Suspect Vehicle

[antiquegirl]

This too is my opinion.
I last saw his car at around midnight on Friday before his arrest, and was definitely not black, and the entire front bumper was the Honda blue... that on those pics looks to me like the front bumper has been spraypainted to look like the car I saw. Somewhere I have a picture of most of the front bumper of the car, except my son has lost his cell phone, and thats where the pic is, if I can find it, then I will post it.
Also, on his car, there was no silver on front grill, and whenever I saw the car there were snow tires on it.. not the ones in both of those pics.

(BBM)

NS, this was approximately the time that Drivenchick said MTR arrived at her place that same night. Without having to reveal more, are you saying that you saw MTR's car at or near DC's home?

 

[antiquegirl]

Who said anything about logic? Why was your boyfriend using snow tires in April and May? If your boyfriend had his regular tires on his car, as we can see in the Esso still, then he changed his tires after his trip to Mount Forest to get rid of some of the evidence. Maybe snow tires were all he had at the time. Maybe he told the cops where the tires were after he was arrested and they put them on. The shot of the car looks like it is taken in a garage. Maybe the police wanted the car to look exactly as it did the day Tori was abducted and murdered.

(BBM)

I'm a little baffled here. Why would LE remove the "innocent" snow tires from the car and replace them with the "guilty" regular tires (the ones with the supposed evidence)? They were looking for witnesses to the car, not the tires. Wouldn't the tires supposedly used in the abduction be sitting in a lab somewhere being carefully preserved until there was something to match them to? There was no soil for comparison until Tori's remains were found weeks later.

 

[OneLostGrl]

1. From the Esso station in Woodstock, ON

2. Photo released to the public on May 22, from undisclosed location, presumably in OPP garage.

"Investigators are hopeful that someone may recall seeing the suspect vehicle and/or suspects either in the City of Woodstock or the Guelph area. The vehicle is described as a 2003 Honda 4-Door car, blue with black spray paint over portions of the vehicle."

"Police continue to look for evidence in and around Wellington County in proximity to the City of Guelph, Ontario. Investigators have cause to believe that the vehicle, suspects and victim may have been in and around the area of the Home Depot parking lot sometime during the early evening hours of the 8th of April 2009. Police would like to speak with anyone who may have information pertaining to the vehicle and/or occupants.

Police investigators are also asking area property owners in within a 50 minute drive of Guelph City, to check their fields and report any suspicious or significant changes they notice to landscape or familiar landmarks."

link: http://www.ocpsaux.org/PRESS RELEASEFrame1Source1.htm

This is her car?

Ooops, sorry!! I guess I should finish reading before I ask stupid questions!

 

[matou]

(BBM)

I'm a little baffled here. Why would LE remove the "innocent" snow tires from the car and replace them with the "guilty" regular tires (the ones with the supposed evidence)? They were looking for witnesses to the car, not the tires. Wouldn't the tires supposedly used in the abduction be sitting in a lab somewhere being carefully preserved until there was something to match them to? There was no soil for comparison until Tori's remains were found weeks later.

You're right, the tires would be in a forensic lab being examined. I thought the tires would be replacements for the snow tires to get the car to look like it did in the Esso video.

 

[OneLostGrl]

This theory of changing the tires does not work logically. If he were to have the winter tires to make it down the laneway, that would mean the Esso surveillance video would show those tires. But instead, they are regular rims & tires. He had the snow tires on his vehicle with caps during the time we dated. It just seems backwards for this theory to be correct IMO. Right?

Also, I have said before there is no way there's two cares like this one. The interior has been sanded down from white paint and the outside job with the hand done hood scoop.

The most important fact is that the photos released to the media are not accurate at all. I stated that in the last thread and went into detail. The ones the LE showed me in person are accurate. FYI

Ys know, I'm thinking this may not be a very good place for you to be right now. People are asking you questions you should not be answering, the things you say here could very well end up being held against him in court. I don't know the man and nothing yet about the case but I'd hate to see him get convicted or have to plea to something because you are too trusing and want to clear his name here. I understand and have mad respect for your desire to protect the mans name but please remember that this is a crime sleuthing community and our members here can be quite stealthy in how they go about finding facts.

I do not know if anyone here is trying to trip you up, probably not.. but still. I'd hate to see you end up being taken advantage of.

 

[antiquegirl]

Here is a list of possible changes done to MRs vehicle since the abduction and murder:

1. washed the exterior of the car at a 24hour car wash
2. vacuumed the interior of the car
3. washed the interior of the car
4. removed the carpet from the interior of the car and the trunk
5. removed the rear car seat
6. changed the tires
7. changed the paint colour
   [*]removed the rear door handles
8. switched the license plate

JMO

(BBM)

I'm also puzzled why anyone would think that MTR would remove the rear door handles of his car. (Never mind that DC has said that they were all there and that this was an extremely poor-quality photo.) TIA for an explanation.

