The “roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion”

[icedtea4me]

Hold on - did you say 'crawl space'?

That's the first time I've heard of this.

It fits in nicely with my theory about how this whole thing happened (See My Theories thread).

I thought maybe the R's had put her body in one of their cars out in the garage, (before John realised it was a mistake and used his 'hidden time' to go get the body and put her in the wine cellar)

So, you think that John was able to carry JonBenet's body from the garage, into the mudroom, through the hall, through the kitchen, and then down the stairs to the basement without being seen by a single person in that house?

 

[k-mac]

The R's game plan was to hope she was not discovered, i.e. assumed long gone and kidnapped. Then the R's would flee interstate by air and refuse to return.

.

yes this makes a lot of sense that this could have been the original game plan with JR making that phone call to arrange flight so quickly after JBs discovery. it was like he had to improvise (the cops wouldnt leave ) "find the body for them' so he could get back on track with the plan of escape. although he wasnt as clever and clear thinking as his arrogant ego would have us believe in that scenario.
what makes me hesitant to agree is JR didnt know when they rang 911 what police procedure would take place.
you would have to assume and anticipate that the house is going to be extensively sweeped by people trained to find anything suspicious ie a dead body of a missing person before LE would accept the kidnapping successful and leave the premises.

so it still sits for me (although i see merit this as possibility) that the RN and JBR were supposed to be found in quick succession.
sheer frustration to JR at the time that the cops were incompetent. (even though this worked for him eventually!!!!)

its just so disjointed JR ringing the pilot at that time i feel there is definately a connection to a previous point of staging.
jmho

 

[singularity]

Hold on - did you say 'crawl space'?

There was also a safe in the floor of the wine cellar.

Miz Adventure,
Yes, its an ad hoc theory of mine, so to explain why Fleet White never saw JonBenet the first time round, also offers a reason why JR vanished for a period that morning, he might also have tied the restraints and put the duct tape on JonBenet's mouth at the same time?
.

As crazy as it sounds it is certainly possible but icedtea brings up a valid point on the issue....

Is John seriously going to take a huge gamble and carry her body from point A to point B in that house? Even if moving her a very short distance, anyone could walk in on him doing the evil deed. Yes they were playing with a hand that seems as if dealt by satan himself but I think their luck might have run out had such a measure been taken.

The entire basement sequence is a huge anomaly and IMO we have never got the full story on that.

Miz Adventure.
BBM: Not quite. They invented an abduction and offered the ransom note as corroboration. It was a failed abduction because the kidnapper decided to assault JonBenet, resulting in her death so he put her in the wine-cellar. Of course the kidnapper is an intruder which Lou Smit then amplified.


The R's decided to fake injuries on JonBenet so to mask those that went before, so she was asphyxiated using the paintbrush handle and was possibly assaulted internally with the paintbrush. Of course, all behavior which only an intruder would inflict.

.

The entire scene is a series of paradoxes within a larger paradox. While I have never underestimated Patsy, it blows my mind that one if not both of these people were able to create this paradox within a matter of hours. It cant just be chalked up to police incompetence or DA corruption either because the paradox was set up before LE walked into the house.

 

[IridescentDreams]

Otg this is freakin amazing! I admire your dedication, you're certainly one to learn from. And Tortoise too. Phenomenal.

Yesterday, I was JDI with PR helping stage. Now I'm not so sure...

 

[comingforyou]

The shape between your thumb and index finger is a triangle when you hold your hand out and widen your fingers. I would not be suprised if this is where someone's hand went around JonBenet's throat causing that triangle shaped injury to that area of the throat.

One theory is that the "choking game" was played on JonBenet. The aim of the choking game is to pass out and then on release get a high from the blood flow rushing back to the brain. This was going around the schools at the time and still is. Children as young as 6 have died from this dangerous "game". It is a game that can be played in a group or even on your own.

The game is often played with someone standing up agaist a wall and the other person stands in front of them pushing up against that person's throat. The wall is used to stop them from falling backwards and to also stop them from falling backwards onto something and hitting their heads if they were to not have the wall behind them.

Children who go on to playing this solo (and many many do and many have died from the results). It is more dangerous to play this solo because no one is there to help or call an ambulance if a problem occurs.

The items that are most commonly used are 1/ rope 2/ cord 3/ scarf 4/ belt.

Most commonly tied to a bed post. Hang in a closet or tied to a door handle.

The choking game is believed to be mistaken for suicide in some cases.

 

[comingforyou]

I think that the ransom note was written FOR Patsy. The ransom note was designed to scare her so much that she would comply with the instructions.

John needed to get JonBenet OUT of the house.
John needed Patsy to comply with NOT calling the police.
The instructions were that JOHN was to go to the bank.
This gives him time to dispose of the body and then go to the bank and return with the ransom money.
When the phone call doesn't arrive then he would allow Patsy to call the cops by then it wouldn't matter so much because the body would be out of the house.
BUT....BUT...Patsy DID call the cops.
The ransom note DIDN'T frighten her.
Plan A is screwed.

It can explain why John wasn't talking or comforting Patsy. He was angry but couldn't show it.
He was frantically thinking over in his mind how it was all going to pan out now that the police were at the HOUSE.
I think he originally hid JonBenet in the suitcase. This was his way of getting her out the house. The ransom note did say have an adequate size attache.

Plan B never crossed John's mind. Patsy was never meant to call the police. He thought the words beheading etc would be enough. It wasn't.

The only problem is the scream heard by the neighbors in the basement. Was it Patsy's? Was in JonBenet's? or was it another child screaming? or was it John. Sometimes men's voices can sound like womens if they are terrified and scream.

