Support Thread: Jurors

[askfornina]

Okay you guys - I have had it. I have unapproved more posts in this thread than any other thread I've read and this one is only 3 pages long.

I have explained this over and over - this is the LAST TIME!

ANYONE ELSE THAT POSTS NEGATIVE COMMENTARY IN THIS THREAD WILL BE RECOMMENDED FOR A 48 HOUR TIME OUT - NO EXCUSES, NO APOLOGIES.

Enough is enough. STOP. Think before you post. This is a support thread.

IF YOU CAN'T SUPPORT - THEN DON'T POST IN THIS THREAD​

It's nice of Some Lawyer, Esq. to point out the beauty of constitutionally protected freedoms (and I believe in them so much that I joined the military and served for a few years) <modsnip>.

.....

 

[gladiatorqueen]

<modsnip>
I, personally, have great admiration for them and can't imagine how difficult it must have been to announce their verdict.

 

[YellowDog]

These jurors did not ask to be called for jury duty but, when asked, they showed up. They gave up six or seven weeks of their lives to sit on this jury and I never heard any reports of problems among them. The attorneys on both sides apparently considered them to be intelligent individuals as they all made it through the voir dire questioning without being struck.

I think they did their job conscientiously and put a lot of thought into their decisions.
To sentence someone to death or LWOP without being 100% certain in all respects is something you would have to live with the rest of your life. They obviously had doubts so they did not convict.

I applaud them for taking on this thankless job and find it sad that they do not feel safe.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

These jurors did not ask to be called for jury duty but, when asked, they showed up. They gave up six or seven weeks of their lives to sit on this jury and I never heard any reports of problems among them. The attorneys on both sides apparently considered them to be intelligent individuals as they all made it through the voir dire questioning without being struck.

I think they did their job conscientiously and put a lot of thought into their decisions.
To sentence someone to death or LWOP without being 100% certain in all respects is something you would have to live with the rest of your life. They obviously had doubts so they did not convict.

I applaud them for taking on this thankless job and find it sad that they do not feel safe.

I totally agree with you, they did their duty, and did it well.

The jury had a first vote of 10-2 for count one. It would appear that the state wanted the 1st count so much, that it geared its entire case towards this 1st count. It would appear the state did little or nothing to address counts 2 and 3. It would appear the state went all or nothing for the 1st count. The jury did not take long to become unanimous in the not guilty vote on the 1st count. The jury also early on decided unanimously that KC was guilty on counts 4-7.

The initial vote on counts 2 and 3 was 6-6. Since the state did little to address counts 2 and 3, the 6 who voted guilty now had to persuade the other 6 to change their votes. What could they have argued? The case the state presented did not help them with this, it was geared all or nothing to the DP. The 6 who voted guilty could argue, that the same reasoning applied to the not guilty on charge 1 could be applied to charges 2 and 3. The evidence in the opinion of all 12 jurors was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt to prove premeditated murder. How could the same evidence prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt? How much deliberating time would it take to change the mind of the 6 who were voting guilty on charges 2 and 3 when they already had voted not guilty on charge 1? Apparently, on counts 2 and 3 since the jurors did not find GA credible, it was not possible for the jurors to determine who the caregiver was on the morning of the 16th. This is all the 6 who voted not guilty on counts 2 and 3 had to convince the other 6 of. With GA's combativeness, seemingly evasiveness, and being arguementative on the stand, it really would not have taken that much convincing. In an interview, the interviewer said "there was no evidence of a drowning", to which JF replied "there was no evidence of a murder." So if the jurors felt there was no evidence of a murder, or no evidence BARD of murder, counts 1 and 2 would now be off the table, leaving only count 3. Again with GA being a non credible witness in the eyes of these jurors, it made the caregiver issue on the morning of the 16th the deciding factor. If you are not certain BARD that KC was exclusively the caregiver that morning, then you cannot vote guilty on count 3.

