The “roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion”

[Userid]

I'm thinking that there were 2 people doing the strangulation. One pulling the cord at one angle/direction and another individual pulling the second loop in another another direction.

The stick was used so someone could hold onto it and pull on it with two hands and as a way of not having the rope slip out of their hands. Someone who perhaps didn't have the strengh to do it without holding onto a stick for leverage.

I don't mean to be rude here, but why would there need to be two people performing this? Do you think both JR and PR would be doing this, and if so, why? Perhaps one person fashioned the garrotte and the other person actually performed the act -- I can see that -- but I can't see them both performing the strangulation; there'd be no point.

 

[UKGuy]

I feel that the bindings were for staging purposes; and I feel that JR purposefully tried to untie them in FW's presence because he was worried his prints were already on them.

I always wanted FW to expand on exactly how JR did this: did he try to put JBR's arms down first, or did he go right for the bindings? Because to me, it would be all the more suspicious for him to not try to put her arms down first, as it would indicate that he already knew that they couldn't be moved out of rigor -- and the only way he would have known that, is if he knew she was dead long before he found her with FW.

Userid,
By definition JR would know independently of trying to move her arms that she was dead, thats why he called out as he opened the wine-cellar door, according to Fleet White.

Many think not only did JR know JonBenet was in the wine-cellar but that he put her there, either as part of the abduction staging or simply an easier location to find her rather than say the crawl space?

In the wine-cellar JonBenet has been staged to look as if she had just been abducted from her bed, yet we know she was sexually assaulted, wiped down, redressed in the size-12's along with Burke's longjohns.

Everything relating to JonBenet in the wine-cellar will have been staged its not there by accident and the R's version of events is suspect, corroborated by the pink barbie nightgown being left in the wine-cellar.

If you accept that Patsy tied the knotting in the ligature then she will have been aware JonBenet had been sexually assaulted, as must JR, before he placed her in the wine-cellar? JR's fibers were allegedly found on JonBenet's genital area.

JR going more or less directly to the wine-cellar is the big clue that he knew in advance that JonBenet was to be found there.

The $64,000 Q is who were the parents staging for?

 

[Userid]

Right, we already know all of this.

In my opinion, they were staging for themselves.

 

[UKGuy]

Right, we already know all of this.

In my opinion, they were staging for themselves.

Userid,
I agree, So what do you think JDI or PDI?


.

 

[Chelly]

Hey UKGuy, Glad you are still here to continue to report the facts of this case as we old-timers still remember it.

The parents of course were staging for the police to protect the remaining three R's in the home. Remind me please. Do you still maintain the theory that JR was the abuser?. I just can't bring myself to go back over years and years of posts. But do still lurk here.

 

[UKGuy]

Hey UKGuy, Glad you are still here to continue to report the facts of this case as we old-timers still remember it.

The parents of course were staging for the police to protect the remaining three R's in the home. Remind me please. Do you still maintain the theory that JR was the abuser?. I just can't bring myself to go back over years and years of posts. But do still lurk here.

Chelly,
Nice to hear from you, you should post more often.

Sure JDI is my default theory. Its not going to be PDI as she created more forensic evidence staging the wine-cellar.

Then I'm BDI in the sense Kolar's theory nearly gets there, but falls down in the common sense area.

Its the triad : genital injury, head injury, and asphyxiation that is difficult to resolve, i.e how does it fit in to a theory?

Why would JR need to asphyxiate or whack JonBenet on the head?

If its BDI more or less the same question, except would BR at his then age be all that interested in molesting JonBenet, that angle does not seem to fit?

.

 

[Chelly]

Chelly,
Nice to hear from you, you should post more often.

Sure JDI is my default theory. Its not going to be PDI as she created more forensic evidence staging the wine-cellar.

Then I'm BDI in the sense Kolar's theory nearly gets there, but falls down in the common sense area.

Its the triad : genital injury, head injury, and asphyxiation that is difficult to resolve, i.e how does it fit in to a theory?

Why would JR need to asphyxiate or whack JonBenet on the head?

If its BDI more or less the same question, except would BR at his then age be all that interested in molesting JonBenet, that angle does not seem to fit?

.

Oh UKGuy.....I still can't deflect from my theory that BR was responsible over a period of time for a lot of messing around with his little sister. I believe he was in JB's bedroom the night she died and was responsible for the head blow. I think he whacked her hard enough to make that crack in her skull, cause her to loose consciousness and appear near dead. JR and PR came to the scene, took over from there to protect their son. JR carried JB down the stairs, her hair picking up fragments from the Christmas greenery on the stair rails. Then staging the rest in the basement. Clearly the R's could not revive JB, thus the paint brush handle and garrote staging to blame an intruder/kidnapper. I think they wanted to get JB's body out of the house that night, but were fearful of being seen in their vehicle and ran out of time. Oh well, we've gone over and over this for years.

