=============================================== Gore said SCIENCE solved this case over 2 years ago.....selective SCIENCE we're finding out. Please enlighten me... how does blood on the shower tub floor determined to be menstrual by good investigative work vs a BLOOD TEST? Also, there's a reason professional LE departments use a assault/rape kit vs just taking swabs. Geez.... a junior Ranger would have enough sense to make sure the rape kit test was used given the signs - a young attractive woman found NUDE -BOUND -GAGGED with
numerous abrasions on her back,cut fingers/hand and blood on her body.
Zahau lawyers will have a FIELD DAY with this pompous ex FBI yahoo on the stand that even his ex FBI wife couldn't help him. I have come to believe we are a safer nation knowing that William and Natalie Gore are no longer employed by the FBI.
Here are a few pics, Lash:Carioca, do you have a decent picture of any part of the whicker chair? TIA
Here are a few pics, Lash:
1) from the crime scene
2) similar chair in hanging room from Architectural series pre-Shacknai
3) similar chairs in front middle bedroom w/ bed from ditto source
4) a chair I found on a vintage furniture site that looks like the same design
I've had chairs like this and the paint ended up flaking off like you mentioned. Little bits that would get stuck on pants, bare legs and arms..
In image 4 I've circled 2 areas that "could" have caused the deep indentation and also the parallel markings on RZ's legs. I question once again how long an indentation created prior to death would remain so vividly visible post mortem.
Here are a few pics, Lash:
1) from the crime scene
2) similar chair in hanging room from Architectural series pre-Shacknai
3) similar chairs in front middle bedroom w/ bed from ditto source
4) a chair I found on a vintage furniture site that looks like the same design
I've had chairs like this and the paint ended up flaking off like you mentioned. Little bits that would get stuck on pants, bare legs and arms..
In image 4 I've circled 2 areas that "could" have caused the deep indentation and also the parallel markings on RZ's legs. I question once again how long an indentation created prior to death would remain so vividly visible post mortem.
Here are a few pics, Lash:
1) from the crime scene
2) similar chair in hanging room from Architectural series pre-Shacknai
3) similar chairs in front middle bedroom w/ bed from ditto source
4) a chair I found on a vintage furniture site that looks like the same design
I've had chairs like this and the paint ended up flaking off like you mentioned. Little bits that would get stuck on pants, bare legs and arms..
In image 4 I've circled 2 areas that "could" have caused the deep indentation and also the parallel markings on RZ's legs. I question once again how long an indentation created prior to death would remain so vividly visible post mortem.
In image 4 I've circled 2 areas that "could" have caused the deep indentation and also the parallel markings on RZ's legs. I question once again how long an indentation created prior to death would remain so vividly visible post mortem.
Thank you Carioca and *Lash* for the photos. I'll take a closer look in the morning. For now, why would the impressions have necessarily been made prior to death? What if she died on her back or her side while tied to the chair?
BBM Thanks, STS-135. Apologies. I need to make a correction on space between the ankles (I incorrectly stated 1/2 inch). According to RZ AR page 11, "the ankles can be separated a maximum of 2 inches at the narrowest point."
Nonetheless, even with a maximum of 2 inch separation, it does not explain the indentations that appear well beyond that scope.
Thank you Carioca and *Lash* for the photos. I'll take a closer look in the morning. For now, why would the impressions have necessarily been made prior to death? What if she died on her back or her side while tied to the chair?
<snipped>
ME Lucas stated she was alive when she was hanged, FWTW.
I wonder if Natalie Gore asked her husband," honey, did you ever TEST the orange/red towing rope to see if there was any evidence of "water" evidence on where it may have been used / docked before." Hubby Bill may have responded," no, I'm sure we took swabs of the rope and our great investigative team would've mentioned if something was discovered."
There was no definitive explanation where this orange/red towing rope came from and there wasn't a new wrapper that contained this rope mentioned from what I've read so if am I correct.....this was a USED towing rope? Maybe the water components in Coronado are different than Memphis or AZ......
This is an interesting video - rope looks very similar to the one used to bind Rebecca.