 

[matou]

(BBM)

I'm also puzzled why anyone would think that MTR would remove the rear door handles of his car. (Never mind that DC has said that they were all there and that this was an extremely poor-quality photo.) TIA for an explanation.

It's just from the photo. I have no idea why he would remove the handles if he did. I've asked several people to look at that photo to see if they could see a handle there and they could not so it's not just me. Maybe he didn't want anyone entering the vehicle in the back? who knows? DC stated herself that she took off one of the door handles herself by accident. Maybe forensics took off the handles to be examined for prints/evidence? I made a list of possible changes made to his car based on photos and info provided by posters on here.

 

[nurse_sleuth]

This is big news. Either MR deliberately changed his car after the Friday of his 'interview' or he was using another car (one that looked similar to the one in the photos). I hope you find the images of his car. Were you suspicious of him to take these photos or was this a people shot with the car in the photo?

I suspect that he would have changed his tires because the lane leading up to the location of the remains in Mt. Forest is about 400-500 metres. He would have left tire tracks in the mud or snow and had evidence of the location inside of the treads of the original tires (e.g pine needles, etc) I hope the police have the original tires. TY for this mind-blowing revelation.

This is what I cant understand... either he made major changes, or there were 2 different cars. I honestly didnt think, when I first saw the pics LE released, that it was his car... but he could have changed out certian parts in order to disguise how it was. However, this theory doesnt lend true in light of the fact that the car from LE in the garage, and the Esso pic car look the same. This would mean it was the same car in both wouldnt it? Therefore, not the same car as far as I can tell that I knew him to have. JMO

 

[nurse_sleuth]

(BBM)

NS, this was approximately the time that Drivenchick said MTR arrived at her place that same night. Without having to reveal more, are you saying that you saw MTR's car at or near DC's home?

I saw him arriving at her place as I was leaving her neighbours house.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Ys know, I'm thinking this may not be a very good place for you to be right now. People are asking you questions you should not be answering, the things you say here could very well end up being held against him in court. I don't know the man and nothing yet about the case but I'd hate to see him get convicted or have to plea to something because you are too trusing and want to clear his name here. I understand and have mad respect for your desire to protect the mans name but please remember that this is a crime sleuthing community and our members here can be quite stealthy in how they go about finding facts.

I do not know if anyone here is trying to trip you up, probably not.. but still. I'd hate to see you end up being taken advantage of.

I totally see what you're saying OLG, and, from reading your posts in the past, I know it's because you truly care about people. :blowkiss: However, DC appears to be able to handle herself quite well on here from what I've seen. She also doesn't answer anything that would interfere with the case IMO and doesn't speculate about things she doesn't know about. I think it was brave of her to start posting on here in the first place and then to reveal that she is MTR's girlfriend. I truly enjoy her insight. I will wait for all of the evidence in this case to be revealed, before I decide who is guilty and who is not, but I do appreciate hearing from friends and girlfriends of MTR and hearing a totally different perspective. MOO.

 

[antiquegirl]

This is what I cant understand... either he made major changes, or there were 2 different cars. I honestly didnt think, when I first saw the pics LE released, that it was his car... but he could have changed out certian parts in order to disguise how it was. However, this theory doesnt lend true in light of the fact that the car from LE in the garage, and the Esso pic car look the same. This would mean it was the same car in both wouldnt it? Therefore, not the same car as far as I can tell that I knew him to have. JMO

Both Wendell and DC have explained that both of these pics by LE are very deceiving in that they're poor quality photocopies. Both have confirmed that it's MTR's car, although it looks quite different in these two pictures. DC has said that he made no changes to his car from the time she met him on April 13th until the day he was arrested on May 19th.

My thoughts on this are:

(a) If MTR wanted to disguise his (extremely distinctive looking) vehicle after April 8th, no matter how incompetent he was, he could have done a much better job of it. Both pictures released by LE look pretty much the same.

(b) Why change the license plates, but not re-paint the car a totally different colour, hide it, or get rid of it? The description and video were out there for all to see. No one knew the license number, not even LE until May 15th. At that time, MTR was interviewed at home and he should have known that LE would have both his license number and the description of his car. Presumably, it was sitting in the driveway when LE arrived to interrogate him.

(c) LE only had MTR's car for a couple of days before releasing these pics. Is anyone suggesting that in that short time frame they found an identical make and model, duplicated the intricate paint job (outside and in) and the fake hood vent, and pawned it off on the public as MTR's car? Why? When they had the real deal in their possession?

(d) Why would MTR get rid of his original clunker and get another identical one, only to make it look just like the one he used to have, including removing the back seat? Seems like a silly way to waste money. Why not just ditch the old car (if he had something to hide) and get an entirely different one?

Occam's Razon once again. The simplest explanation is that the car in the two photos is in fact MTR's and that there have been no alterations to it since at least April 13th when DC first saw it, as she claims.

MOO

 

[Mystic]

It should be under the little rear window. I see a little blur...

