The case for murder, #2

[TorisMom003]

Thank you both Bourne and Carioca for posting those pics. The ones that I had been looking for are the ones that Carioca had posted. Bourne, I did see the ones you posted when I did a search on google for the table.

Now, about the table, why does it appear that the table is no where near the tree for support for AS to stand on it to cut down Rebecca? Was the table moved away from the tree after the fact? If so, why? Was the table placed there to make it appear that AS used the table to stand on when he didn't? If so, why?

Also, if AS was moving the table during the 911 call how is that possible? Unless he had Bluetooth then he would have difficulty holding a phone up to his ear while pulling a table along to put under Rebecca. And why did the table leg break off like it did? The picture of LE taking the table away from the home shows that the leg appears to have broken off in the direction of under the table. This would tell me that AS was pulling the table (dragging it) on the ground without lifting the edge of it up at all and the leg closest to him broke off going under the table. AS is not a small man, not a weakling so one would expect him to lift part of the table to move it.

MOO

 

[bourne]

Here you go, TorisMom. The link to the video is at following - table being removed at 2:13 mark:
http://www.cbs8.com/category/155799/video-landing-page?clipId=6051306&autostart=true

:waitasec: I just noticed that the reporter says at around 03:00 mark that Paul Pfingst claimed that "I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoken to him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type."

Aren't the first two statements outright *lies* by Pfingst, given that, IIRC, Ann Rule wrote in her book on the Zahau case that Jonah called Pfingst and asked him to represent Adam, and that Pfingst then called a direct inside number to the police precinct and interrupted an interrogation of Adam to directly speak with Adam?

If Jonah did not call Pfingst and ask him to show up at the Spreckels mansion that Wed after Rebecca's dead body was found, then WHO did? Dina???

 

[Carioca]

:waitasec: I just noticed that the reporter says at around 03:00 mark that Paul Pfingst claimed that "I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoken to him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type."

Aren't the first two statements outright *lies* by Pfingst, given that, IIRC, Ann Rule wrote in her book on the Zahau case that Jonah called Pfingst and asked him to represent Adam, and that Pfingst then called a direct inside number to the police precinct and interrupted an interrogation of Adam to directly speak with Adam?

If Jonah did not call Pfingst and ask him to show up at the Spreckels mansion that Wed after Rebecca's dead body was found, then WHO did? Dina???

Good point, bourne, although not sure Dina, being merely Jonah's ex-wife, would have had that kind of clout.

My guess is Jonah could have asked one of his many corporate lawyers to contact Pfingst. Pfingst is no dummy and I seriously doubt he would say something that could easily come back and bite him in the *advertiser censored**. Thus he was not Jonah's lawyer, he never spoke (directly) with Jonah, and he wasn't a suspect of any kind (which he would have already known via his SDSO insider contacts). JMO

 

[Nom de plume]

I often wonder how the whole family situation would have played out if Jonah had been the only one at home when Max had his awful accident.

Would Dina and Jonah have sued the scooter manufacturer together?

Would Dina and Jonah have come together to start foundations and non profits designed to further household safety? Non profits partnering with consumer product safety groups to advocate for scooter safety for young children? Nonprofits whose goal was to be a resource for parenting education? Nonprofits whose goal was to be a positive example and a resource for successful, child centered co-parenting in blended families? Would Dina and Jonah have modeled these behaviors publicly, making public service announcements side by side, etc? I wonder.....

Or......

Would Dina have accused Jonah of murder, and "torpedoing" Max over the railing?

Would Jonah have ended up nude and hanging from the balcony, with his hands and ankles bound?

Would Adam have said "I got a guy, hung himself" to the 911 operator?

Would police have allowed a dead Jonah to lay exposed for 13 hours?

Would the ME have taken 13 hours to show up at Spreckles?

Quite frankly, if Jonah had been the only one home when Max fell, I doubt that we would have heard a thing except a single media announcement of the tragic accidental stairwell fall death of the son of Jonah Shacknai.

Dina would never have accused Jonah of anything, IMO. It is only because Rebecca was the one at home that morning that we have the debacle that goes on today. Dina's income stream depends on her leaving Jonah alone. Rebecca is the only one Dina can attack-- oh, and she can publicly accuse, bully, and intimidate a traumatized young teen. (Nice public behavior from someone who likes to call them self a child psychologist, eh?)

If Rebecca had not been the one at home, she would still be alive, and both families would be resuming their lives and grieving for the little boy who died so tragically. No one would be criticizing what Jonah fed Max, or calling him a food nazi or a secret ninja jujitsu head lock master. IMO.

