Terri obtained new cell phones from friends to avoid investigator's scrutiny

[cypress]

This is one of those things that can go either way, IMHO.

Kaine is the primary bread winner in the family. It's likely Kaine paid Terri's cell phone bill. I doubt he wants to continue paying her cell phone bill, so she found herself without a cell phone. It's possible she vented to a friend or friends who she either asked to buy the phone or phones for her, or they offered to buy a phone for her. It's possible Houze instructed Terri to buy a disposable phone. It's possible Houze provided her with a disposable phone. Disposable cell phones are easier to deal with because you can pay for the minutes on an as needed basis. No credit is required, etc. It's possible she has two phones -- one for friends and relatives, one specifically for Houze.

Or, she could be guilty as hell, and this is just another example of extremely poor, self-destructive behavior on her part.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

Well we all enjoy our privacy, but hey, c'mon, if you were being looked at because your 7 yr. old stepson has been missing since the 4th. of June, and if you are innocent, then why this "sleazy type of behaviour??? It just makes her look even more guilty and possibly LE even more suspicious of her behaviour i would think!
In something like this when desperately trying to locate Kyron and what might have happened to him, would you really be worried about your privacy in regard to needing to have "private convos" with whom??? Wouldn't you want to co operate as much as you could to have Kyron found? Everything else would be of a secondary nature surely!

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

Guess i was also trying to say why couldn't she just go and get her own phone, or if she is being harassed when out in public, maybe she could of got her lawyer to get her a phone with all that money she has supposedly paid him to defend her???

 

[cypress]

Well we all enjoy our privacy, but hey, c'mon, if you were being looked at because your 7 yr. old stepson has been missing since the 4th. of June, and if you are innocent, then why this "sleazy type of behaviour??? It just makes her look even more guilty and possibly LE even more suspicious of her behaviour i would think!
In something like this when desperately trying to locate Kyron and what might have happened to him, would you really be worried about your privacy in regard to needing to have "private convos" with whom??? Wouldn't you want to co operate as much as you could to have Kyron found? Everything else would be of a secondary nature surely!

It's a strong possibility that Houze either gave her one of the cell phones or instructed her to buy one. He needs to be able to reach her at a moment's notice. It stands to reason, since Terri didn't have a job but we know she had a cell phone, that Kaine was paying her cell phone bill. It also stands to reason that he is no longer paying her cell phone bill.

The cell phone issue may be further proof of her guilt, but IMHO, there are reasonable explanations for why she'd have one and possibly two. For instance, if Houze either instructed her to buy a disposable phone or gave her a phone, she's probably only supposed to use that phone in connection to him. It's possible she was frustrated by not having access to anyone else, especially if she's a tech head, and a friend purchased a phone for her.

I just think automatically assuming she has a phone or phones to avoid LE is unnecessary. It could be true, but other explanations are just as, if perhaps not more, likely, IMHO.

Also, it's worth repeating that Terri was cooperating with LE, perhaps to her detriment, prior to hiring Houze. If she's trying to legally fly under LE's radar, it could be on Houze's orders.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Dee, maybe she isn't using her parents' housephone because her attorney told her not to. There's the chance that LE got a warrant to tap that phone, and if they did, they do not have to tell her or the parents.

Also, folks who are attached to their cell phones, etc. etc. at the hip just "need" one. Imagine if we lost all our connectivity, from computer to laptop to cell phone to (gasp!) Kindle. Losing that connectivity would be a huge stressor for someone like her who used FB, etc. etc. and her cell phone all the time. .

And she just might want to talk to friends. She's pretty much cooped up in that house.

*snip*

. . . In essence, she's under siege. In that case, send a friend to do the errands. IMHO

You know what? :boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:

The smallest violins in the world are playing a sad song for her phone deprivation and her cooped up life. Also her lack of running around doing errands or going to the gym.

Cry me a river, sorry.

Now if she could just tell us exactly what she did on the day Kyron disappeared I would take all that back.

ETA: To me that is just like that Tony guy from BP telling the people of the Gulf that he "wants his life back." What about Kyron's life? How much fun is he having?

He can't even call home and talk to his Daddy or Mother.

 

[Kat010]

Fox, I don't think anyone is crying a river for TH. Not at all. In my case, I'm simply looking at the situation and then trying to analyze all possible reasons why someone did something.

The more a person, situation, and actions are analyzed, the more there is to learn. That's why LE picks at everything.

The *fact* is that she can't easily go shopping without some degree of risk for at least nasty looks and maybe even more. I attach no emotional value to that fact.

This is one of those things that can go either way, IMHO.

Kaine is the primary bread winner in the family. It's likely Kaine paid Terri's cell phone bill. I doubt he wants to continue paying her cell phone bill, so she found herself without a cell phone. It's possible she vented to a friend or friends who she either asked to buy the phone or phones for her, or they offered to buy a phone for her. It's possible Houze instructed Terri to buy a disposable phone. It's possible Houze provided her with a disposable phone. Disposable cell phones are easier to deal with because you can pay for the minutes on an as needed basis. No credit is required, etc. It's possible she has two phones -- one for friends and relatives, one specifically for Houze.

