The case for murder, #2

[kittychi]

Sheriff Gore should be on trial. :maddening:

 

[coastal]

I remember early on how it was said there were no signs of a sexual assault, but now we have pinched nipples and a steak knife inserted. It was said there was no prints on the knife, but there's vaginal material? seriously? funny thing, I thought that might have been mentioned. no dna on the knife but Rebecca's. but it sure as hell didn't say no dna except that of Rebecca's vagina. and if there are no prints on the knife, how did it get into Rebecca's privates? via dryer sheet?

You are right, sure as hell, nobody mentioned vaginal DNA.Period. (Pun intended, and not.) And I agree, your idea about the dryer sheet explains that nicely (scratch that) neatly.

I can't believe the SDSO would do that. I mean, wtf??!!?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I wonder if the reason this evidence was just discovered has to do with the pace of discovery in the case? Why is this just being discovered 6 years later??

I think what Greer is referring to may be *microscopic* evidence of vaginal epithelium, or cervical or uterine menstrual tissue. Vaginal epithelium is different from skin cells. Here's some brief info from non-scholarly sites (lol!):



http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-vaginal-epithelium.htm



https://www.plim.fr/en/content/19-about-menstrual-blood

Also, remember that the narrative and documentation in RZ's autopsy regarding genital/ sexual assault exam was severely lacking in thoroughness, given the circumstances of her death and investigation at the time, IMO. There was not even a mention of the condition of her cervix-- whether it was parous or non parous (indicating childbirth), or traumatic/ atraumatic. There was an "assumption" that she had intra cycle spotting from her IUD, or that she was on her menses, which caused the droplets of blood in the shower, etc. There was not enough "exam" done and documented in her autopsy, IMO, to rule that in, or rule out anything else that could have caused the vaginal bleeding.

Anyway, the new knife evidence is interesting, and relevant.

Is this the same knife that was presumed to have cut the rope? The news article says "steak knife". Do we know where this was found?

A lot of women don't have bleeding or periods of any kind once they have an IUD inserted. So it's interesting they marked the blood in the shower up to "menstrual bleeding", and apparently wrote off any blood in the vagina for the same reason - but it's highly probably she didn't menstruate. This makes the likelihood of sexual assault a lot higher, when you consider she shouldn't have had any blood there at all.

 

[*Lash*]

Recall there were two knives found at the crime scene, which never made sense in light of declaring it a suicide. You can see a steak knife in the photo below and nearby a larger chef's knife. In between them is a used sheet of fabric softener.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8671.jpg

I want to go back and look at the types of gloves found at the crime scene. There were a few different ones.

According to the list on the SW 41277, there were 3 knives :

1. knife
26. butcher knife
27. steak knife

Gloves were listed as:

2. pair of black gloves
21. black latex glove

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

 

[*Lash*]

Mixed DNA on a knife and black gloves.

"We have mixed DNA in this case all over, in things like the knife, the bed frame, black gloves," said Bremner on the syndicated television talk show. "Mixed DNA unexplained as to who these other donors are."

"It's a case that just cries out for answers and investigation. We have mixed DNA in her fingernails," the Seattle-based attorney said.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

 

[*Lash*]

Crime Lab Director Michael Grubb did not dispute the presence of unidentifiable, mixed DNA.

Sheriff's Crime Lab Director Michael Grubb did not dispute the presence of unidentifiable, mixed DNA at the Coronado scene."The majority of the DNA under Rebecca Zahau's fingernails was her own," said Grubb.

"Various fingernails were tested as separate samples and one of them showed a DNA mixture but the level of DNA was so low that it was an un-interpretable mixture."

In addition to the fingernail sample, unidentified DNA also was recovered from the rope used in Zahau's alleged hanging; a large knife used to the cut the rope; the bed frame to which the rope was tied; a door knob on the balcony door; and a pair of black gloves found on a table in the mansion, Grubb said.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

 

[*Lash*]

I remember early on how it was said there were no signs of a sexual assault, but now we have pinched nipples and a steak knife inserted. It was said there was no prints on the knife, but there's vaginal material? seriously? funny thing, I thought that might have been mentioned. no dna on the knife but Rebecca's. but it sure as hell didn't say no dna except that of Rebecca's vagina. and if there are no prints on the knife, how did it get into Rebecca's privates? via dryer sheet?

Grubb said it himself, "no sex assault" when answering why the underwear was NOT tested.

The underwear was collected but was not examined because of Jonah Shacknai's statement and the fact that we had better evidence as to whether Rebecca Zahau was sexually assaulted or not; and that was her body – and swabs recovered from her body – which showed no sexual assault," responded Grubb.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

 

[*Lash*]

It never has made any sense to with the suicide theory why menstrual blood spots would be found in so many different areas. In my opinion, it only made sense if a crime/assault had occurred.