It is precisely this persistent set of behaviors from Dina and her enablers that is so profoundly disturbing, and points so strongly to the vicious murder of Rebecca, IMO. Gleeful, sadistic, "retaliation", IMO.

:clap: :clap: Excellent post K_Z!

 

[cynic]

I asked only for clarification on the posts from the more scientific members here . A "yay or a nay" a murder or a suicide. I don't like to second guess others, it's never fair to do so. Therefore I simply ask when I have a question.

What their layman's opinion is beyond their very large, sometimes graphic posts most of the wording is quite medically unknown terms to the layman.

That's ALL I asked for, nothing more.

What is "their" opinion. Not yours or mine, nor others who aren't scientists, just their's alone. Suicide or murder?

I know what my opinion is already and I know I'm a layman with no expertise in medical sciences. Also, I think I explained myself enough here today. That's it for now. The curiosity has taken up enough of my time ....

My two cents for what it’s worth is that I believe that the totality of the evidence points to the conclusion that Rebecca was murdered. I’ve included only very few of the reasons why I believe that to be true.
The SDCSD contends that this was an impulsive suicide precipitated by receiving bad news.
The crime scene is far too complex to support that contention.
No woman has ever been found hanging outdoors, nude, gagged, with hands and feet bound in a suicide scenario and I still believe that to be true. The most unexplainable element being the fact the feet were bound, it serves no purpose, whatsoever, in a suicide hanging. A close second is the public nudity.
The complexity of the knots and choosing to anchor from a bed rather than the railing also speaks strongly against the idea that this was a suicide. This fact becomes even more improbable given the complete absence of any research by RZ into knots through computer searches and the extreme improbably of anyone picking something that complex against the backdrop of much less complicated knots.
Rebecca’s center of gravity was below the top of the railing and considerable effort would have been required to squirm up and over the railing. Such effort would have left an area far larger than the three inch area that is seen to be wiped clean of dust.
There is unexplained trauma to top and lateral right side of RZ’s head.
Then we have unexplained fractures in the front of the neck BELOW the furrow line created by the noose.
There are many more reasons which have been outlined in many posts throughout this forum, and in this or any case I like to visualize each piece of evidence as a piece of a puzzle. In this instance the pieces readily form a portrait of murder.

 

[bourne]

My two cents for what it’s worth is that I believe that the totality of the evidence points to the conclusion that Rebecca was murdered. I’ve included only very few of the reasons why I believe that to be true.
The SDCSD contends that this was an impulsive suicide precipitated by receiving bad news.
The crime scene is far too complex to support that contention.
No woman has ever been found hanging outdoors, nude, gagged, with hands and feet bound in a suicide scenario and I still believe that to be true. The most unexplainable element being the fact the feet were bound, it serves no purpose, whatsoever, in a suicide hanging. A close second is the public nudity.
The complexity of the knots and choosing to anchor from a bed rather than the railing also speaks strongly against the idea that this was a suicide. This fact becomes even more improbable given the complete absence of any research by RZ into knots through computer searches and the extreme improbably of anyone picking something that complex against the backdrop of much less complicated knots.
Rebecca’s center of gravity was below the top of the railing and considerable effort would have been required to squirm up and over the railing. Such effort would have left an area far larger than the three inch area that is seen to be wiped clean of dust.
There is unexplained trauma to top and lateral right side of RZ’s head.
Then we have unexplained fractures in the front of the neck BELOW the furrow line created by the noose.
There are many more reasons which have been outlined in many posts throughout this forum, and in this or any case I like to visualize each piece of evidence as a piece of a puzzle. In this instance the pieces readily form a portrait of murder.

Bravo and bears repeating! I like the way you've briefly summarized the key scientific points. EXCELLENTE! :cheers:

 

[bourne]

Good point, bourne, although not sure Dina, being merely Jonah's ex-wife, would have had that kind of clout.

My guess is Jonah could have asked one of his many corporate lawyers to contact Pfingst. Pfingst is no dummy and I seriously doubt he would say something that could easily come back and bite him in the *advertiser censored**. Thus he was not Jonah's lawyer, he never spoke (directly) with Jonah, and he wasn't a suspect of any kind (which he would have already known via his SDSO insider contacts). JMO

Sounds like a sin of omission from Pfingst. A willful display of misleading statements to the media to pull the wool over our eyes *away* from the fact that Jonah did in fact precipitate Pfingst's arrival at the Spreckels mansion Wed. I also noticed that Pfingst was all smiles as he chummied up with LE. This leads me to believe that he didn't give a hoot about Rebecca's death. No one would be so gleefully happy (except for Rebecca's murderer(s)) at a crime scene of a violent, suspicious death, particularly since two days before little Max had also suffered a critical accident. I find Pfingst's happy demeanor at the crime scene deplorable and lacking in appropriate empathy. SMH