10 of these jurors did not believe she was guilty of count 1 from the get go, and half of them did not believe she was guilty of counts 2 and 3. It sounds like they all felt she was responsible for something, but according to the way they interpreted the jury instructions (and CM schooled them in the way most favorable to the defense, yet JA did not take his second opportunity at closing to contradict what CM had said), the jurors could not find her guilty of the charges rendered.

Many are concerned about the relatively short deliberation time, when half voted guiilty on counts 2 and 3. What we don't know, is what was said during the round robin. If the issues the 6 who voted guilty had were along these lines. She is a liar, she is guilty of something, it is awful what happened to that child and someone needs to pay for it, someone put that poor baby in the swamp, etc. There would be no need to go over all the evidence because those reasons do not involve evidence. All the 6 non guilty voters would have to say is what proof BARD do we have that KC is the one who did this awful thing, who placed Caylee in the swamp. Basically, the state went for the DP and in not addressing counts 2 and 3, the jurors had little to deliberate about after finding her not guilty on count 1.

I know it was difficult to watch KC walk away from all this a free woman. The states failure in a court of law to prove these counts BARD is not the fault of these jurors. Many from 56% to 77% depending on which poll you choose to believe feel the jury was wrong. Many lawyers and judges feel the jury was wrong, but many lawyers and judges feel the jury was right. It would not have mattered if the jury spent 10 hours or 10 days, the not guilty on counts 1 thru 3 would have and did cause outrage in the general public. There was nothing that could have transpired at the trial that would have changed the mind of those in the general public who had already made up their mind that KC was guilty, and in that regard, the only verdict that would not have been deeply criticized would have been guilty on all counts. The court of public opinion is not a court of law. In a court of law, KC was acquitted. Whether the jury was right or wrong at this point is pretty much just a matter of opinion, as far as the law is concerned, KC has been acquitted and she can not be tried again, or in other words, KC is not guilty of the counts 1 thru 3. According to the law, the jury got it right, and I agree.

I think the jury did their duty, and did so in an admirable manner.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[greycoupon]

I want to make sure I didn't miss anything. Did the prosecution frame what happened on June 16th? I know they went over the BBV surveillance tape from that night but what happened the rest of the day. The more I read, the more frustrated I get at the state.

Jose did score a point in closing pointing out the state never explained why Casey did this on that date which is a Monday. The child abuse charges were based on the idea Casey chloroformed her? Proof being the internet searches, happy perjury Cindy, and the forensics from the trunk. That's a little vague to say the least.

OT: victim blaming makes me sad. No doubt the DT is working to get Casey's "brand" value but Mason's wife wasn't making up the death threats.

 

[gladiatorqueen]

Many are concerned about the relatively short deliberation time, when half voted guiilty on counts 2 and 3. What we don't know, is what was said during the round robin. If the issues the 6 who voted guilty had were along these lines. She is a liar, she is guilty of something, it is awful what happened to that child and someone needs to pay for it, someone put that poor baby in the swamp, etc. There would be no need to go over all the evidence because those reasons do not involve evidence. All the 6 non guilty voters would have to say is what proof BARD do we have that KC is the one who did this awful thing, who placed Caylee in the swamp. Basically, the state went for the DP and in not addressing counts 2 and 3, the jurors had little to deliberate about after finding her not guilty on count 1.

I don`t think the deliberation time is that out of the ordinary once I did a comparison with other trials.

Scott Peterson`s trial was about 20 weeks; deliberation was about 44 hours (over 7 days).

Casey Anthony trial was 6 weeks; deliberation time 10-11 hours.

Darlie Routier`s trial was 3 weeks with a deliberation time of 7 hours.

It`s a bit quicker time based on length of trial but only by a few hours (2 or 3 at the absolute most).

JMOO.

