Suspect Vehicle

[Mystic]

Respectfully, these pics were released after both suspects were already in custody.

I went to look and yes your correct.

At this point it just beats me why the pictures released to media are not a true reflection. DC said the actual picutres LE have are clear.

I'd think if they want info an accurate pic would be released.

 

[margaret_diane]

Maybe le was in a hurry to get pictures out to media so that's why they are do crappy? Of course then that just begs the question "WHY"!?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I totally see what you're saying OLG, and, from reading your posts in the past, I know it's because you truly care about people. :blowkiss: However, DC appears to be able to handle herself quite well on here from what I've seen. She also doesn't answer anything that would interfere with the case IMO and doesn't speculate about things she doesn't know about. I think it was brave of her to start posting on here in the first place and then to reveal that she is MTR's girlfriend. I truly enjoy her insight. I will wait for all of the evidence in this case to be revealed, before I decide who is guilty and who is not, but I do appreciate hearing from friends and girlfriends of MTR and hearing a totally different perspective. MOO.

Oh me too, I have gone back and read all her posts (a heck of a woman! to stand true to what you believe and those you love regardless of what anyone says is, to me, an extremely likeable and respectable quality!) and am very thankful to have her input as well as the input from other insiders. Can't beat the information that comes from people who know "suspects" irl ,imo.

However, being a felon I realize the massive amount of things that LE and the courts can and often do hold against people while accused of crimes. That was my only concern.

DC, I hope you don't think I meant anything else by my post. I am grateful you are here to offer us insight into who MR is. At this point in this case, I'm not convinced he's done anything wrong. I pray everything works out good! :blowkiss:

 

[Enchanting_eyes]

You know it took me a good long while to convince myself that the car in the Esso pic was not a Dodge Neon, as that is what I immediately thought of when I saw the picture the first time. I don't think I am fully convinced that it's not either,but I digress.

However I will say this. The car has been clearly modified and it looks like a racing car, which in those it is not unusual to have the backseat missing as it makes the car lighter. So if he was into street racing I would not find it that odd to have the backseat missing.


E*E

 

[nurse_sleuth]

DC is correct, he didnt make any changes to the car in the time she knew him. I can only state that however, up until the Friday night before his arrest... however, both cars look the same in Esso pic, and police pics. I did however see 11" by 14" pics of the car when with LE one day. It was a much better quality then the ones online, and showed a lot more detail of the exterior. IMO it didnt look like his car that I knew him to have from colours, rims, tires, ect.

Both Wendell and DC have explained that both of these pics by LE are very deceiving in that they're poor quality photocopies. Both have confirmed that it's MTR's car, although it looks quite different in these two pictures. DC has said that he made no changes to his car from the time she met him on April 13th until the day he was arrested on May 19th.

My thoughts on this are:

(a) If MTR wanted to disguise his (extremely distinctive looking) vehicle after April 8th, no matter how incompetent he was, he could have done a much better job of it. Both pictures released by LE look pretty much the same.

(b) Why change the license plates, but not re-paint the car a totally different colour, hide it, or get rid of it? The description and video were out there for all to see. No one knew the license number, not even LE until May 15th. At that time, MTR was interviewed at home and he should have known that LE would have both his license number and the description of his car. Presumably, it was sitting in the driveway when LE arrived to interrogate him.

(c) LE only had MTR's car for a couple of days before releasing these pics. Is anyone suggesting that in that short time frame they found an identical make and model, duplicated the intricate paint job (outside and in) and the fake hood vent, and pawned it off on the public as MTR's car? Why? When they had the real deal in their possession?

(d) Why would MTR get rid of his original clunker and get another identical one, only to make it look just like the one he used to have, including removing the back seat? Seems like a silly way to waste money. Why not just ditch the old car (if he had something to hide) and get an entirely different one?

Occam's Razon once again. The simplest explanation is that the car in the two photos is in fact MTR's and that there have been no alterations to it since at least April 13th when DC first saw it, as she claims.

MOO

 

[roseofsharon]

It's just from the photo. I have no idea why he would remove the handles if he did. I've asked several people to look at that photo to see if they could see a handle there and they could not so it's not just me. Maybe he didn't want anyone entering the vehicle in the back? who knows? DC stated herself that she took off one of the door handles herself by accident. Maybe forensics took off the handles to be examined for prints/evidence? I made a list of possible changes made to his car based on photos and info provided by posters on here.

Could it be that if the handles were removed outside the car, this would prevent exiting from the back seat? I'm no mechanical brain, but just a thought?