 

[*Lash*]

Sounds like a sin of omission from Pfingst. A willful display of misleading statements to the media to pull the wool over our eyes *away* from the fact that Jonah did in fact precipitate Pfingst's arrival at the Spreckels mansion Wed. I also noticed that Pfingst was all smiles as he chummied up with LE. This leads me to believe that he didn't give a hoot about Rebecca's death. No one would be so gleefully happy (except for Rebecca's murderer(s)) at a crime scene of a violent, suspicious death, particularly since two days before little Max had also suffered a critical accident. I find Pfingst's happy demeanor at the crime scene deplorable and lacking in appropriate empathy. SMH

Maybe Sheriff Gore made a phone call to Pfingst?

To add to Cynic's list of evidence. I also believe this was an unethical investigation. Criminal defense attorney Pfingst was pictured BEHIND the crime scene tape just hours after Becky's body was found. SDSO destroyed valuable evidence when they returned the door to Jonah. Two things that should never have happened in a criminal investigation.

 

[Serpico]

My two cents for what it’s worth is that I believe that the totality of the evidence points to the conclusion that Rebecca was murdered. I’ve included only very few of the reasons why I believe that to be true.
The SDCSD contends that this was an impulsive suicide precipitated by receiving bad news.
The crime scene is far too complex to support that contention.
No woman has ever been found hanging outdoors, nude, gagged, with hands and feet bound in a suicide scenario and I still believe that to be true. The most unexplainable element being the fact the feet were bound, it serves no purpose, whatsoever, in a suicide hanging. A close second is the public nudity.
The complexity of the knots and choosing to anchor from a bed rather than the railing also speaks strongly against the idea that this was a suicide. This fact becomes even more improbable given the complete absence of any research by RZ into knots through computer searches and the extreme improbably of anyone picking something that complex against the backdrop of much less complicated knots.
Rebecca’s center of gravity was below the top of the railing and considerable effort would have been required to squirm up and over the railing. Such effort would have left an area far larger than the three inch area that is seen to be wiped clean of dust.
There is unexplained trauma to top and lateral right side of RZ’s head.
Then we have unexplained fractures in the front of the neck BELOW the furrow line created by the noose.
There are many more reasons which have been outlined in many posts throughout this forum, and in this or any case I like to visualize each piece of evidence as a piece of a puzzle. In this instance the pieces readily form a portrait of murder.

I was doing some research on some aspects in this case and I found several references of ABRASIONS in forensic science as being very difficult to determine IF these abrasions occurred before or after death.Do you an opinion on RZ's many abrasions on her back?

Also, with regards to the 4 separate hemorrhages on RZ scalp......could they have been classified as BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA if brash Dr.Jonathan Lucas ruled this case a homicide?

 

[bourne]

Maybe Sheriff Gore made a phone call to Pfingst?

To add to Cynic's list of evidence. I also believe this was an unethical investigation. Criminal defense attorney Pfingst was pictured BEHIND the crime scene tape just hours after Becky's body was found. SDSO destroyed valuable evidence when they returned the door to Jonah. Two things that should never have happened in a criminal investigation.

Good point. If Gore did contact Pfingst and Jonah (or his attorneys or other POIs) had nothing to do with it and therefore, no one hired Pfingst to act as defense lawyer to Adam or other POIs, then Pfingst crossing the crime scene tape would not be improper or a conflict of interest.

Maybe that's why the CA AG didn't seem to think Pfingst crossing the crime scene tape was a big deal.

 

[time]

My two cents for what it’s worth is that I believe that the totality of the evidence points to the conclusion that Rebecca was murdered. I’ve included only very few of the reasons why I believe that to be true.
The SDCSD contends that this was an impulsive suicide precipitated by receiving bad news.
The crime scene is far too complex to support that contention.
No woman has ever been found hanging outdoors, nude, gagged, with hands and feet bound in a suicide scenario and I still believe that to be true. The most unexplainable element being the fact the feet were bound, it serves no purpose, whatsoever, in a suicide hanging. A close second is the public nudity.
The complexity of the knots and choosing to anchor from a bed rather than the railing also speaks strongly against the idea that this was a suicide. This fact becomes even more improbable given the complete absence of any research by RZ into knots through computer searches and the extreme improbably of anyone picking something that complex against the backdrop of much less complicated knots.
Rebecca’s center of gravity was below the top of the railing and considerable effort would have been required to squirm up and over the railing. Such effort would have left an area far larger than the three inch area that is seen to be wiped clean of dust.
There is unexplained trauma to top and lateral right side of RZ’s head.
Then we have unexplained fractures in the front of the neck BELOW the furrow line created by the noose.
There are many more reasons which have been outlined in many posts throughout this forum, and in this or any case I like to visualize each piece of evidence as a piece of a puzzle. In this instance the pieces readily form a portrait of murder.

