Tape on Jon Benets mouth - New info

[bettybaby00]

:lol:
All I know is LS gave AH a freebie 'n said the intruder wore the note before he killed her && PP said it took the intruder months to learn how to copy PR's handwriting. All these discrepancies just eggacerbate my confusion!

Who the heck is PP?

The cast of characters is eggceptionally long, and eggceedingly difficult to follow!!!

 

[questfortrue]

Who the heck is PP?

The cast of characters is eggceptionally long, and eggceedingly confusing!!!!

PR sister Pam!

 

[bettybaby00]

PR sister Pam!

Ahhhh, I thank you for your eggpertise!

 

[DeDee]

From Haney's interview with Patsy:

Fur Items They Own:
Black mink coat, Men's leather jacket with fur lining, mink hat with earmuffs, mink after ski boots with leopard fur

(0304-12) THOMAS HANEY: How about a fur coat, did you have fur coats? PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I had fur coats. THOMAS HANEY: Was it at the house or in storage or -- PATSY RAMSEY: It was at the house, black mink. THOMAS HANEY: Mink, okay. How about boots, gloves, jackets, other things that would have had fur on it? PATSY RAMSEY: There is a leather jacket that has a fur lining, men's leather jacket. It was John's. It was reversible. THOMAS HANEY: Do you know what type of fur that would have been? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it was like real low cut, black shiny pile. THOMAS HANEY: Was it real fur? PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. THOMAS HANEY: Real fur? Okay. And he had gloves, hats?

(0305-09) PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, I had a black mink like muffler kind of hat, like a ring kind of thing you wear, two balls hanging down, earmuffs kind of thing. Two balls hanging down. THOMAS HANEY: That was mink also? PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. I had a pair of after-ski boots, black, I don't know what kind of fur it was. Technica or something like that. It had like a little Indian braiding around it or something, black fringe. It was kind of, I don't know, leopard fur kind of thing. THOMAS HANEY: Was it artificial? PATSY RAMSEY: No, I think it's real, but it was probably mink or something. THOMAS HANEY: Anything else in 49? PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Patsy owned a black mink coat, mink muffler and black after ski boots with leopard fur...mink or something. Something like beaver?

The animal hairs on JonBenét's hand were probably from some pet she touched over the past couple of days of not bathing. Maybe even held a dog or gerbil at the White's or while playing at her friend's home on Christmas Eve afternoon.

The victim's hands were kinda dirty as exhibited by the fibers located under her gold filigree ring and the degraded DNA under her fingernails. Lou Smit stated one of her fingers indicated she struggled against her attacker and her DNA is under a fingernail scraping [by the contaminated clippers - my assumption, not Lou's].

A foreign news organization published this story on April 14, 2012. There are probably 20 pictures...some I had not ever seen published but none indicative of criminal activity.

http://www.taringa.net/posts/offtopic/14554642/Inocencia-arrebatada-crimen-de-JonBenet-Ramsey.html

If you don't understand the eggsact language and cannot translate the article, it can be said that they are reporting that Vanity Fair declares the Ramsey couple were having sexual escapades with their daughter.

But, then, I could not find a VF article to match so perhaps my translation is erroneous.

 

[bettybaby00]

From Haney's interview with Patsy:

Fur Items They Own:
Black mink coat, Men's leather jacket with fur lining, mink hat with earmuffs, mink after ski boots with leopard fur



Patsy owned a black mink coat, mink muffler and black after ski boots with leopard fur...mink or something. Something like beaver?

The animal hairs on JonBenét's hand were probably from some pet she touched over the past couple of days of not bathing. Maybe even held a dog or gerbil at the White's or while playing at her friend's home on Christmas Eve afternoon.

The victim's hands were kinda dirty as exhibited by the fibers located under her gold filigree ring and the degraded DNA under her fingernails. Lou Smit stated one of her fingers indicated she struggled against her attacker and her DNA is under a fingernail scraping by the contaminated clippers.

A foreign news organization published this story on April 14, 2012. There are probably 20 pictures...some I had not ever seen published but none indicative of criminal activity.

http://www.taringa.net/posts/offtopic/14554642/Inocencia-arrebatada-crimen-de-JonBenet-Ramsey.html

If you don't understand the eggsact language and cannot translate the article, it can be said that they are reporting that Vanity Fair declares the Ramsey couple were having sexual escapades with their daughter.

But, then, I could not find a VF article to match so perhaps my translation is erroneous.

