State rests rebuttal case- thread #163

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I agree with you. I can see how this happened with Dr. Horn. He performs an average of 200-300 autopsies a year with the assistance of staff. He performed this autopsy almost 5 years ago. He is required to render an opinion based on his clinical judgement. Over time, that opinion may change slightly.

IMO, Detective Flores, the real Hero in all of this, is very detailed oriented and knows every aspect of the investigation. I think he could recite from memory all the details in this case. IMO, the DT was trying to poke holes in the investigation conducted. They did not succeed.

If the DT truly thought that the manner of death was different than what was testified to, they would have spent more tax payer money on it. They did not see the need. That should say something. JMV

One thing that Det. Flores said on the stand last week that made me cringe, especially since the Defense thinks that they have already tripped him up earlier in the trial, but when he was on the stand just the other day, in answer to a question about items being in Travis' attic, he replied as though he had climbed up there and looked, when in actuality, another officer had climbed up there and looked and informed Det. Flores. Again, it might not be noteworthy at all, but I had a little cringe when that came out.
 
I'm assuming an orange jump suit cuffed. ooooohhh I can't wait. :jail:

I hoping someone might know the answer to this:

Once JA is convicted, does she return for the penalty phase in her street clothes or will she be wearing her jail garb and shackles?
 
A look into the mind of Arias



Till Death Do Us Part

Roses are red
and Violets are blue
After one meeting
I'm ObSeSsEd with you

I packed up my rental
with my gun and my knife
Gonna convince you to
make me your wife

A "surprise" little visit
and you scream "Go Away!"
but, ME and MY LOVE
are here to stay

I turned up the music
and locked up the pet
You're gonna love me
OR you're gonna regret

Pose in the shower
Like a good little boy
I'm the photographer
You are my toy

A shot to the head
you dropped to the floor
But, I'm not finished
I want more!

Crawling to the sink
on your hands and knees
Little do you know,
This is just a tease

I'm filled with Horror,
Lust and Rage
with a slice to the heart
I'm setting the stage

I move very swift
As I "capture" time
Gashing & slashing
I wield twenty nine

You don't love me
I'm just your *advertiser censored*
Try to flee, Travis
head for the door...

This is it,
You're close to the end
I am your nightmare
Never your friend

I pull back your head
and slash your vein
now suffer and feel
ALL of MY pain

The roses are DEAD
and the ribbons are blue
It took sixty-two
seconds to murder you.

I'm a *advertiser censored*?
A 3-hole wonder?
Look whose buried
six feet under...

I'm in prison
locked away
The trials begun
But, I'll have my say

I'll scam and lie
Play the victim role
Drag you through mud
you're a deviant soul

I'm in a FoG
I don't know
I won't let the prosecutor
steal the show

Starving for attention
after 19 days
I can't tell the truth
I'm 50 Shades Of Craze

Pure & innocent
I have the perfect excuse
I am a woman who
cries domestic abuse

The Irises are cold
and your grandmother is too
Do you think she knows
who slaughtered you?

I'll fool the world
I'll be acquitted, you'll see
Back in society
and then I'm free.
__________________
"This life is a beautiful life. A life that is all the more beautiful when we find someone of like mind, heart and spirit to share it with." ~ Travis Alexander
 
No offense taken. We're all in the same boat here, just trying to figure things out without high-definition photos or input from the people we'd like to ask.

I certainly could be mistaken. On most of the photos I put a question mark. I would have gone wrong sooo many times here without other posters' corrections. But when your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail. ;)

<respectfully snipped>

The autopsy photo is of the right torso. If those aren't footprints, what are they and why are there so many of them? Questions, questions.

I believe the marks on the torso are a combination of lividity, decomposing flesh, and blood that dried and started flaking. I think the dark, flaky spot is too small for a footprint. I think it is just blood from the nearby wounds.

But you gave us something to think about.
 
What? Someone thought "harvesting" meant removing organs from the living? As in "not brain dead?" I don't think anyone was advocating that!

But like I said earlier, you cannot harvest organs from someone who is put to death. A person needs to have a beating heart, and no brain activity.

Yes, someone was.
 
:seeya: Could the shoe prints be from the roomies when they found Travis?

-or-

Since Jodi had her "ninja story" in her back pocket, maybe she put on a pair of shoes and walked around to make it appear there were 2 people?