 

[antiquegirl]

Could it be that if the handles were removed outside the car, this would prevent exiting from the back seat? I'm no mechanical brain, but just a thought?

Would you mind reading my post #36 in this thread and letting me know what you think? TIA

 

[Enchanting_eyes]

Regarding the door handle removal. It appears to be that the car is a Honda civic, since it is not a hatchback or coupe ( the two door modals) but a sedan, it was standard to have child safety locks on the doors.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_safety.aspx?year=2003&make=Honda&model=Civic

Removing the handles doesn't make much sense.

E*E

 

[braindrained]

Maybe le was in a hurry to get pictures out to media so that's why they are do crappy? Of course then that just begs the question "WHY"!?

Perhaps by the time LE copies the pics then faxes them to the media then the media scans them into their news copy, photos lose a lot of detail?

 

[antiquegirl]

I was reading about this screenshot on another site, and a major discrepancy was pointed out that I don't think we noticed before. Now, this can be either another error by the media, or just plain lousy arithmetic by the gas station owner. Either way, it further confuses an already muddled issue that could be quite important to the time line.

According to The Star:

"The photograph had the time 4:24:29 printed on it but Patel said the time monitor on his surveillance cameras is about an hour ahead and he put the actual time at about 3:32 or 3:33 p.m."

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...tel&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

This would make the clock actually 51 or 52 minutes fast, but only approximately.

But, the Guelph Mercury writes:

"The photograph had the time 4:24:29 printed on it, but Patel said the time monitor on his surveillance cameras is an hour and a few minutes ahead and he put the actual time at about 3:32 or 3:33 p.m."

http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/486208

If this is true and accurate, it makes a huge difference. An hour and a few minutes ahead would take the time back not to 3:32 or 3:33, but (using the one hour plus 8 or 9 minutes difference) but to 3:16 or 3:15 - well before Tori was even let out of school.

IMO, there is so much ambiguity about Mr. Patel's statement, and so much doubt about the accuracy of the media, that we can't definitively determine exactly what time that screenshot was taken.

MOO

 

[Turbododger]

I'm wondering if he changed the whole rear door. It's just really odd that there isn't a door handle, not even an indent where one would be.

You know, Max, you could be right.

He either changed the whole door (possible)

OR

LE cloned over where the handle was (because they removed it for DNA testing, and didn't want the distraction of a hole with no handle???).

 

[Turbododger]

This is what I cant understand... either he made major changes, or there were 2 different cars. I honestly didnt think, when I first saw the pics LE released, that it was his car... but he could have changed out certian parts in order to disguise how it was. However, this theory doesnt lend true in light of the fact that the car from LE in the garage, and the Esso pic car look the same. This would mean it was the same car in both wouldnt it? Therefore, not the same car as far as I can tell that I knew him to have. JMO

Both Wendell and DC have explained that both of these pics by LE are very deceiving in that they're poor quality photocopies. Both have confirmed that it's MTR's car, although it looks quite different in these two pictures. DC has said that he made no changes to his car from the time she met him on April 13th until the day he was arrested on May 19th.

My thoughts on this are:

(a) If MTR wanted to disguise his (extremely distinctive looking) vehicle after April 8th, no matter how incompetent he was, he could have done a much better job of it. Both pictures released by LE look pretty much the same.

(b) Why change the license plates, but not re-paint the car a totally different colour, hide it, or get rid of it? The description and video were out there for all to see. No one knew the license number, not even LE until May 15th. At that time, MTR was interviewed at home and he should have known that LE would have both his license number and the description of his car. Presumably, it was sitting in the driveway when LE arrived to interrogate him.

Occam's Razon once again. The simplest explanation is that the car in the two photos is in fact MTR's and that there have been no alterations to it since at least April 13th when DC first saw it, as she claims.

MOO

Nurse says:

1. MTR must have made major changes, she didn't think it was his car, it fooled her, and she had looked it over in fine detail

Wendell and DC say:

1. It was MTR's car, even though it looked so differnt than the vehicles they knew him to have, but THEN DC says that he made no changes???? If it looked different, the he must have made changes.

2. Perhaps if there were distractions on Monday, DC didn't notice the changes that MTR made to his vehicle. Perhaps DC didn't see the colour difference in the dark on Monday, and didn't notice before going to work etc. on Tuesday (or he was gone before her) on Tuesday, so in her mind, "he never changed the car".

Both Pics (Esso and LE) Look the Same:

1. Both pics may "appear" the same, but the Esso picture is, IMO, deliberately black and white (when the car was really mostly blue at the time), and the LE picture is in colour, when the car was mostly black. He DID repaint the car, and he did alter the car enough that his GF and her friend did not recognize it.