Yikes. Lots of misinformation in the article. Some cute pics though.

 

[Anti-K]

Well I'm drawing that conclusion. You posted



Unless I'm reading this wrong, Smit, under oath, is stating that "no animal hairs can be sourced to the house." This is "ascertained" by the video taken by Det. A.

Yet there is testimony by PR about the various fur items she and John owned.

PRs statements appear to contradict what Smit is testifying to, as do Det. Ts.

Without the benefit of a subpoena or warrant to compare the Rs fur clothing/accessories to what was found on JRB, I think stating something like this as fact is misleading, and it could certainly be characterized as less then truthful.

Just the way I see it.

There is no contradiction. Smit says that the animal hairs and beaver hair/fur was not sourced to the house. There may have been items in the house that were made of, or incorporated hair/fur but the hair/fur found in incriminating locations on the victim didn’t match any of them – they were not sourced to the house.
...

AK

 

[bettybaby00]

There is no contradiction. Smit says that the animal hairs and beaver hair/fur was not sourced to the house. There may have been items in the house that were made of, or incorporated hair/fur but the hair/fur found in incriminating locations on the victim didn’t match any of them – they were not sourced to the house.
...

AK

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.​

"ANY HAIR OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ANIMAL HAIRS IN THE HOUSE?"

There were no warrants or subpoenas to test clothing that were made of fur, or had fur trim that belonged to R family. How then can the assertion of "didn't match, were not sourced to the house," be stated as a fact?

 

[Anti-K]

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.​

"ANY HAIR OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ANIMAL HAIRS IN THE HOUSE?"

There were no warrants or subpoenas to test clothing that were made of fur, or had fur trim that belonged to R family. How then can the assertion of "didn't match, were not sourced to the house," be stated as a fact?

Because they looked for a match, and none were found.
...


AK

 

[midwest mama]

Well I'm drawing that conclusion. You posted



Unless I'm reading this wrong, Smit, under oath, is stating that "no animal hairs can be sourced to the house." This is "ascertained" by the video taken by Det. A.

Yet there is testimony by PR about the various fur items she and John owned.

PRs statements appear to contradict what Smit is testifying to, as do Det. Ts.

Without the benefit of a subpoena or warrant to compare the Rs fur clothing/accessories to what was found on JRB, I think stating something like this as fact is misleading, and it could certainly be characterized as less then truthful.

Just the way I see it.

Since it is Easter weekend, and otg gave us a nice lead in, I'll just say, "eggsactamundo" to your post.

IIRC, there was either a photo or a report of John's black leather coat with the fur lining being seen over the back of one of the kitchen/dining area chairs. DeeDee249, do you remember this too?

And let's remember that Pam went in and swept through the house removing items to give to the R's, so easy enough to take that coat and PR's boots to keep them from being found later during any further removal of items by police.

If there were at least those two items and Patsy's mink, and no animal hairs were found from them, it wouldn't be too surprising, since those type of items are not supposed to shed. The furs are chosen specifically for being retentive. I have a mink stroller, and it does not shed, and since it is stored in a protective bag when I'm not wearing it, all the more reason not to have hairs in my closet. I believe the same should hold true for sheared beaver, which is the most common way to use that type of fur in clothing. The Ramsey fur items could have easily been placed into protective storage bags/coverings when not in use by them.

However, if JB would have grabbed at anything being worn by her perpetrator, then I could see hairs loosening into her hand.

Or, if JR was wearing his leather jacket with the fur lining, and JB was awake enough to hold on to him while being carried at some time Christmas evening during their travels into and out of the car, maybe some transfer of hairs at that time?

Also, badger fur is used commonly for paint brush bristles. If there is no actual report of the fur in JB's hand showing a match to beaver, is it possible the hairs could have been badger (similar enough to a beaver?) and from the bristle end of the broken paintbrush found later in the tray? Not a stretch to envision her grabbing at that brush if it did cause her scream.

PS: :cheerful: Happy Easter everyone! Because He Arose, we know JB is with Him in eternal glory. :Crown:

 

[questfortrue]

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.​

"ANY HAIR OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ANIMAL HAIRS IN THE HOUSE?"

There were no warrants or subpoenas to test clothing that were made of fur, or had fur trim that belonged to R family. How then can the assertion of "didn't match, were not sourced to the house," be stated as a fact?