Travis was not found until 5 days after his death. I would imagine that all of the blood had dried by the time he was found. If so, then there would be no shoeprints from anyone walking into the room after Travis was found. Also, most people would not walk through blood no matter if it was wet or dried.

MOO
 
Rose, I realize Flores is not a medical man. However, he said Horn told him the shot was first. Flores even reported this in legal proceedings. Horn repeatedly denies ever speaking to Flores. I think Horn's written report is ambiguous and I question "who said what when." I don't expect Flores to have the medical expertise, but I find it difficult to believe that he "misunderstood."




:twocents::twocents::twocents: IMO & from the "dangerous" position as wife of a retired homicide investigator: "Chatting" with LE when they are in the heat of a PRIMARY STAGE investigation is loaded with rabbit-holes! As a "veteran of these wars" (remember, DH & I first met and fought over jurisdiction of a DB & the death scene!), hypothetical scenarios are tossed about like....(fill in the blank!), suggestions are shared, time is short (as are tempers), certain parties want concrete answers rather than "I'm waiting for test results", and the conversations are communal & hopefully, collegial!
IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT DR. HORN was asked.....GSW, first?...ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! and my best estimate answer that he gave was possibly, let me open him up to be sure. THEN I betcha the conversation went on to WHY the boys & girls of LE hypothesized that theory given tiny, delicate flower Jodi.
DO YOU REMEMBER EACH & EVERY "CHAT" & "CHATTER" ...heck NO way, 'specially when it was 2008 and the OCME was understaffed!

:twocents::twocents::twocents:
Again, the human body presents to specialists in each of the investigatory fields differently at the scene & then "under the microscope".
 
Jodi Arias on the stand for 18 days, mostly talking about her sexual
activities..... Alyce laViolette on the stand for a week+ talking about
domestic violence, most of which was anecdotal and not in any way related to the killer.... Is overkill by any one's standards... It's been ridiculous IMO.

Agree with that totally. It was so excruciating to listen to.
 
A look into the mind of Arias



Till Death Do Us Part

Roses are red
and Violets are blue
After one meeting
I'm ObSeSsEd with you

I packed up my rental
with my gun and my knife
Gonna convince you to
make me your wife

A "surprise" little visit
and you scream "Go Away!"
but, ME and MY LOVE
are here to stay

I turned up the music
and locked up the pet
You're gonna love me
OR you're gonna regret

Pose in the shower
Like a good little boy
I'm the photographer
You are my toy

A shot to the head
you dropped to the floor
But, I'm not finished
I want more!

Crawling to the sink
on your hands and knees
Little do you know,
This is just a tease

I'm filled with Horror,
Lust and Rage
with a slice to the heart
I'm setting the stage

I move very swift
As I "capture" time
Gashing & slashing
I wield twenty nine

You don't love me
I'm just your *advertiser censored*
Try to flee, Travis
head for the door...

This is it,
You're close to the end
I am your nightmare
Never your friend

I pull back your head
and slash your vein
now suffer and feel
ALL of MY pain

The roses are DEAD
and the ribbons are blue
It took sixty-two
seconds to murder you.

I'm a *advertiser censored*?
A 3-hole wonder?
Look whose buried
six feet under...

I'm in prison
locked away
The trials begun
But, I'll have my say

I'll scam and lie
Play the victim role
Drag you through mud
you're a deviant soul

I'm in a FoG
I don't know
I won't let the prosecutor
steal the show

Starving for attention
after 19 days
I can't tell the truth
I'm 50 Shades Of Craze

Pure & innocent
I have the perfect excuse
I am a woman who
cries domestic abuse

The Irises are cold
and your grandmother is too
Do you think she knows
who slaughtered you?

I'll fool the world
I'll be acquitted, you'll see
Back in society
and then I'm free.
__________________
"This life is a beautiful life. A life that is all the more beautiful when we find someone of like mind, heart and spirit to share it with." ~ Travis Alexander

Wow. Did you write this? You are talented!
 
Oh the heck with it....I debated being politically correct, but I'm just gonna say it.
Grandma gave me the heebeejeebies. She gave me the creeps. For real.

I still say the only reason she came was to find out what happened to (a) her DVD player and (b) her husband's .25 caliber.

(In reply, Jodi just gave her a map to DB's house and the Arizona desert, in that order.)
 
:seeya: Could the shoe prints be from the roomies when they found Travis?

-or-

Since Jodi had her "ninja story" in her back pocket, maybe she put on a pair of shoes and walked around to make it appear there were 2 people?