Blood testing - some tested, some NOT tested:

BBM-

Similar questions were raised about a spot of blood found in a bathroom shower near the death-scene bedroom. The blood was never tested for DNA because detectives believed it was menstrual blood from Zahau.

"There was blood found on Rebecca's body, which was determined to be menstrual blood. There was also blood spotting on the floor, on the carpet, and a small spot in the shower," Gore explained.

The blood spots on the carpet and on Zahau's body did undergo DNA testing and were identified as her own menstrual blood; therefore, said Gore, the blood spot in the shower also was determined to be her own blood, "through logical investigative work."

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

 

[Betty P]

It never has made any sense to with the suicide theory why menstrual blood spots would be found in so many different areas. In my opinion, it only made sense if a crime/assault had occurred.

Blood testing - some tested, some NOT tested:

BBM-



http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

So did they "forget" to test for menstrual blood on the handle of the steak knife? Or did they find it and cover it up? Their testing process was very selective, conforming to their confirmation bias - that RZ died due to suicide because Adam told them so.

I still get creeped out by an early poster here who claimed that RZ was running around naked in the home leaving her menstrual blood everywhere because she was an unclean and crazy person. Most likely, she was being chased around the home in the nude while being beaten, sexually assaulted and eventually killed.

ETA: I'm also recalling the frustration many of us felt when SDSO/ME insisted that the blood found on her legs and feet (?) was there simply as a result of normal menstruation or bleeding from her IUD. No, it was the result of a sexual assault that occurred just prior to her hanging.

 

[*Lash*]

So did they "forget" to test for menstrual blood on the handle of the steak knife? Or did they find it and cover it up? Their testing process was very selective, conforming to their confirmation bias - that RZ died due to suicide because Adam told them so.

I still get creeped out by an early poster here who claimed that RZ was running around naked in the home leaving her menstrual blood everywhere because she was an unclean and crazy person. Most likely, she was being chased around the home in the nude while being beaten, sexually assaulted and eventually killed.

ETA: I'm also recalling the frustration many of us felt when SDSO/ME insisted that the blood found on her legs and feet (?) was there simply as a result of normal menstruation or bleeding from her IUD. No, it was the result of a sexual assault that occurred just prior to her hanging.

Exactly, confirmation bias!

I remember the post. It made absolutely no sense in the suicide theory. Where was Gore's "logical investigative work" there? SMH!

Jonah's word(s) concerning the underwear was NOT "logical investigative work". It was hearsay. An assumption made by the homeowner where a bound female body was found. In a thorough investigation you test the underwear! You don't take the word of the homeowner.

 

[Morag]

And why would she have mixed DNA under her fingernails if she had showered just before she was murdered?

 

[justice be served]

So did they "forget" to test for menstrual blood on the handle of the steak knife? Or did they find it and cover it up? Their testing process was very selective, conforming to their confirmation bias - that RZ died due to suicide because Adam told them so.

I still get creeped out by an early poster here who claimed that RZ was running around naked in the home leaving her menstrual blood everywhere because she was an unclean and crazy person. Most likely, she was being chased around the home in the nude while being beaten, sexually assaulted and eventually killed.

ETA: I'm also recalling the frustration many of us felt when SDSO/ME insisted that the blood found on her legs and feet (?) was there simply as a result of normal menstruation or bleeding from her IUD. No, it was the result of a sexual assault that occurred just prior to her hanging.

Your last sentence makes me so sad to envision what may very well have occurred.

 

[Waitaminute]

and fluid... wasn't there fluid found on the strangulation shirt that wasn't tested?

 

[Imp]

Worst.Investigation.Ever.

And was it deliberately botched, or was SDSO et al just really that incompetent?

The "death investigation" has always been my hot button in this case.

I'm fuming all over again.

 

[Lilibet]

Worst.Investigation.Ever.

And was it deliberately botched, or was SDSO et al just really that incompetent?

The "death investigation" has always been my hot button in this case.

I'm fuming all over again.

Yes! Worst. Investigation. Ever...Followed closely by the SDSO investigation into the McStay family disappearance (No lumlnol? Really?).

Normally I give LE the benefit of the doubt and assume they are doing a thorough investigation. And I normally don’t say that there is “no way” a person would do something (anything is possible and frequently is). But from the moment I heard about Rebecca’s “suicide” (long before I joined WS) I said “No way would a woman commit suicide by hanging herself nude from an outside balcony. Nope. Not going to happen. Especially a woman from an Asian culture IMO.”

I remember watching the SDSO video demonstrating how Rebecca could have tied the knots and thinking “Why is SDSO trying sooooo hard to prove this was suicide?” Their conclusion stretched credulity. Given the extremely unusual and unlikely method of suicide, a thorough murder investigation should have been automatically launched. But from the beginning SDSO exhibited disdainful disrespect for Rebecca as a human being by leaving her body exposed to view. In retrospect it was clear that her death meant little to LE, and the rest is history...that I hope will be undone.