Cynic... excellent post. I'll just add to the BBM although I said this before and others probably have also.

According to SDSO claims with TOD at 3 am (at the latest?), Rebecca had to become suicidal and plan everything after listening to the message from Jonah.

 

[Serpico]

My two cents for what it’s worth is that I believe that the totality of the evidence points to the conclusion that Rebecca was murdered. I’ve included only very few of the reasons why I believe that to be true.
The SDCSD contends that this was an impulsive suicide precipitated by receiving bad news.
The crime scene is far too complex to support that contention.
No woman has ever been found hanging outdoors, nude, gagged, with hands and feet bound in a suicide scenario and I still believe that to be true. The most unexplainable element being the fact the feet were bound, it serves no purpose, whatsoever, in a suicide hanging. A close second is the public nudity.
The complexity of the knots and choosing to anchor from a bed rather than the railing also speaks strongly against the idea that this was a suicide. This fact becomes even more improbable given the complete absence of any research by RZ into knots through computer searches and the extreme improbably of anyone picking something that complex against the backdrop of much less complicated knots.
Rebecca’s center of gravity was below the top of the railing and considerable effort would have been required to squirm up and over the railing. Such effort would have left an area far larger than the three inch area that is seen to be wiped clean of dust.
There is unexplained trauma to top and lateral right side of RZ’s head.
Then we have unexplained fractures in the front of the neck BELOW the furrow line created by the noose.
There are many more reasons which have been outlined in many posts throughout this forum, and in this or any case I like to visualize each piece of evidence as a piece of a puzzle. In this instance the pieces readily form a portrait of murder.

==================================
Cynic - I'd like to add this to your summation. RZ Toxicology Test Results were completed not even 2 weeks after ME Lucas began his Autopsy.
7/26/11 = Toxicology Results signed by:
Iain M. McIntyre -Forensic Toxicology Lab Manager
Catherine E. Hamm- Toxicologist
==================================
Sheriff Gore made an appearance on CNN with Erin Burnett - 11/18/11 Transcript:
------------------------------
Gore: This is definitely an unusual suicide. In fact, we approached it from the beginning, looking at a possible homicide. It was ONLY until we got the results of ALL the forensic evidence, the DNA , the fingerprints. And I still wasn't convinced until we got the LAST PIECE OF FORENSIC INFORMATION, which was the toxicology report. She had not been drugged.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I vividly remember not reading any other forensic information until mid August and right before the Sept. 2,2011 sham PC. Also, when you consider that former Attorney Anne Bremner shared the files Gore sent her with Author Ann Rule that on page 269 of her book she says.....Many forensic lab tests were not completed , or even begun. This makes it easy for me to say that Sheriff Gore is a blatant liar. His only statement above that may have a shed of truth was the TIME he began his Thompson/Gore "suicide package" which was 7/26/11 ...just 2 weeks after RZ was discovered nude on the courtyard grass by CPD and paramedics.

I hope the deposition of Gore reveals the date of the initial discussion to create a "rope video" to show how easy it was for RZ to tie the knots,etc. I'd like to compare that DATE with the actual SDSO Crime Lab results that were completed that involved blood,DNA, fingerprints,etc.

 

[bourne]

==================================
Cynic - I'd like to add this to your summation. RZ Toxicology Test Results were completed not even 2 weeks after ME Lucas began his Autopsy.
7/26/11 = Toxicology Results signed by:
Iain M. McIntyre -Forensic Toxicology Lab Manager
Catherine E. Hamm- Toxicologist
==================================
Sheriff Gore made an appearance on CNN with Erin Burnett - 11/18/11 Transcript:
------------------------------
Gore: This is definitely an unusual suicide. In fact, we approached it from the beginning, looking at a possible homicide. It was ONLY until we got the results of ALL the forensic evidence, the DNA , the fingerprints. And I still wasn't convinced until we got the LAST PIECE OF FORENSIC INFORMATION, which was the toxicology report. She had not been drugged.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I vividly remember not reading any other forensic information until mid August and right before the Sept. 2,2011 sham PC. Also, when you consider that former Attorney Anne Bremner shared the files Gore sent her with Author Ann Rule that on page 269 of her book she says.....Many forensic lab tests were not completed , or even begun. This makes it easy for me to say that Sheriff Gore is a blatant liar. His only statement above that may have a shed of truth was the TIME he began his Thompson/Gore "suicide package" which was 7/26/11 ...just 2 weeks after RZ was discovered nude on the courtyard grass by CPD and paramedics.