Or, she could be guilty as hell, and this is just another example of extremely poor, self-destructive behavior on her part.

You know what? :boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:

The smallest violins in the world are playing a sad song for her phone deprivation and her cooped up life. Also her lack of running around doing errands or going to the gym.

Cry me a river, sorry.

Now if she could just tell us exactly what she did on the day Kyron disappeared I would take all that back.

ETA: To me that is just like that Tony guy from BP telling the people of the Gulf that he "wants his life back." What about Kyron's life? How much fun is he having?

He can't even call home and talk to his Daddy or Mother.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Fox, I don't think anyone is crying a river for TH. Not at all. In my case, I'm simply looking at the situation and then trying to analyze all possible reasons why someone did something.

The more a person, situation, and actions are analyzed, the more there is to learn. That's why LE picks at everything.

The *fact* is that she can't easily go shopping without some degree of risk for at least nasty looks and maybe even more. I attach no emotional value to that fact.

Shopping could be done by the same friends who bought her the phone.

But I guess you've got a point if the friends are convinced that Terri is suffering because she isn't holding a phone 24 hours a day in the midst of all her other problems.

Don't get me wrong, I know people who are just as addicted to technology. And my daughter has her IPhone going day and night. And here I sit online even while my supper cooks. But we aren't under suspicion in a MFH plot against a family member as well as a missing child case.

It's like the other day someone wrote that maybe it made Terri feel better to take nude pictures of herself and do some sexting after the restraining order came out. And in any other context, I would say - hey, it's a free country, go for it, whatever makes you feel better.

But in this context, it is just plain weird and not normal adult coping behavior, especially when she is already under scrutiny by her ex-husband, the media, LE, and the FBI. JMO

 

[IRule254]

I'm beginning to wonder just how many phones they gave her?

YES! Why more than one phone. That is the part that triggers my suspicious mind.

Otherwise, id just think she needed a phone and her friend payed because she was broke.

 

[Donjeta]

YES! Why more than one phone. That is the part that triggers my suspicious mind.

Otherwise, id just think she needed a phone and her friend payed because she was broke.

Maybe she used different phones to sext different guys and quoted different retainers for Houze in messages to different friends and waited to see which figures ended up in the press. :croc::croc:

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I don't think Terri was broke, because she did have ? a large amnt. of money to pay for a criminal defence attorney, wherever and from whoever that money came from exactly, and whatever the real amount???

 

[desquire]

This is one of those things that can go either way, IMHO.

Kaine is the primary bread winner in the family. It's likely Kaine paid Terri's cell phone bill. I doubt he wants to continue paying her cell phone bill, so she found herself without a cell phone. It's possible she vented to a friend or friends who she either asked to buy the phone or phones for her, or they offered to buy a phone for her.

Agreed. Even if Terri AND her friends are stupid, she has a lawyer to advise her who is not, so I'm inclined to go with the simplest innocent explanation. Her soon-to-be ex got her remioved from the home, changed the locks and has probably cut her off financially and cancelled the phone service. Her parents have forfeited their quiet existence to take her in and probably mortgaged their home and retirement savings to hire her lawyer, they probably don't have a surplus of cash right now. She still has friends who are willing to help herand her parents in any way they can, gifting the daily necessities of life that she now has no means to buy for herself like an espresson maker, Chinese take-out, the Twilight DVDs and disposable cell phones.

 

[Jack]

ITA that it's hard to dismiss all the TH behavior in it's totallity. And, although I'm still on the fence, I am leaning very heavily towards TH direct or indirect involvement. One thing I have learned from experience though, is even after using Occams Razor, what remains can still be very, very complicated.

IMO, this whole Occam's razor theory is being mis-used in this case. The theory doesn't mean that the simplest explanation is the best, it means not to add more layers than necessary to an end. Key word being "necessary". You don't leave out layers just to make an explanation simple, as there may be many layers that are "necessary" to come to a proper conclusion.

 

[Wings Of Light]

IMO, this whole Occam's razor theory is being mis-used in this case. The theory doesn't mean that the simplest explanation is the best, it means not to add more layers than necessary to an end. Key word being "necessary". You don't leave out layers just to make an explanation simple, as there may be many layers that are "necessary" to come to a proper conclusion.

Simplest way to think about Occam's Razor is the theory that uses the fewest assumptions.

 

[Mamietwo]

I completely agree with BBM. That is the catch for me...not that she had a new phone but WHO purchased it. Although, it could be said that at one point DD was the closest to her-so that would make sense on that level.

Could be worse for her- could have been MC that bought the phone. Now, how would that have looked!:waitasec:

Is it now just one phone? I think yesterday it was being said plural. If it is still plural, how do we know he didn't purchase one for her----or is the "friendship" over? Just kidding.

Do we know what name the phone is under? I mean if DD purchased it, is it in her name, or did she just give her the money and they went to one of those month to month places for a phone and the phone is in TH's name. If it's that way, that wouldn't be bad, DD just loaned her the money for a phone. So it's not looking like TH's trying to hide anything.