 

[UKGuy]

Oh UKGuy.....I still can't deflect from my theory that BR was responsible over a period of time for a lot of messing around with his little sister. I believe he was in JB's bedroom the night she died and was responsible for the head blow. I think he whacked her hard enough to make that crack in her skull, cause her to loose consciousness and appear near dead. JR and PR came to the scene, took over from there to protect their son. JR carried JB down the stairs, her hair picking up fragments from the Christmas greenery on the stair rails. Then staging the rest in the basement. Clearly the R's could not revive JB, thus the paint brush handle and garrote staging to blame an intruder/kidnapper. I think they wanted to get JB's body out of the house that night, but were fearful of being seen in their vehicle and ran out of time. Oh well, we've gone over and over this for years.

Chelly,
That's the great thing about this case, you could be right. There is a enough wiggle room to allow BDI.

One aspect is, if the authorities knew BR had issues and was a potential killer, why did they let him walk the streets, and return to school, etc?

.

 

[Chelly]

Chelly,
That's the great thing about this case, you could be right. There is a enough wiggle room to allow BDI.

One aspect is, if the authorities knew BR had issues and was a potential killer, why did they let him walk the streets, and return to school, etc?

.

UKGuy: This case is like cocaine to the addict. Here I am being seduced by it yet again. With all you know about the policing and politics of this case, along with JR's lawyering and infinity power, don't you think the "authorities" were in Ramsey's pockets in 1996? Do you think a powerful family could get away with this atrocity today?

 

[Cottonstar]

When did the horrific neck trauma occur in any of these scenarios?

 

[Userid]

Userid,
I agree, So what do you think JDI or PDI?


.

I believe it's PDI, with JR (and PR, to an extent; i.e. the letter) staging. That said, I don't think JDI is a bad theory. The only theory I vehemently oppose, is BDI -- but that's just me.

 

[Userid]

When did the horrific neck trauma occur in any of these scenarios?

Even in BDI, the neck injury would have had to occur just outside the wine cellar door. The urine stain on the carpet by the paint tray and on the long johns she was found in would be indicators. In P/JDI, it's the same thing, in that it was a part of the staging (i.e. after the initial attack). They thought their daughter had perished already. Although, I will admit, I've been mulling the theory that the strangulation occurred when PR freaked out in the initial attack. I am still a big believe in ST's theory that this was punishment for a bed-wetting incident and PR lost control. I think the strangulation could have occurred in the initial blow up -- with just the lace (no garrotte at this point; that was made strictly for staging purposes, not practical, as it didn't even function properly if memory serves) -- with the head blow quickly following. Once the head blow was made, it was believed she was dead; that's when the strangulation was performed a second time (in order to mask the head blow) and the garrote was fashioned.

 

[UKGuy]

When did the horrific neck trauma occur in any of these scenarios?

Cottonstar,
When the neck injury happened likely depends on your theory. It might have occured as a response to JonBenet making a noise, some kind of failed staging or while JonBenet was being asphyxiated with the ligature?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I believe it's PDI, with JR (and PR, to an extent; i.e. the letter) staging. That said, I don't think JDI is a bad theory. The only theory I vehemently oppose, is BDI -- but that's just me.

Userid,
The case could be PDI with JR assisting, the GJ thought they were both involved and party to alleged Child Abuse.

BDI is amixed bag it explains some things but glosses over other details., e.g. sexual assault. Neither parent needed to use violent force towards JonBenet, she was six years old and tiny. They could have simply picked her up to avoid an altercation.

Only BR might need to use violence , either originating in anger or jealousy, all the contusions and abrasions on JonBenet's body are still unexplained.

Its possible the case is BDI with BR going Postal on JonBenet with the rest being staged by the parents including a sexual assault?

.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,
When the neck injury happened likely depends on your theory. It might have occured as a response to JonBenet making a noise, some kind of failed staging or while JonBenet was being asphyxiated with the ligature?

.

For clarity, I’m not talking about the asphyxiation. I’m talking about the actual neck trauma. The abrasions, scrapes, scratches, and bruising. This is evidence that cannot be replicated or staged after the head blow and near death.

 

[UKGuy]

Even in BDI, the neck injury would have had to occur just outside the wine cellar door. The urine stain on the carpet by the paint tray and on the long johns she was found in would be indicators. In P/JDI, it's the same thing, in that it was a part of the staging (i.e. after the initial attack). They thought their daughter had perished already. Although, I will admit, I've been mulling the theory that the strangulation occurred when PR freaked out in the initial attack. I am still a big believe in ST's theory that this was punishment for a bed-wetting incident and PR lost control. I think the strangulation could have occurred in the initial blow up -- with just the lace (no garrotte at this point; that was made strictly for staging purposes, not practical, as it didn't even function properly if memory serves) -- with the head blow quickly following. Once the head blow was made, it was believed she was dead; that's when the strangulation was performed a second time (in order to mask the head blow) and the garrote was fashioned.

Userid,

Even in BDI, the neck injury would have had to occur just outside the wine cellar door.

JonBenet might have been in a coma prior to being moved down to the basement. Her neck injury might have happened upstairs, either as a result of being held in some kind of choke hold, or a failed attempt to kill her?