I hope the deposition of Gore reveals the date of the initial discussion to create a "rope video" to show how easy it was for RZ to tie the knots,etc. I'd like to compare that DATE with the actual SDSO Crime Lab results that were completed that involved blood,DNA, fingerprints,etc.

I distinctly remember also that the autopsy report by ME Lucas was signed one or two days after Rebecca was murdered in July 2011 and that the date was then changed to September 2011 right before the Sheriff Gore presser.

Does anyone have a copy of the original AR for Rebecca?

 

[*Lash*]

I guess this would be considered an original?

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/64114521

 

[TorisMom003]

Can someone explain to me how Rebecca's date and time of death can be 7/13/11 at 0648 AND her last be seen alive on 7/13/11 at 2150? Do they not double check these things? Also noticed that Rebecca's parents last name is misspelled.

 

[kittychi]

I guess this would be considered an original?

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/64114521

Curious why the Autopsy report was revised on 9-2-11. Did they scramble to change something at the last minute?

I would like to know if all revisions of an important document like that are supposed to be retained.

 

[TorisMom003]

Curious why the Autopsy report was revised on 9-2-11. Did they scramble to change something at the last minute?

I would like to know if all revisions of an important document like that are supposed to be retained.

I feel sure that the following was just one of the changes made:

"A recreation demonstrated that the wrist bindings could have been assembled by the decedent in front of her body, one of her hands removed, and then placed back in the bindings with her hands behind her back."

 

[bourne]

I guess this would be considered an original?

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/64114521

Thanks Lash!

On page 15 of Rebecca's autopsy report, the bottom said:
"JRL:CN:lcb
D: 7/14/11 T: 7/15/11
Rev. 9/2/11 clb"

I assume this means the autopsy report was dictated 7/14/11 (a day after Rebecca's body was found on 7/13/11) and transcribed 7/15/11. And then it was revised (albeit we have no idea what exactly was "revised") on 9/2/11, correct?

So for all intents of purposes, ME Lucas completed Rebecca's autopsy within ONE DAY that Rebecca's body had been found reportedly hanging off Spreckels mansion courtyard balcony and ruled that her death was a "suicide" within ONE DAY.

On page 1 of Rebecca's autopsy report, it plainly states:
""MANNER OF DEATH: SUICIDE"

Although I read the autopsies are generally completed within a day or two, one would hope that in Rebecca's case wherein a "violent, suspicious death" was indicated, that the ME would WAIT until all available evidence and the completion of a THOROUGH investigation such as obtaining the so-called suicide trigger voicemail from Jonah, analyses of all blood and prints and women's underwear, polygraphs of all POIs, interviews and prints of all POIs, etc. BEFORE ME Lucas concluded the autopsy report and ruled that her death was a "suicide".

So GMAB, ME Lucas and SDLE. YOU CONCLUDED that Rebecca's death was a suicide several hours (not even a full day!) after her body was found -- on 7/14/11 -- without even a proper or thorough investigation! You expect us to believe that a complete, scientific investigation was done in LESS THAN A DAY? Remember, ME Lucas and ME assistant didn't even bother to show up to the crime scene until 13 plus hours after her body was found, and none of you even found the decency or professionalism to shield her nude body with a tent in those 13 plus hours! SHAME ON YOU. You're a disgrace to all ME's.

I hope the Zahaus' WDS brings all the misconduct out and that all those in charge of Rebecca's investigation are fired and at the very least demoted and re-trained. SMH

 

[*Lash*]

Bourne, I feel ya!

:goodpost:

SDSO has and still is...

:back:

I hope one day Rebecca gets justice and after we can all share a toast to a wrong being made right!

:toastred:

 

[Bonepile]

Can someone explain to me how Rebecca's date and time of death can be 7/13/11 at 0648 AND her last be seen alive on 7/13/11 at 2150? Do they not double check these things?

Maybe they left her lying nude in the back yard for 13+ hours because they thought she was NOT dead yet? Did they think she was sleeping? Or were they waiting for the date and time to be just right?

Amazing what trained professional investigators can get away with. I would say murder.