BBM This is what I believe. The roomies who found Travis went down the hallway and discovered Travis in the shower, and then walked back down the hallway again to exit the room. No telling how many footprints they left themselves.
 
But the post wasn't about voluntary organ donation.

The topic is moot, thank goodness, because such sadistic punishment is unlawful and anathema to civilized societies. Nonetheless, that the idea is even entertained, and given verbal support, is disturbing and worthy of discussion.
Respectfully, the original post was about voluntary donation. It was a very mild, "Too bad Jodi Arias can't donate her organs so that something good could come of this." And for that, there SHOULD be support. There is NOTHING disturbing about looking for ways to derive meaning from death while saving others' lives.

The response is where the "sadistic punishment...anathema to civilization" came in after, it seems, the original message was misinterpreted. As did the "cell memory" argument.

I wish it WERE a moot point. The fact of the matter is that there needs to be REFORM in this arena. Many inmates strongly want to retain the right to donate their organs upon their death, and they are denied it. I believe this is wrong---as do many in the organ procurement world. If an inmate is healthy (and inmates can be screened for the diseases that preclude donation, just as those who are not in prison are screened) and freely consent, they should be able to donate. Lethal injection does not rule out organ donation, incidentally; the drugs used to not cause end-organ damage.

So, a mild comment was twisted, and some of us tried to nudge the conversation back on track---only to be told we're perverse and sadistic and uncivilized.

And misinformation about organ donation has been perpetuated. Which is frustrating for those of us in health care and/or who have loved ones who've given or received organs.
 
I think it was Dr Kevorkian who advocated organ harvesting instead of lethal injection. A Dr must be the one who administers the drugs and pronounces the deceased. So, why not allow the condemned the ability to at least one final act of repentance by donating?

ETA..... I'm 100% against the DP in any case.

A person who is an organ donor usually has to be given drugs to maintain blood pressure and heart function, so that circulation to all the organs continues.
The person is legally dead at that point (no brain activity discernible) but
the heart is still beating.

You cannot carry out the death penalty by administering lethal injections and then remove organs after the heart has stopped beating...
 
I'm not sure what vibe I got, but I definitely got a strange vibe from JA's grandma. I know nothing about her, have no beef with her, but she didn't strike me as feeble as I read here and elsewhere. Maybe I just got a glimpse of her at the wrong moment. She gave me a sense that she isn't a weak woman. And the looks I saw on her face were tough for me to decipher. Either angry and aghast that her granddaughter could do this or..... ?
Anyone else?

Well she's not there to support the Alexanders, and she's wearing that cruel/repulsive "domestic violence" awareness ribbon, so she's fully in the supporting-Jodi camp. Despicable. Accepting Jodi is one thing...supporting her is another. Unless she is of extremely low intelligence, there's no excuse for that behavior.
 
Respectfully, the original post was about voluntary donation. It was a very mild, "Too bad Jodi Arias can't donate her organs so that something good could come of this." And for that, there SHOULD be support. There is NOTHING disturbing about looking for ways to derive meaning from death while saving others' lives.

The response is where the "sadistic punishment...anathema to civilization" came in after, it seems, the original message was misinterpreted. As did the "cell memory" argument.

I wish it WERE a moot point. The fact of the matter is that there needs to be REFORM in this arena. Many inmates strongly want to retain the right to donate their organs upon their death, and they are denied it. I believe this is wrong---as do many in the organ procurement world. If an inmate is healthy (and inmates can be screened for the diseases that preclude donation, just as those who are not in prison are screened) and freely consent, they should be able to donate. Lethal injection does not rule out organ donation, incidentally; the drugs used to not cause end-organ damage.

So, a mild comment was twisted, and some of us tried to nudge the conversation back on track---only to be told we're perverse and sadistic and uncivilized.

And misinformation about organ donation has been perpetuated. Which is frustrating for those of us in health care and/or who have loved ones who've given or received organs.


Thank you. I agree. I wonder how many prisoners die each year who would be suitable candidates for donation? That would be an interesting study.
 
BBM This is what I believe. The roomies who found Travis went down the hallway and discovered Travis in the shower, and then walked back down the hallway again to exit the room. No telling how many footprints they left themselves.

I can't remember where I saw it (maybe police report?) but the roommates stated that they saw the blood and walked thru the closet to the bathroom to avoid the blood.
 
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