Fuming right along with you. If it turns out that SDSO was right, I will apologize.

 

[Betty P]

Isn't it standard, or at least professional procedure to re investigate a suspicious death if it's revealed that mistakes were made, evidence excluded or ignored? It taints everything that's been done. There's no choice but for a team of investigators to go back to square one and look at everything all over again, ask more questions, do more testing. At minimum, they should ask Jonah, Adam and the others to submit DNA samples to compare with the "unknown" DNA found at the crime scene.

It boggles the mind that SDSO expected the public to go along with their excuses and explanations.

 

[coastal]

Yes! Worst. Investigation. Ever...Followed closely by the SDSO investigation into the McStay family disappearance (No lumlnol? Really?).

Normally I give LE the benefit of the doubt and assume they are doing a thorough investigation. And I normally don’t say that there is “no way” a person would do something (anything is possible and frequently is). But from the moment I heard about Rebecca’s “suicide” (long before I joined WS) I said “No way would a woman commit suicide by hanging herself nude from an outside balcony. Nope. Not going to happen. Especially a woman from an Asian culture IMO.”

I remember watching the SDSO video demonstrating how Rebecca could have tied the knots and thinking “Why is SDSO trying sooooo hard to prove this was suicide?” Their conclusion stretched credulity. Given the extremely unusual and unlikely method of suicide, a thorough murder investigation should have been automatically launched. But from the beginning SDSO exhibited disdainful disrespect for Rebecca as a human being by leaving her body exposed to view. In retrospect it was clear that her death meant little to LE, and the rest is history...that I hope will be undone.

Fuming right along with you. If it turns out that SDSO was right, I will apologize.

My bold. I'd like to add that SDSO's "disdainful disrespect" of Rebecca extends to us, the public, who necessarily trust LE to perform their duties correctly, with integrity and compassion, and all qualities which are glaringly absent from this case, even now.

I am ashamed to call myself a San Diegan. We should be better than that.

 

[Imp]

Isn't it standard, or at least professional procedure to re investigate a suspicious death if it's revealed that mistakes were made, evidence excluded or ignored? It taints everything that's been done. There's no choice but for a team of investigators to go back to square one and look at everything all over again, ask more questions, do more testing. At minimum, they should ask Jonah, Adam and the others to submit DNA samples to compare with the "unknown" DNA found at the crime scene.

It boggles the mind that SDSO expected the public to go along with their excuses and explanations.

My opinion is that steps were taken shortly after the "death investigation" to insure there would be nothing to see if at some point in the future someone wanted to go back to square one. If I recall correctly, Jonah very quickly had the property renovated and put up for sale, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts the SDSO "can't find" any collected but untested evidence. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn they "can't find" any of the evidence from the faux investigation. "Oopsie! Guess we misplaced it!"

 

[Betty P]

My opinion is that steps were taken shortly after the "death investigation" to insure there would be nothing to see if at some point in the future someone wanted to go back to square one. If I recall correctly, Jonah very quickly had the property renovated and put up for sale, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts the SDSO "can't find" any collected but untested evidence. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn they "can't find" any of the evidence from the faux investigation. "Oopsie! Guess we misplaced it!"

I think we checked news,etc. here a while back to see if the Zahau's attorney had access to all the evidence. Seems like they do, at least what was gathered from SDSO. But, yes, SDSO was very selective in what they picked up. A lot was probably destroyed by Jonah. The "sale" of the property and subsequent renovations were done so quickly after the murder, with the approval of SDSO. Jonah was hiding something. More blood evidence? DNA? We'll never know.

But looking at the photos in the listing, it appears they got rid of all the furnishings in the home, including the furniture in the death room and master bedroom. The staircase in the main hallway remained the same, but a new chandelier, wall and window coverings, flooring, etc. was installed.

 

[kittychi]

I think we checked news,etc. here a while back to see if the Zahau's attorney had access to all the evidence. Seems like they do, at least what was gathered from SDSO. But, yes, SDSO was very selective in what they picked up. A lot was probably destroyed by Jonah. The "sale" of the property and subsequent renovations were done so quickly after the murder, with the approval of SDSO. Jonah was hiding something. More blood evidence? DNA? We'll never know.

But looking at the photos in the listing, it appears they got rid of all the furnishings in the home, including the furniture in the death room and master bedroom. The staircase in the main hallway remained the same, but a new chandelier, wall and window coverings, flooring, etc. was installed.

IMHO Jonah has always been the "elephant in the room" and has known what happened from the beginning. Shameful that he has put the family through this ridiculous hoop-jumping for years. Unfortunately he will escape being charged criminally, but I think he should be. :copcar: :maddening: :jail: