"Stun Gun" marks

[otg]

(bbm)

JonBenet was wide awake during the sexual assault. It was bookmarked by the acute injury that left the birefringent material behind at the time of her death.

I suppose the main focus of her copious injuries has been on the very barbaric garotte only to discover an underlying tremendous skull fracture caused by powerful might. An intentional strike with an intentional strangulation, if you will. The numerous bruises and abrasions tell a story, too. This child was severely battered before death.

It appears that dangerous anger was present. I suppose one could premeditate rage. Jesus did it once when he saw the moneychangers at the temple, He left to go make a whip out of cord. Legally, premeditation can be formed in a moment.

If PDI, it was premed for a while, months really. If BDI, it was premed for longer. What happened to JBR did not happen on a whim. Great consideration was given to certain aspects of the crimes. jmhoo

It's difficult to assign premeditation without evidence and not knowing the intent of the assailant. I don't think it's necessarily correct to assume intent based simply on the extent of injuries.

I remain concerned about the chronic abuse. Since JBs hymen erosion was in one specific location, it seems that it was someone with an experienced hand whereas a 9 - 10yo boy would not know to perform that gentle introduction in the same place each time.

No Links. Just an opinion.

The hymenal erosion wasn't in one specific location. It was circumferential as evidenced by the thickened and retracted edges (according to Dr. John McCann) where present. The hymen was completely absent in the upper one-third. The acute hymenal injury was in the lower right section ("7:00 position") of the remaining hymen:

A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1x1 cm hymenal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen.
​

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

which means if it was sexual nature it was not teaching her or grooming her for pleasure, jabbing her with something hard finger sized which I find difficult to believe (whats in it for the abuser??...) which leaves what I think is the bottom line.
patsy aggressively cleaning her with a douching wand.

I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of a douche wand having been used, k-mac -- especially considering Dr. Meyer's description of the fluid found internally. But as for your question about "whats in it for the abuser??"... I would suggest also the possibility of "juvenile curiosity."

 

[otg]

Minor differences
jabbed would be a quick poke with an object
shoved would be to use force to roughly jab with an object

If PR is violently douching her 6yo daughter with a plastic wand, when did that begin? Was it the first or second time? Do they sale child size douches? I can understand using a douche bottle to rinse after bedwetting. There is no reason to enter the vagina. They are totally separate orifices. And where is the wand and douche bottle in evidence or are those items we add to the "not found in the house" list along with tape and cord?

Maybe I need to be reminded why douching is a valid theory. Did PR admit to ever doing that or someone suggest she try it? Does this data come from Nedra? I simply don't recall because I am old. But, I am happy.

TMK, there is absolutely no innocent reason for douching a six-year-old child. The pH balance before production of estrogen is in itself natural protection against bacterial and yeast infections. Douching would make a child more susceptible to problems.


ETA: If anyone doubts that, try going into a store and asking a pharmacist where they keep the little girls' douche wands.

 

[BBB167893]

JonBenet was wide awake during the sexual assault. It was bookmarked by the acute injury that left the birefringent material behind at the time of her death.

I'm pretty sure that can't be, DeDee. For one thing, wouldn't an awake child scream and fight?

I remain concerned about the chronic abuse. Since JBs hymen erosion was in one specific location, it seems that it was someone with an experienced hand whereas a 9 - 10yo boy would not know to perform that gentle introduction in the same place each time.

That's my belief, too. I just can't see a boy that young having that kind of control.

 

[k-mac]

TMK, there is absolutely no innocent reason for douching a six-year-old child. The pH balance before production of estrogen is in itself natural protection against bacterial and yeast infections. Douching would make a child more susceptible to problems.


ETA: If anyone doubts that, try going into a store and asking a pharmacist where they keep the little girls' douche wands.

yes agree totally which is what I think the entire coverup started from.
patsy knew it was wrong and for me it takes a very ugly turn if the head bash and vaginal trauma were at her hands she then chose to finish her off (with the help of john) rather than face the repercussions of seeking JBR medical intervention.
from that moment ugly self indulgence took over. the purity of her god fearing heart exposed :-(

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

TMK, there is absolutely no innocent reason for douching a six-year-old child. The pH balance before production of estrogen is in itself natural protection against bacterial and yeast infections. Douching would make a child more susceptible to problems.