One notation regarding the lack of animal hair/fiber evidence in the home. The statement from LS references a search done by Det. A armed with tape, looking for hair/fiber evidence, particularly in the master bedroom closet. However, it’s relevant to consider the timing of that search, which was July 1997. In the preceding four months (prior to July 1997), movers had removed all family belongings and painters, carpenters and cleaners had scoured the place. (ST book) There would not reasonably be anything left to find, imo.

 

[bettybaby00]

One notation regarding the lack of animal hair/fiber evidence in the home. The statement from LS references a search done by Det. A armed with tape, looking for hair/fiber evidence, particularly in the master bedroom closet. However, it’s relevant to consider the timing of that search, which was July 1997. In the preceding four months (prior to July 1997), movers had removed all family belongings and painters, carpenters and cleaners had scoured the place. (ST book) There would not reasonably be anything left to find, imo.

Eggaxctly!

And as I said earlier, no warrants, subpoenas to TEST their belongings makes such an assertion faulty.

 

[Tawny]

They looked for a match and were blocked in their efforts to find one.

 

[bettybaby00]

They looked for a match and were blocked in their efforts to find one.

And yet, under oath it's asserted as fact that the "hairs" couldn't be sourced to the home.

 

[DeeDee249]

And yet, under oath it's asserted as fact that the "hairs" couldn't be sourced to the home.

Of course they couldn't. The fur boots had reportedly "disappeared". And as we know, the house was whitewashed (literally). Every carpet was pulled out. Every scrap of wallpaper stripped. The walls were painted white. All furniture and personal belongings removed.
Then to have the audacity to say they "looked" and couldn't find a match..

 

[gramcracker]

Of course they couldn't. The fur boots had reportedly "disappeared". And as we know, the house was whitewashed (literally). Every carpet was pulled out. Every scrap of wallpaper stripped. The walls were painted white. All furniture and personal belongings removed.

Then to have the audacity to say they "looked" and couldn't find a match..

wrong thread, but I have to add: the hidden motion-activated video cameras discovered by BPD during one of their investigative walk-throughs. now THAT's what innocent people do! after getting caught, they said it was a deterrent for ghouls. GMAFB, that's what security systems are for. how think do they dumb we are?

 

[bettybaby00]

wrong thread, but I have to add: the hidden motion-activated video cameras discovered by BPD during one of their investigative walk-throughs. now THAT's what innocent people do! after getting caught, they said it was a deterrent for ghouls. GMAFB, that's what security systems are for. how think do they dumb we are?

Reminds me of the whole war room hacking incident.

 

[DeDee]

There is a current discussion on the Patsy thread about this very topic.

The odor the officers smelled in her bathroom was the odor of peroxide/bleach, and not associated with the "odor of decay" that Arndt detected when the body was brought up. We know PR colored both her own hair and JBR's. Most commercial hair coloring products have peroxide in them, whether they are for blonde or dark hair. The odor could have been from recent hair coloring. The coroner states in his report that JBR's hair "appears freshly (evenly) colored. I have read that PR had a hard time getting local salons to dye the hair of such a young child, and she may have done it herself at home.

RSBM

I always thought peroxide was odorless. The officers may have said peroxide but they meant ammonia, imhoo.

Maybe the LEO senses were assaulted by the ever-present acrid odor of urine in her bedroom and feces deposited onto clothing items and smeared on edible chocolate candy that was left out on the floor, and the pervasive smell from the old urine spots on the carpet, the feces wiped onto the surface outside the doorframe to the basement's bathroom and repulsed by the odor of an unflushed potty in JBs bathroom where more dirty britches lay on the bathroom floor.

Why all the dirtiness, as Nedra was apt to say?

RSBM

Now livor mortis patterns tell us that the body was not moved while livor mortis was still in the blanching stage. After livor becomes fixed, also known as non-blanching, (a matter of hours), then no new livor patterns will form even if the body is moved. So if JBR was not in the wineceller when FW first looked in the early AM, it could certainly have been that JR moved her there when he did his 2-hour disappearance to "get the mail" - from his FRONT DOOR. By that time, which Det. Arndt stated was around 10 AM, livor would have been fixed, with death occurring approx. 10 hours earlier, and she could have been moved without anyone being able to tell.

Great info to know about the possibility of moving the body after livor has become fixed, DeeDee.

Upon reflecting back, exactly what FW must have thought when JR opened the same WC door he had already opened, just a few hours earlier, when he did not see her there, nor her white blanket, may never be revealed since there may never be a trial compelling the truth be told.

OMO