 

[kpalma715]

Although I was extremely upset when I heard NOT GUILTY, I also understand why they chose the verdict they chose. I think the SA did an awesome job during the trial, but there was not enough proof that Caylee was indeed murdered. I always had in the back of my mind, was it an accident? Was the duct tape there to control water or decomp fluid from draining out? There was no proof IMO, that the duct tape was on before or after death. Although, I dont agree with the defense theory that GA was involved. I do agree GA was lying on the stand plenty of times though, which helped the defense. I dont think she cared much that Caylee died and just went on with her life. I do agree she has mental issues.

I also wanted to add that my friend knew a girl, who had a baby. The baby died of SIDS at 5 months old. The day of the funeral the Mom of the baby asked everyone after the repass, who is clubbing with me tonight? She implied she needed some drinks from the stress. My friend was so aggrivated with her attitude after her childs death, she never spoke to her again.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Just a quick reminder:

HEY!!!!

This is a support thread! If you don't have something positive to say - then DON'T say it - go to a different thread, it doesn't belong here.

Everyone's opinion is valued here (as long as it is within TOS)! If you disagree with the topic of this thread, don't read or post here. That's okay. But WS has always allowed support threads and this one is no different. So please be respectful of the topic!

You opinion is valued also, but if it is negative, it doesn't belong in this thread - there are other threads, go find the appropriate one.

Salem

<modsnip>

I'm glad this thread is here, because I truly support the jury. I'm hoping some of the media firestorm dies down, so that when their names are released, hardly any attention will be paid to it. They deserve to be able to get on with their lives and they deserve not to be harassed about the verdict. I can't believe the trial/Casey is still getting so much coverage. Those poor jurors.

 

[greycoupon]

<modsnip>

Although I was extremely upset when I heard NOT GUILTY, I also understand why they chose the verdict they chose. I think the SA did an awesome job during the trial, but there was not enough proof that Caylee was indeed murdered. I always had in the back of my mind, was it an accident? Was the duct tape there to control water or decomp fluid from draining out? There was no proof IMO, that the duct tape was on before or after death. Although, I dont agree with the defense theory that GA was involved. I do agree GA was lying on the stand plenty of times though, which helped the defense. I dont think she cared much that Caylee died and just went on with her life. I do agree she has mental issues.

I also wanted to add that my friend knew a girl, who had a baby. The baby died of SIDS at 5 months old. The day of the funeral the Mom of the baby asked everyone after the repass, who is clubbing with me tonight? She implied she needed some drinks from the stress. My friend was so aggrivated with her attitude after her childs death, she never spoke to her again.

I think you nailed it here. They didn't need to prove cause of death, I know that's been argued about a lot but they didn't set it up. When did this happen? Why? I missed the early days of trial so I'm not sure if they ever set up what a "normal" day was for the A's before June 16th to establish who would have been Caylee's caretaker. I don't believe this was done.

That mom was pretty young, right? Was it just the day of the funeral that led to your friend cutting off contact? The grief expert was ridiculous but the basic point she made was absolutely correct. There is no normal or typical response to grief. There are reactions that aren't mentally healthy but you can never say that no parent could ever react like Casey did unless she killed the child. I can see your friend's friend, being young and likely immature, not feeling like they were moms to begin with. I think Casey's bond with Caylee was incomplete, which lends to her lack of grief. Caylee was adorable and she did love her but she put a lot of the responsibility on her parents. The one thing that surprises me is no mental health diagnosis for Casey yet. She def is very screwed up but that doesn't mean murderer.

 

[Who_What_When]

Although I was extremely upset when I heard NOT GUILTY, I also understand why they chose the verdict they chose. I think the SA did an awesome job during the trial, but there was not enough proof that Caylee was indeed murdered. I always had in the back of my mind, was it an accident? Was the duct tape there to control water or decomp fluid from draining out? There was no proof IMO, that the duct tape was on before or after death. Although, I dont agree with the defense theory that GA was involved. I do agree GA was lying on the stand plenty of times though, which helped the defense. I dont think she cared much that Caylee died and just went on with her life. I do agree she has mental issues.