ETA: If anyone doubts that, try going into a store and asking a pharmacist where they keep the little girls' douche wands.

ITA and am also wondering if there was any proof that a douching wand was even used on JonBenet? Even if she did have a bed wetting problem, douching wouldn't have helped with the 'cleanliness' down there and in that area. Vaginas are generally *aherm* Self cleaning and so this just doesn't make sense to me to wash that area of a 6yo child.

 

[UKGuy]

ITA and am also wondering if there was any proof that a douching wand was even used on JonBenet? Even if she did have a bed wetting problem, douching wouldn't have helped with the 'cleanliness' down there and in that area. Vaginas are generally *aherm* Self cleaning and so this just doesn't make sense to me to wash that area of a 6yo child.

EtherealMoonRose,
Nope no proof available. Also the autopsy lab tests would have returned the chemical signatures for any commercial douching kit.


I doubt you could even say the douching was done to remove forensic evidence?

.

 

[DeDee]

(bbm)It's difficult to assign premeditation without evidence and not knowing the intent of the assailant. I don't think it's necessarily correct to assume intent based simply on the extent of injuries.


The hymenal erosion wasn't in one specific location. It was circumferential as evidenced by the thickened and retracted edges (according to Dr. John McCann) where present. The hymen was completely absent in the upper one-third. The acute hymenal injury was in the lower right section ("7:00 position") of the remaining hymen:

A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1x1 cm hymenal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen.
​

The hymen was completely absent in the upper one-third.

Originally Posted by DeDee
JBs hymen erosion was in one specific location

The hymen was completely absent in the upper one-third.

 

[DeDee]

Quote Originally Posted by DeDee
JonBenet was wide awake during the sexual assault. It was bookmarked by the acute injury that left the birefringent material behind at the time of her death.

I'm pretty sure that can't be, DeDee. For one thing, wouldn't an awake child scream and fight?

<>

I think JB did scream as the situation grew more aggressive. The blood evidence indicates she was alive when she was sexually assaulted. Is that wording better suited?

Maybe JB could not see during portions of the crimes against her. The eyemask inventoried by BPD has always sat silently on the fringes.

 

[DeDee]

(rsbm)I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of a douche wand having been used, k-mac -- especially considering Dr. Meyer's description of the fluid found internally. But as for your question about "whats in it for the abuser??"... I would suggest also the possibility of "juvenile curiosity."

Thank you for bringing up the matter of fluid in the vaginal vault. I think it is significant and not open to public viewing what the fluid consisted of. Wasn't described as KYjelly that melted from body heat. What is the viewpoint on this post mortem condition of fluid in the vault?

I used a nasal syringe for my child when there was a stuffy nose and were too young to blow their sinuses. JB had stuffy nose complaints in her med records.

Conversely, this bulb syringe could be filled with water and then kind of squeeze the water into the vagina but I do not see any evidence of douching. I've seen no evidence of a bulb syringe or a douche kit being found in the home.

But, if you are photographing the Crime of the Century, why don't you bother to photograph the box of Christmas candy that was allegedly ruined and deemed inedible and in the victim's bedroom? That item should have been visually recorded.

Photo credit: http://bandageer.info/bulb-syringe-aspirator/

 

[otg]

DeDee, the ME took vaginal swabs and sent them for analysis. We've never heard the results of any testing that was done, so we don't know what was found. It's just always bothered me about Dr. Meyer's description of what he saw. Here is what was written about it in Listen Carefully:

A perplexing item noted by Meyer without explanation in the autopsy report was that he found, “A minimal amount of semiliquid thin watery red fluid is present in the vaginal vault.” Normally any vaginal fluids would be viscid (glutinous or sticky), so Meyer’s description presents a conundrum. The term “semiliquid” tends to contradict the subsequent description of “thin watery fluid.”

Did Meyer see the presence of a noticeable mixture of two different fluids, or was this his attempt to describe a fluid that was simply thinner than what would be found under normal circumstances? Mention of the fluid being red implies the presence of blood, but test results of this fluid have never been released to the public. The absence of explanation leaves it open to speculation the fluid found in the vaginal vault might have been the result of an attempt at using water to remove evidence.
​

Wow. That photo of the nasal syringe brings back memories. It's been years since I had little ones around.