I've never done this before and hope I did it correctly. I've circled where I believe the rear door handle is. It's a bit further back at mid point above the tire rim. Zoom to 400 and compare location to the other picture at Esso.

 

[maxfactor]

It's just from the photo. I have no idea why he would remove the handles if he did. I've asked several people to look at that photo to see if they could see a handle there and they could not so it's not just me. Maybe he didn't want anyone entering the vehicle in the back? who knows? DC stated herself that she took off one of the door handles herself by accident. Maybe forensics took off the handles to be examined for prints/evidence? I made a list of possible changes made to his car based on photos and info provided by posters on here.

Maybe the handles were removed so someone couldn't get OUT ?

 

[Mabel 19]

Maybe the handles were removed so someone couldn't get OUT ?

Sorry, but they were not removed. I've been in the back to get items out for MR and clean the car, etc. The handles were ALL in tact. I broke the passenger one once and we fixed it in a few minutes.

 

[Mystic]

It's just from the photo. I have no idea why he would remove the handles if he did. I've asked several people to look at that photo to see if they could see a handle there and they could not so it's not just me. Maybe he didn't want anyone entering the vehicle in the back? who knows? DC stated herself that she took off one of the door handles herself by accident. Maybe forensics took off the handles to be examined for prints/evidence? I made a list of possible changes made to his car based on photos and info provided by posters on here.

Just to be helpful. The door handles are there. I worked in auto body shop many years ago prepping, taping/sanding cars. If the handle were gone that would be definately noticable. These type of handles are flush to the car, the paint colour and photo angle in this picture makes it disappear. Hope that helps.

 

[antiquegirl]

Maybe the handles were removed so someone couldn't get OUT ?

Then, why remove the exterior handles and not the interior ones? They're two separate parts. Besides, the exterior handle can be seen in the Esso pic and we know that Tori was already deceased within hours after that. It makes no sense that he would take the time to remove any door handles within the few hours that Tori could have escaped from the back of that car. It would be much simpler to tie her up, wouldn't it?

MOO

 

[Mystic]

This is what I cant understand... either he made major changes, or there were 2 different cars. I honestly didnt think, when I first saw the pics LE released, that it was his car... but he could have changed out certian parts in order to disguise how it was. However, this theory doesnt lend true in light of the fact that the car from LE in the garage, and the Esso pic car look the same. This would mean it was the same car in both wouldnt it? Therefore, not the same car as far as I can tell that I knew him to have. JMO

You actually confirm some of my ideas that LE purposely touched up this picture to obscure it so the suspect would not think they were on to him... kwim Purhaps so they could in fact feel safely unsuspected. Gee's not even the gf or yourself could identify it as his car from the released pictures. I'm thinking LE was onto much early on. If they had the plate # from the Esso video, they definately had his idenity and address... so they wouldn't want to release a clear picture before they were ready to charge him. jmo

 

[antiquegirl]

You actually confirm some of my ideas that LE purposely touched up this picture to obscure it so the suspect would not think they were on to him... kwim Purhaps so they could in fact feel safely unsuspected. Gee's not even the gf or yourself could identify it as his car from the released pictures. I'm thinking LE was onto much early on. If they had the plate # from the Esso video, they definately had his idenity and address... so they wouldn't want to release a clear picture before they were ready to charge him. jmo

Respectfully, these pics were released after both suspects were already in custody.

 

[maxfactor]

Then, why remove the exterior handles and not the interior ones? They're two separate parts. Besides, the exterior handle can be seen in the Esso pic and we know that Tori was already deceased within hours after that. It makes no sense that he would take the time to remove any door handles within the few hours that Tori could have escaped from the back of that car. It would be much simpler to tie her up, wouldn't it?

MOO

I was being sarcastic, I admit it, I'm very frustrated with all of this, a beautiful little girl murdered, so many unanswered questions. It's awesome how everyone here is so great at sleuthing things out but my gut is telling me that MR did what he was accused of doing. I find it distasteful trying to make excuses for him.Not that I'm saying you are AG. But that's just MOO

 

[antiquegirl]

I was being sarcastic, I admit it, I'm very frustrated with all of this, a beautiful little girl murdered, so many unanswered questions. It's awesome how everyone here is so great at sleuthing things out but my gut is telling me that MR did what he was accused of doing. I find it distasteful trying to make excuses for him.Not that I'm saying you are AG. But that's just MOO

I understand. I think everyone is just trying to get at the truth and that means separating the wheat from the chaff. Everybody is entitled to speculate, but if that speculation makes no logical sense, it's part of sleuthing to point out the errors in the logic and explain why. We may never get to the truth, but it certainly doesn't help to have misinformation put out there without exploring the flaws in the arguments. There is a lot of "barking up the wrong tree" and "grasping at straws", which is natural, but I think we need to narrow things down, especially when there are so few actual known facts in this case.

And that's MOO.