 

[comingforyou]

I have always wondered why the foot prints stopped there. If someone was standing in that mouldy muck on the ground in the wine cellar wouldn't there be more than just one shoe print?? You would think it would have tranferred as they walked in other areas of the basement. What about on the suitcase? no transfer of mould there or the basement window sill or the carpet or the white blanket that was covering the body. Nope. Those shoe prints just disappeared.

Maybe someone just pushed a single shoe into the mould to make it look like someone had been standing there?(imo).

 

[Misskolie]

I have always wondered why the foot prints stopped there. If someone was standing in that mouldy muck on the ground in the wine cellar wouldn't there be more than just one shoe print?? You would think it would have tranferred as they walked in other areas of the basement. What about on the suitcase? no transfer of mould there or the basement window sill or the carpet or the white blanket that was covering the body. Nope. Those shoe prints just disappeared.

Maybe someone just pushed a single shoe into the mould to make it look like someone had been standing there?(imo).

I like this theory of someone pushing a shoe into the mould to make it look like someone was there.

 

[comingforyou]

"EXPRESS" is a brand of shoe.

 

[comingforyou]

Thanks Misskolie. It's like someone stood in one spot and didn't move...ever!

 

[Cottonstar]

I have always wondered why the foot prints stopped there. If someone was standing in that mouldy muck on the ground in the wine cellar wouldn't there be more than just one shoe print?? You would think it would have tranferred as they walked in other areas of the basement. What about on the suitcase? no transfer of mould there or the basement window sill or the carpet or the white blanket that was covering the body. Nope. Those shoe prints just disappeared.

Maybe someone just pushed a single shoe into the mould to make it look like someone had been standing there?(imo).

The mold was only thick in a few spots in the cellar.

 

[comingforyou]

If JonBenet had been shown the "choking game" by some of the boys in neighborhood then this could explain a few things.

The choking game has been around for quite a while. Its a trend among students and most popular with kids between the ages of 6-15. Many have died and the numbers keep rising each year.

It would have been devasting to the Ramseys to have this publically known if that is how she died.

Parents who find their children hanging can mistaken their death for suicide when it is a choking game they have learnt from their friends at school. It considered very cool. Kids do it in groups and film themselves. Its whoever can hang on the longest without passing out. Then there is the "high" that comes from the blood rushing back to the brain.

So who are we to say JonBenet who was known to be a tomboy at heart. Who was surrounded by boys from the neighborhood etc.

Patsy and John would have thought that Burke did something to her.

 

[comingforyou]

Once the mold is under the shoe it can be transferred onto something else regardless of how many spots there are of it in the cellar. If someone stood on the suitcase as Lou Smit suggests then we should see some transfer onto things they stood on. Just a thought.

 

[comingforyou]

In view of the fact that a lot of strangulation and hangings leave similar marks maybe just maybe it was a hanging that she died from. Lots of kids play the choking game that requires them (if playing solo) to hang themselves. In a group someone does the choking manually. Kids as young as 6 have died from this deadly "game". Kids think its very cool and trendy to do. Not saying that's how she died but quite frankly i don't believe it can be completely ruled out. It was certainly something that was going around the schools in the area. Students teaching each other how to do it. Parents completely unaware.

 

[Cottonstar]

Once the mold is under the shoe it can be transferred onto something else regardless of how many spots there are of it in the cellar. If someone stood on the suitcase as Lou Smit suggests then we should see some transfer onto things they stood on. Just a thought.

JAR and BR both owned Hi-Tec hiking boots/shoes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[kaykay543]

In view of the fact that a lot of strangulation and hangings leave similar marks maybe just maybe it was a hanging that she died from. Lots of kids play the choking game that requires them (if playing solo) to hang themselves. In a group someone does the choking manually. Kids as young as 6 have died from this deadly "game". Kids think its very cool and trendy to do. Not saying that's how she died but quite frankly i don't believe it can be completely ruled out. It was certainly something that was going around the schools in the area. Students teaching each other how to do it. Parents completely unaware.

Then how do you explain the bash to the head? That was first. I don't think this involved the choking game.

 

[Userid]

It didn't involve "the choking game." People get this confused often, I've noticed. The "choking game" is done to people who get enjoyment from being choked. Do you think a 6 year old girl would get enjoyment from being choked? Obviously not. There's a difference between "the choking game" and believing that she was simply choked by her assailant; why people choose to describe it as the former instead of the latter is beyond me, as the latter makes more sense in that the choker would gain the "satisfaction" so to speak (i.e. not the chokee).

 

[Tadpole12]

What about the bindings around
JBR's wrists?
Were the bindings part of a 'game'?
(Have they been repurposed for staging?)

 

[Userid]

I feel that the bindings were for staging purposes; and I feel that JR purposefully tried to untie them in FW's presence because he was worried his prints were already on them.

I always wanted FW to expand on exactly how JR did this: did he try to put JBR's arms down first, or did he go right for the bindings? Because to me, it would be all the more suspicious for him to not try to put her arms down first, as it would indicate that he already knew that they couldn't be moved out of rigor -- and the only way he would have known that, is if he knew she was dead long before he found her with FW.

 

[comingforyou]

I'm thinking that there were 2 people doing the strangulation. One pulling the cord at one angle/direction and another individual pulling the second loop in another another direction.

The stick was used so someone could hold onto it and pull on it with two hands and as a way of not having the rope slip out of their hands. Someone who perhaps didn't have the strengh to do it without holding onto a stick for leverage.