2. There is definitely a handle on the back door of the Esso pic, and definitely "not" a handle on the back door of the LE pic. So, therefore, LE either "cloned" their pic, because the handle was missing (removed for DNA?) and they didn't want a hole there for distraction, or MTR removed either the handle or replaced the door (though I think if he removed the handle there would be a "hole" indent.)

3. I think LE deliberately made the Esso pic black and white, to poll potential witnesses to this car during both the abduction time (HD, after all, if they needed witnesses to his car being at the Esso Station, they would have asked, wouldn't they?) and anytime prior to May 19th.

 

[antiquegirl]

You know, Max, you could be right.

He either changed the whole door (possible)

OR

LE cloned over where the handle was (because they removed it for DNA testing, and didn't want the distraction of a hole with no handle???).

With all due respect, I'm just stumped as to how DNA would get on an exterior car door handle in the first place and then still be there after the car was exposed to the elements for six weeks, not to mention supposedly having gone through at least one car wash.

 

[matou]

With all due respect, I'm just stumped as to how DNA would get on an exterior car door handle in the first place and then still be there after the car was exposed to the elements for six weeks, not to mention supposedly having gone through at least one car wash.

Fingerprints could remain on the inner edge of the handle, evidence could be well protected by the outside of the handle. I'm not sure if even a car wash could clean the inner edge surface of the handle. One would have to wipe the insides of the handles clean to get rid of print evidence. Maybe DNA evidence from the hand of the perp who had bodily fluids and then opened the back door. I think evidence could remain trapped there for awhile.

 

[maxfactor]

Fingerprints could remain on the inner edge of the handle, evidence could be well protected by the outside of the handle. I'm not sure if even a car wash could clean the inner edge surface of the handle. One would have to wipe the insides of the handles clean to get rid of print evidence. Maybe DNA evidence from the hand of the perp who had bodily fluids and then opened the back door. I think evidence could remain trapped there for awhile.

This is actually what I was wondering. perhaps there was let's say, a mess on the inside of the door that he couldn't clean off so he changed the whole door.

 

[antiquegirl]

Nurse says:

1. MTR must have made major changes, she didn't think it was his car, it fooled her, and she had looked it over in fine detail

Wendell and DC say:

1. It was MTR's car, even though it looked so differnt than the vehicles they knew him to have, but THEN DC says that he made no changes???? If it looked different, the he must have made changes.

I think all three women are referring to the pictures of the car released in the media, looking so different from MTR's car, not that the car itself had changed in appearance. This is why Nurse thought he must have made changes to the car - because the pics looked different from the real thing. DC said that the car didn't change - it was the lousy quality of the pictures that made it look like two different cars.

2. Perhaps if there were distractions on Monday, DC didn't notice the changes that MTR made to his vehicle. Perhaps DC didn't see the colour difference in the dark on Monday, and didn't notice before going to work etc. on Tuesday (or he was gone before her) on Tuesday, so in her mind, "he never changed the car".

Again, why would he try to change the appearance of the car and still have it look so similar? By the time Nurse saw the car, MTR had already been interviewed by LE, with his car sitting in his driveway. LE would have had a description of the car and his license plate number. There was no point in trying to disguise it by then. And why do it before then? He obviously didn't know there was video footage of it. If he suspected there was, he would have done a better job. Both the Esso pic and the on the one in LE's garage look the same.

B]Both Pics (Esso and LE) Look the Same:[/B]

1. Both pics may "appear" the same, but the Esso picture is, IMO, deliberately black and white (when the car was really mostly blue at the time), and the LE picture is in colour, when the car was mostly black. He DID repaint the car, and he did alter the car enough that his GF and her friend did not recognize it.

You can see colour in the Esso picture - the red tail light on the car behind MTR's, the burgundy van on the road, and the green grass to the right. I think it just looks somewhat black and white because the car is mostly black, the driver is wearing white, the asphalt is grey, and the quality of the image just plain awful. Who said the car was mostly blue? Wendell said it was painted black like that long before the abduction,. It was only blue around the front bumper. This is what she wrote on May 27th:

"it turned into a black muddy looking mess that he never finished, and was done long enough ago as there was rust starting to come through the muddy black paint you see in the photos online."

(BBM) The GF and her friend did not recognize it in the LE pictures, not the car itself.