I also wanted to add that my friend knew a girl, who had a baby. The baby died of SIDS at 5 months old. The day of the funeral the Mom of the baby asked everyone after the repass, who is clubbing with me tonight? She implied she needed some drinks from the stress. My friend was so aggrivated with her attitude after her childs death, she never spoke to her again.

Thank you for your post. I agree! This is how I felt as well. I was upset about the verdict but understood how they came to it. The only part I still struggle with is the Child Abuse charge as I feel that even if it was an accident, her not calling for help was negligent BUT I don't see how bashing the jury or their character helps anything.

As for your friend's friend...it's really sad that there are people out there like this. I can't say I'm surprised but it is heartbreaking.

 

[askfornina]

<modsnip>


I think you nailed it here. They didn't need to prove cause of death, I know that's been argued about a lot but they didn't set it up. When did this happen? Why? I missed the early days of trial so I'm not sure if they ever set up what a "normal" day was for the A's before June 16th to establish who would have been Caylee's caretaker. I don't believe this was done.

That mom was pretty young, right? Was it just the day of the funeral that led to your friend cutting off contact? The grief expert was ridiculous but the basic point she made was absolutely correct. There is no normal or typical response to grief. There are reactions that aren't mentally healthy but you can never say that no parent could ever react like Casey did unless she killed the child. I can see your friend's friend, being young and likely immature, not feeling like they were moms to begin with. I think Casey's bond with Caylee was incomplete, which lends to her lack of grief. Caylee was adorable and she did love her but she put a lot of the responsibility on her parents. The one thing that surprises me is no mental health diagnosis for Casey yet. She def is very screwed up but that doesn't mean murderer.

as far as the caretaker thing is concerned, i think they went out of the way to say that cindy provided for that baby, not casey. though i guess that doesnt necessarily suggest that cindy was the actual "caretaker" but eh just sayin.

 

[Flossie JMO]

While I don't agree with their decision, I really think it's tragic that these jurors have to fear for their safety and that they will never feel comfortable sitting on a jury again. I have never been summoned for jury duty. I have no idea why since about everyone else I know has been. I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for these people to be forced away from their families and forced to view and hear horrible things.

It was like they were in jail themselves. And I wonder if that made them psychologically identify with KC.

Well said. I haven't been called either, I heard I won't be as I don't have a driver's license and don't vote. JMO

 

[greycoupon]

bbm, I'm reading backwards and haven't heard that yet hate to ask can you link?

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...ns-wife-calls-911-to-report-threatening-calls

Mrs Mason called 911 on Tuesday night.

i would just like to add here that i think a "cindy and george" support thread would turn out worse than even a "defense team support thread" and i find that to be very, very very sad. regardless of your feelings toward cindy and george, i believe they have gone through something absolutely unimagineable and it is pretty sickening to me that they are treated like they are evil. if i saw them on the street i would tell them i'm sorry. they didn't ask for this.

Didn't there used to be an Anthony's support thread? It's all sad. I think we want this all in the black and white. *advertiser censored* is the bad guy and yyy are the good guys. Maybe I am more inclined to feel for them since I have experience with pathological liars. I'm not the parent of but am the child of one.

You get used to it and covering or ignoring becomes normal. My father didn't make up people quite as extensively as Casey but my best friend in high school did. I've known several people like this. All with obvious psychological issues and very narcissistic. None, at all violent btw.

Cindy is going to cover for Casey. She's going to want Casey because that's all she has left. I can't comment on the foundation they are starting as I'm not clear on the details. They aren't saints but they aren't the devil either.

 

[Flossie JMO]

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...ns-wife-calls-911-to-report-threatening-calls

Mrs Mason called 911 on Tuesday night.





Didn't there used to be an Anthony's support thread? It's all sad. I think we want this all in the black and white. *advertiser censored* is the bad guy and yyy are the good guys. Maybe I am more inclined to feel for them since I have experience with pathological liars. I'm not the parent of but am the child of one.

