted EVERYTHING!! the witnesses and SA might as well all have been charlie brown teachers saying WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH for 6 weeks!! :banghead:

the bombshells ashton dropped about casey 4.0 and that just make it even more obvious, LDB's carefully done OS that literally, everytime OCA hit the end of the hallway, she popped out with a new lie.

AND THE JURY FELL FOR IT.

I wonder how they feel, letting a murderer go free basically just because the murderer SAID so.

I just finished the book and enjoyed reading it ... but the above comment you made kept going through my head.. the YEARS of work, the research, the trial prep, the piles of evidence, the huge expense... and the jury just dismissed it like it was nothing. They chose to believe Baez and his idiotic opening statement that he failed to provide one shred of evidence for.

When they showed the pic of caylee in life and as she was found in the woods he said the jury didn't react.. no emotions. Wow... that had to be a powerful moment.. and nothing from these people! I would have had tears running down my face. What in the H is wrong with them???

In some ways it was painful to read the book and go back to the trial.. to the day of the verdict. Ashton said he was very confident of a guilty verdict ..especially given the short amount of time they deliberated and them not asking to see ANY evidence or ask any questions.. he said in the book that a not guilty verdict with this kind of deliberation is almost unheard of.

When he describes how he felt when the verdict came in ... It brought you right back into the courtroom with him. You can just feel his pain and disappointment.... and shock.

On a brighter note.. "Unearned arrogance"....I loved that! :great:

 

[otto]

The first memory I have of the drowning story was early on when Cindy visited Casey in jail. Cindy scoffed that people were suggesting Casey drowned Cayley and Casey said something about people being so stupid, not to listen to them.

I really enjoy the comments about Ashton's view of Baez. I guess the upside of Florida law is that even the prosecutor can "tell all" after the murder trial is over and done. What I don't understand is why Harvard has Baez as a guest speaker. The person described by Ashton does not mesh with someone worthy of lecturing at a law school. One would hope that harvard isn't going to start putting out Baezes.

 

[Intermezzo]

Honestly I think FCA couldn't have done that. At her height (my height also) no way could I stand next to an above ground pool and grab anything, even getting my shirt wet. Maybe a beach ball on the very edge since it would be above the water line but anything else no way.

I think she knew how it would look because they had that pool for a long time, she has seen what it looks like when GA previously had to get something out of the pool near the edge. Or, it was just good story telling, which we all know she excels at. JMHO!

true...at the beginning, for a brief moment, I thought Caylee could have drowned accidentally. With this new update from Casey I was thinking she could have been standing on something as she leaned over the pool.

but still the duct tape on Caylee is the most damning evidence..IMO

 

[Insomnia Momma]

A little tidbit about Ashton, he is on his 3rd marriage and he has 4 grown children and he and his wife have adopted 2 young children. He seems to really enjoy and love kids. He also said that Linda and Frank both, also, have children of a "tender age" at home.

He also said he caught AF's cold that she had during jury selection and even though she had it for a few days he kept the darn cough for a month

I really needed some of these tidbits thrown in to break up the mess of emotions that was running through me while reading this yesterday.

 

[Hope4More]

bbm

She also says she left so soundly on the morning of June 16th that George must have drugged her...

Is Casey adding her bits of truth to her newest stories, and then submitting someone else for her?

wow. That statement hadn't struck me in the way you see it, but yep, she was playing her standard twisted game of saying a slice of what happened (she drugged Caylee) but burying the tidbit in layers of distortion and more lies.

Another example- when she said she knew Caylee was close by because she could feel it, and a mother knows, etc.

How sick is that.

 

[Intermezzo]

The first memory I have of the drowning story was early on when Cindy visited Casey in jail. Cindy scoffed that people were suggesting Casey drowned Cayley and Casey said something about people being so stupid, not to listen to them.

I really enjoy the comments about Ashton's view of Baez. I guess the upside of Florida law is that even the prosecutor can "tell all" after the murder trial is over and done. What I don't understand is why Harvard has Baez as a guest speaker. The person described by Ashton does not mesh with someone lecturing at a law school.

bbm
I am not sure that it is Florida Law
When JA was writing this book he was no longer a Prosecutor, he had retired

Linda Burdick, Frank George who are still working for the State and State Attorney Lawson Lamar have not made any further comments since the trial.

 

[Intermezzo]

wow. That statement hadn't struck me in the way you see it, but yep, she was playing her standard twisted game of saying a slice of what happened (she drugged Caylee) but burying the tidbit in layers of distortion and more lies.

Another example- when she said she knew Caylee was close by because she could feel it, and a mother knows, etc.

How sick is that.

Wow...my thought process hadn't reached that point yet...with the drugging story.

Casey says George drugged her....but is she really saying she drugged Caylee with a twist to the story?

 

[otto]

The first thing that ran through my mind when I read that in the book was that there was no way this was true. If it were, she would have jumped all over that quickly so that she could once and for all get rid of her dad. What a perfect way to facilitate her goal of getting her dad out of her mom and her lives. She didn't say it on June 16 because that is not what happened.

IMO

There's a very good chance that Cayley was murdered in the car because Casey had plans wth TonE and didn't want to deal with her parents.