 

[Mosaic]

If I'm not mistaken, I read that there were some syringes on JAR's bedroom.
They were leftovers from the time PR's was recovering on JAR's room.
I wonder if they checked her body for needles pricks, or if a syringe was used
to flush away unwanted fluids...

 

[BBB167893]

I think JB did scream as the situation grew more aggressive. The blood evidence indicates she was alive when she was sexually assaulted. Is that wording better suited?

For me, yes. The way I see it, she was alive, in a technical sense, when it happened, but was on her way out, if you will.

Maybe JB could not see during portions of the crimes against her. The eyemask inventoried by BPD has always sat silently on the fringes.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about that completely!

 

[DeDee]

For me, yes. The way I see it, she was alive, in a technical sense, when it happened, but was on her way out, if you will.



Yeah, I'd forgotten about that completely!

My problem is that I want everything to fit any one theory and it doesn't. It is not about being right or wrong for me. It is about having the truth.

I must say there is no one on this forum who loves JonBenet more than you do. Many have shed tears over her dreadful demise including many, but not all, of the investigators and many of us as members of WS. I wish someone would just tell me what happened so I can quit guessing and speculating and laying awake at night wondering about different aspects of the case.

 

[Ambitioned]

I wish someone would just tell me what happened so I can quit guessing and speculating and laying awake at night wondering about different aspects of the case.

IMO, the Grand Jury solved it. But yes, I wish the entire transcript was released. It would shed light on the details.

 

[BBB167893]

I wish someone would just tell me what happened so I can quit guessing and speculating and laying awake at night wondering about different aspects of the case.

Amen to that!

 

[questfortrue]

My problem is that I want everything to fit any one theory and it doesn't. It is not about being right or wrong for me. It is about having the truth.

I must say there is no one on this forum who loves JonBenet more than you do. Many have shed tears over her dreadful demise including many, but not all, of the investigators and many of us as members of WS. I wish someone would just tell me what happened so I can quit guessing and speculating and laying awake at night wondering about different aspects of the case.

You’ve given voice to my sentiments, DeDee. After viewing the scenes in JonBenét’s bedroom again, a lovely Christmas tree, her dolls and dollhouse, stuffed animals, another impression would have been given to investigators. The overpowering scent of urine would have been noticed, and later some of us would wonder if what is seen on the rug is smeared feces. Something close to a sense of dread begins to take hold. Days, months, years later it’s still the realization of the brutal death she suffered, and it is no wonder it’s brought many to tears. She had a cruel death and was left alone in a small creepy storage room in the basement. Contrast her bedroom decor with the basement overflowing with clutter, a couple of rats (yes, I’ve seen photos of rats in the basement), a suitcase with a semen stained duvet and adult Dr. Seuss book and you’ve got the ingredients for a Stephen King horror film.

Whoever in the family had been responsible for her death it was someone’s conclusion on that late night/early morning that covering up the homicide was a better choice in order to keep their family together, just escape ‘it’ all (the ‘it’ depending on one’s theory of the crime). I don’t know what went through their minds, but I do believe one thing: None of them can really ever escape from this horror, as much as they might like to pretend about an intruder. Covering up what happened ensnared all of them into the brutality of it. And for them, there’s no reset button.

 

[otg]

IMO, the Grand Jury solved it. But yes, I wish the entire transcript was released. It would shed light on the details.

I agree with you, Ambitioned, that the RGJ solved it (for the most part). But unless and until the statutes surrounding GJ secrecy are changed, making the transcript public will never happen.

One thing that will (I think) eventually be released are the remaining true bills that were considered but not voted for by a majority of RGJ members. Releasing only the "signed" TBs was a compromise decision by Judge Lowenbach. His decision to release only those that were signed by the RGJ Foreman goes against the statutes and previous rulings and precedent (see Aaron Thompson decision). Unfortunately the only person in a position to have challenged the ruling (Charlie Brennan) is not interested in pursuing it any further. His objective was simply to prove his assertion that a true bill was returned but not acted upon by Alex Hunter.