What we have in the basement is the R's take on a staged crime-scene. JonBenet is dressed in size-12's, a White Gap top, Burke's longjohns and no socks.

Despite this JonBenet has her hair dressed with hair-ties, so she was readied for bed, contradicting the R's version of events.

Jonbenet had a wardrobe of clothes upstairs, including many mightgowns and pajama sets,yet Patsy ignored all that allegedly dressing JonBenet in Burke's longjohns, who knows where the size-12's came from, Patsy says she gave them to JonBenet, which stands as a proxy for dressing JonBenet herself.

Why would Patsy leave the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar and ignore the rest of JonBenet's bedcloths in favor of Burke's longjohns?

She was attempting to stage herself out of some crime-scene upstairs, yet ends up leaving a plethora of forensic evidence in the wine-cellar?

.

 

[UKGuy]

For clarity, I’m not talking about the asphyxiation. I’m talking about the actual neck trauma. The abrasions, scrapes, scratches, and bruising. This is evidence that cannot be replicated or staged after the head blow and near death.

Cottonstar,
The neck trauma might be coincident with the asphyxiation or as a result of some prior assault/injury, take your pick.

.

 

[Chelly]

Userid,

JonBenet might have been in a coma prior to being moved down to the basement. Her neck injury might have happened upstairs, either as a result of being held in some kind of choke hold, or a failed attempt to kill her?

What we have in the basement is the R's take on a staged crime-scene. JonBenet is dressed in size-12's, a White Gap top, Burke's longjohns and no socks.

Despite this JonBenet has her hair dressed with hair-ties, so she was readied for bed, contradicting the R's version of events.

Jonbenet had a wardrobe of clothes upstairs, including many mightgowns and pajama sets,yet Patsy ignored all that allegedly dressing JonBenet in Burke's longjohns, who knows where the size-12's came from, Patsy says she gave them to JonBenet, which stands as a proxy for dressing JonBenet herself.

Why would Patsy leave the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar and ignore the rest of JonBenet's bedcloths in favor of Burke's longjohns?

She was attempting to stage herself out of some crime-scene upstairs, yet ends up leaving a plethora of forensic evidence in the wine-cellar?

.

UKGuy. Agree on the injury upstairs and finishing off and staging in the basement. Guessing that PR used what was available in the basement for redressing JB. Clothing from the clothes dryer or laundry basket. I've never fully understood the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine cellar. Anyone care to speculate?

 

[Cottonstar]

UKGuy. Agree on the injury upstairs and finishing off and staging in the basement. Guessing that PR used what was available in the basement for redressing JB. Clothing from the clothes dryer or laundry basket. I've never fully understood the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine cellar. Anyone care to speculate?

UKGuy. Agree on the injury upstairs and finishing off and staging in the basement. Guessing that PR used what was available in the basement for redressing JB. Clothing from the clothes dryer or laundry basket. I've never fully understood the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine cellar. Anyone care to speculate?

The neck trauma had to come before the head blow.

If you look at the items that had JonBenét’s blood on them and look at where those items were found, I believe you have strong evidence of a cover-up. There was blood found on her size 12 underwear, the silver sequin star shirt she was found in, on her barbie nightgown, and on the blanket she was wrapped in. Presumably, all of those items were upstairs in her room/or near on Christmas night. So, how and why did all of those items make it to the wine cellar along with JonBenét’s body? Only someone participating in a cover-up would want all of the bloody or incriminating evidence to be in one spot. Why? Because they are trying to divert all of our attention to the basement/wine cellar. Someone is trying to get everyone focused on that area of the house, while diverting everyone away from the original crime scene. We see the same type of staging outside of the wine cellar with the paInt tote, all nice and neat, broken brush, splinters and all – again driving investigators to that scene. Why is there a need on the part of perpetrator(s) to make sure “we” all think everything happened right there? An intruder would have no need to do this type of staging.

 

[Chelly]

The neck trauma had to come before the head blow.

If you look at the items that had JonBenét’s blood on them and look at where those items were found, I believe you have strong evidence of a cover-up. There was blood found on her size 12 underwear, the silver sequin star shirt she was found in, on her barbie nightgown, and on the blanket she was wrapped in. Presumably, all of those items were upstairs in her room/or near on Christmas night. So, how and why did all of those items make it to the wine cellar along with JonBenét’s body? Only someone participating in a cover-up would want all of the bloody or incriminating evidence to be in one spot. Why? Because they are trying to divert all of our attention to the basement/wine cellar. Someone is trying to get everyone focused on that area of the house, while diverting everyone away from the original crime scene. We see the same type of staging outside of the wine cellar with the paInt tote, all nice and neat, broken brush, splinters and all – again driving investigators to that scene. Why is there a need on the part of perpetrator(s) to make sure “we” all think everything happened right there? An intruder would have no need to do this type of staging.

Yes. Agree with you 100%. Unfortunately many of us have not given enough attention to the neck trauma. However, we know this is reported in evidence and is most likely the second of the incidents that occur upstairs. (I still can't give up on the theory that JB had become accustomed to being explored sexually by BR and one of the Stines.)