You get used to it and covering or ignoring becomes normal. My father didn't make up people quite as extensively as Casey but my best friend in high school did. I've known several people like this. All with obvious psychological issues and very narcissistic. None, at all violent btw.

Cindy is going to cover for Casey. She's going to want Casey because that's all she has left. I can't comment on the foundation they are starting as I'm not clear on the details. They aren't saints but they aren't the devil either.

Thank you, will check it out

 

[Salem]

Bumping to remind everyone this is for support ONLY. Please post your NONsupportive comment in another thread somewhere.

Okay you guys - I have had it. I have unapproved more posts in this thread than any other thread I've read and this one is only 3 pages long.

I have explained this over and over - this is the LAST TIME!

ANYONE ELSE THAT POSTS NEGATIVE COMMENTARY IN THIS THREAD WILL BE RECOMMENDED FOR A 48 HOUR TIME OUT - NO EXCUSES, NO APOLOGIES.

Enough is enough. STOP. Think before you post. This is a support thread.

IF YOU CAN'T SUPPORT - THEN DON'T POST IN THIS THREAD​

 

[askfornina]

maybe i am missing something here. i haven't been on this earth more than 17 years so that is a huge possibility..but i just cannot bring myself to be "outraged" by any of this. all of the negativity is really getting to me, i have been reading this section less and less. it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. maybe i am niave. maybe i am just plain wrong. but i just do not feel anger or hatred for anyone involved in this mess. it just makes me very sad. maybe this is the mentality of my generation that i keep hearing about, in action. perhaps i have been raised to think that people are not accountable for their actions. but i just do not see it that way.

 

[greycoupon]

New article Casey Anthony jurors still feeling effects of public backlash

 

[1tasha]

maybe i am missing something here. i haven't been on this earth more than 17 years so that is a huge possibility..but i just cannot bring myself to be "outraged" by any of this. all of the negativity is really getting to me, i have been reading this section less and less. it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. maybe i am niave. maybe i am just plain wrong. but i just do not feel anger or hatred for anyone involved in this mess. it just makes me very sad. maybe this is the mentality of my generation that i keep hearing about, in action. perhaps i have been raised to think that people are not accountable for their actions. but i just do not see it that way.

Age doesn't negate the value of your opinion. And, as a gen x/y person myself, be careful how you accept labels others place on your generation. JMO.

 

[southcitymom]

maybe i am missing something here. i haven't been on this earth more than 17 years so that is a huge possibility..but i just cannot bring myself to be "outraged" by any of this. all of the negativity is really getting to me, i have been reading this section less and less. it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. maybe i am niave. maybe i am just plain wrong. but i just do not feel anger or hatred for anyone involved in this mess. it just makes me very sad. maybe this is the mentality of my generation that i keep hearing about, in action. perhaps i have been raised to think that people are not accountable for their actions. but i just do not see it that way.

I'm 44, and I don't feel any outrage, anger or hatred for anyone involved in this case either. My predominant feeling is a prayer for love and peace for all participants.

I don't consider this to be inaction or a disbelief that people not be held accountable for their actions. I believe that people are always held accountable for their actions and they don't need other people to dole out that accountability.

I hope things continue to get chiller for the jurors and I believe that they will. Sadly enough, some other train wreck will occur and we will turn our focus towards that fresh disaster.

 

[JBean]

I'm 44, and I don't feel any outrage, anger or hatred for anyone involved in this case either. My predominant feeling is a prayer for love and peace for all participants.

I don't consider this to be inaction or a disbelief that people not be held accountable for their actions. I believe that people are always held accountable for their actions and they don't need other people to dole out that accountability.

I hope things continue to get chiller for the jurors and I believe that they will. Sadly enough, some other train wreck will occur and we will turn our focus towards that fresh disaster.

I am 54 and I feel similarly.I do not have outrage or anger.