B]2. There is definitely a handle on the back door of the Esso pic, and definitely "not" a handle on the back door of the LE pic. So, therefore, LE either "cloned" their pic, because the handle was missing (removed for DNA?) and they didn't want a hole there for distraction, or MTR removed either the handle or replaced the door (though I think if he removed the handle there would be a "hole" indent.)[/B]

Well, it's very hard to see the back handle, but one of our members circled it and said she can see it. I think it was another poster who said it's the angle of the car and the poor quality of the picture. As in my previous post, I can see no logical reason for removing either the handle or changing the door.

The only DNA that could conceivably be on that door handle would be Tori's perspiration if she opened the door herself. That would have been six weeks prior to the seizure of the car. I seriously doubt there would be even a trace of it left after car washes and rains for six weeks. If anyone is thinking blood, the same goes for that and even if still there, it could certainly be verified by lab technicians without actually removing the handle.

3. I think LE deliberately made the Esso pic black and white, to poll potential witnesses to this car during both the abduction time (HD, after all, if they needed witnesses to his car being at the Esso Station, they would have asked, wouldn't they?) and anytime prior to May 19th.

But why? If LE wanted witnesses to the car, wouldn't it be better to show as accurate an image of it as possible? If the car was a different colour then, changing that to black and white would only eliminate witnesses. If they wanted witnesses to see the way it looked in the garage, why release the Esso picture at all?

Also, it's a lot easier to convert an entire colour picture to black and white than to do just part of it. If LE had wanted a B/W image shown, all it takes is one click in a Photoshop program - no need to fiddle with changing just the car.

Sorry, I'm trying to understand, but I just can't.

 

[antiquegirl]

This is actually what I was wondering. perhaps there was let's say, a mess on the inside of the door that he couldn't clean off so he changed the whole door.

Drivenchick has said that MTR made no changes to his car from the time she met him on April 13th until his arrest on May 19th. Let's presume that this is true. If so, he would have had five days (April 9 - April 13) to find a matching rear door, pick it up or have it shipped, and then replicate the godawful spray paint job to match the rest of the car.

I did a search to see how available and how much a rear door like this would be. Here's what I found:

http://www.autobodypartsonline.com/...catid=1069&sid=77CBJv2DvJY2891-33109024369.12

This one is $287.95 U.S. before taxes, shipping cost and duty. If he ordered one like this from the U.S., it would take weeks to arrive.

IF he was really lucky and spent hours on the phone, maybe ... just maybe ... he'd be able to find a wrecker who had one cheaper. But would it be close enough for him to pick it up? He'd then have to remove the old one, replace it with the new one, and do the painting to match. All in five days.

And then I must ask, if LE is so open about looking for the missing car seat (presumably for DNA evidence), why aren't they asking the public's help in looking for the discarded car door?

Just putting it out there. MOO

 

[Alison]

I also believe that the handle is there and that it is the angle and quality of the picture.

 

[Turbododger]

In regards to your question about the door handle, Antiquegirl, LE took the handle of MTR's bedroom door (in addition to EVERYTHING he owned) from his house, so it IS possible LE took the handle off the door of the car, then cloned the door handle hole in the pic to obscure it being missing.

 

[antiquegirl]

In regards to your question about the door handle, Antiquegirl, LE took the handle of MTR's bedroom door (in addition to EVERYTHING he owned) from his house, so it IS possible LE took the handle off the door of the car, then cloned the door handle hole in the pic to obscure it being missing.

(BBM)

I don't know where you got this info, Turbo, but are you implying that LE suspected that Tori had been in MTR's bedroom? If so, why remove the doorknob and not just dust it for prints?

When the initial reason was given here as getting DNA from the handle, I didn't see the logic. Later, when someone suggested fingerprints from the inside of the handle, that sounded more feasible (Fingerprints are not DNA.)

But why would LE need to obscure the fact that it's missing? The car is impounded, they're on record as saying it's a suspect vehicle, and they can do whatever they want with it. The presence or lack of a handle doesn't change the appearance of the car. And if they did obscure it, they did such a lousy job of it that it seems obvious to you and some others that it is missing (while a few can still see it).

I'm trying to add two and two here to get four, but it's not adding up for me.

I'd like to repeat that this is a poor-quality, low resolution photo that was faxed to the media, then re-printed, going through several processes before it reached our eyes. The car is at an angle and the door handles are recessed. Three people who have seen the car in person have said that neither this picture nor the Esso one looks much like the real thing.

Regardless, even if LE removed both MTR's doorknob and car door handle, it only proves that they're being thorough - not that they have found anything. We'll have to wait for the trial for that.

MOO