 

[revampz]

I personally dont know what the fuss is about!.......in this day and age who doesnt have a mobile phone.....bet it is a prepaid.......and if she was a smart woman who planned a childs murder maybe involving other people or using people as an alibi, I am sure she probably had a prepaid mobile before......the police would be tapping phones and watching her every move.....as are the media...moves that is.....I actually would think she would be stupid not to have a prepaid mobile phone.......

also I think it may even make the "catching her out" easier for the police if she has a mobile phone....cos suspecting her phone may be tapped, she'd be very careful what she said over that.........with a mobile she is more likely to organize get togethers etc with friends, or boyfriends or whatever, someone will have to give up some form of info eventually.

 

[ami]

Maybe she used different phones to sext different guys and quoted different retainers for Houze in messages to different friends and waited to see which figures ended up in the press. :croc::croc:

Well, that would be about the smartest move she's made yet...

The more I think about it, the more I think it's not the phone getting that is suspicious, it's that I **think** there would have been a way to get a new phone that didn't come across as shady.

The article was provocative because it implied that the discovery of the phones by LE sparked a search of the phone-gifters' property. Which would imply that by giving her the phone(s) they were helping Terri hide important stuff and LE wanted to find out what the important hidden stuff was. Now if that's actually the case - who knows.

I mean we all saw those reporters honking questions at Terri in the close-windowed car like a gaggle of geese and then writing a teaser report that stated they asked Terri some "tough questions". You watch the video and they were just asking q's into their microphones as Terri drove away. Had we not seen the video, what would we have thought?

On the other hand, there might be a *grain* of truth in their story - there's likely a new phone and why wouldn't there be, as most of us agree, because no way is she still carried on Kaine's family plan. A friend might have given it to her because she has no money and needed contact and communication and that's what friends are for. She was probably pleased and relieved not to be telephonically monitored by LE anymore (if they ever were doing that - do we have proof she was taped?). She was probably glad to hide the new phone(s) so she wouldn't have to deal. Maybe LE found out about the new phones and became suspicious enough to question her friends. Farther than that I'm not sure we can go...

 

[Wings Of Light]

IMO, having one hand tied behind your back makes it impossible to do that. By nowing for a fact that your client is guilty, you have to be more guarded to make sure you do not suborn perjury. If your client does not confess, you have more freedom because if someone did lie, you would not know it as a fact.

I'm just going to assume you didn't read my previous post. Read it.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5483444&postcount=350"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5483444&postcount=350[/ame]


Knowing a client is guilty does not change anything except for an attorney's ability to put their client on the stand. Hint: That almost never happens because regardless of guilt, putting the client on the stand is a huge risk. I.e. pretty much the only time this matters is when the client is crazy and insists on testifying. Even then, they still have to let the client on the stand.

 

[wondering1]

I'm just going to assume you didn't read my previous post (last post on the page before this one). Read it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5483444&postcount=350


Knowing a client is guilty does not change anything except for an attorney's ability to put their client on the stand. Hint: That almost never happens because regardless of guilt, putting the client on the stand is a huge risk. I.e. pretty much the only time this matters is when the client is crazy and insists on testifying. Even then, they still have to let the client on the stand.

Doesn't it also change what they can say in their opening and closing arguments? I would imagine it could also effect cross in some situations.

Just curious....

 

[AbbieNormal]

This is a myth.

Attorney's not testify in court, and therefore cannot be perjured.

If you don't tell your attorney what happened, they can't defend you and it's very likely they'll be blindsided in the courtroom. They want to know everything that happened so they are prepared for it.

And on a logical front. If you did commit the crime, where would you begin lying to your attorney about the series of events? Or would you just refuse to talk about it? (Rhetorical)

If Terri was completely honest with her atty and she is guilty of doing something to Kyron, wouldn't the truth include the location of where Kyron is right now? If her atty knows the "truth" and knows Kyrons location, or even knows he was dumped "somewhere" would it not be illegal for her atty to not divulge that info to LE/ Is it ok for Kyron to just lay out there somewhere w/ Terris atty's knowledge he's out there somewhere? I'm confused.

 

[BeanE]

If Terri was completely honest with her atty and she is guilty of doing something to Kyron, wouldn't the truth include the location of where Kyron is right now? If her atty knows the "truth" and knows Kyrons location, or even knows he was dumped "somewhere" would it not be illegal for her atty to not divulge that info to LE/ Is it ok for Kyron to just lay out there somewhere w/ Terris atty's knowledge he's out there somewhere? I'm confused.

One of our verified attorneys, AZlawyer, answered that in the Legal & Law Questions thread:

No, the attorney could not reveal his client's confession or information about where the body is, and certainly would not have to withdraw from the representation. The vast majority of criminal defendants are, in fact, guilty, so a criminal defense lawyer who insisted on representing only innocent people would get hungry pretty fast. My understanding is that defense attorneys discourage their clients from telling them such information, however, and focus on ensuring procedual fairness and getting the lowest possible sentence for a client who is obviously guilty.

This is why I could never be a defense attorney. The ethics are too complex for me lol. I prefer to sleep at night.

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