Insanely good dock roping skills
"She can get the boat tied to the dock with some serious knot mastery without even bending down." (I can't figure out how to insert the video rather than link it.. :blushing
http://youtu.be/qbsdy0SK9JU
That does look like the rope.....least we know where it belongs and the various
uses. How it wound up at 1043 Ocean Blvd is just one of the many unsolved aspects in this tragic death case.
CARIOCA & SERPICO....I feel as if I am at a tennis match with 2 great players who continue to make incredible shots, right to the edge of the court, but always staying in play!! You have enabled us to see beyond the myopic lens of SDSO's investigation. So many things about this investigation scream, "Well that's good enough, let's call it a wrap!" and criticize anyone who was not willing to accept, "...that's good enough!"
There are many people who always want to "shut-down investigations"...and there are many, many reasons. You name it: political pressure, financial, going with the flow, don't make waves, it is not in the best interest of the department, it makes us look incompetent, the victims are dead--nothing we do will bring them back, career/resume enhancement, cover the mistakes of a detective or department, etc. Sometimes an investigation is like a road trip...once you make the wrong turn...it will take you three times as long to get back on the right path. You can have all the best intentions in the world, great car, lots of fuel, great driver etc....but ONCE THE NAVIGATOR HAS GIVEN YOU A WRONG DIRECTION ...
I was extremely surprised at the lapse in acquiring "cell phone information." And, the reason being, the case that won Tsuida, homicide detective of the year.....there were more than 70 SEARCH WARRANTS issued for cell/phone records
But, then again..."outside" (more thorough, funded?) agencies were brought in for assistance.
San Diego Homicide Detective Angela TsuidaNamed California Homicide Investigators Associations 2010 CHIA Investigator of the YearWritten by Kay Ochi
http://www.scribd.com/doc/37126792/Borderline-July-2010
(just wanted to make sure I got my source in place:blushing
------------------------------------------------------------------I've re-read brash ME Lucas AR about a half dozen times this month for various reasons and yesterday trying to understand WHAT ELSE Lucas was either downplaying in his Report or just glossed over I stumbled upon an educational website = ORACLE EDUCATION - THINK QUEST. I'll just post and see what others have to say when compared to Lucas AR and Dr.Cyril Wecht's comments.
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Hanged Victims
A body discovered hanging or suspended in some way, usually contains telltale signs of a death due to lack of oxygen. There includes such signs as blue skin colour, burst blood vessels in the eyes and inflated lungs.Forensic pathologists examine the rope marks on the
neck to determine if they contain evidently inflamed edges, a sign that the victim was ALIVE before being hanged. However, when no inflammation marks are present, it suggests the victim was DEAD before being hanged and the HANGING was some form of a COVER UP . The rope marks on the victim's neck are examined to check that they match the rope found at the scene of the crime.
The slightest difference of the rope impression from the actual rope itself, would undoubtedly imply that the rope was not the murder tool and where the victim did die of a lack of oxygen and does have evident bruises on the neck, the murder weapon is sought
using the markings as a guide. As a GENERAL RULE, all rope markings on the neck should be in the shape of an UPSIDE DOWN V, where the KNOT would cause a bruise on the back
of the neck, creating the point of the V.
Other facts pointing the murder may also be revealed when an examination of the neck is carried out. Strangulation usually BREAKS THE HYOID BONE located in the neck , but the bone is VERY RARELY BROKEN during hanging. The breakage of the hyoid would suggest manual strangulation, whereby the victim was strangled using the hands, or via means of another implement (e.g. cord, belt, etc.). When strangulation is the case, death may be caused due to a lack of air, but more likely, as a result of the deliberate compression of
the neck, causing a vagal inhabitation, the situation where the stimulation of the of the neck's VAGUS NERVE causes the heart to stop. In cases where the hyoid bone is not broken, but bruising is evident around the nose and mouth , a death caused by smothering is indicated, thereby dying due to a lack of oxygen.
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Rebecca Zahau's hyoid bone was broken (fractured) according to ME Lucas AR.
I've re-read brash ME Lucas AR about a half dozen times this month for various reasons and yesterday trying to understand WHAT ELSE Lucas was either downplaying in his Report or just glossed over I stumbled upon an educational website = ORACLE EDUCATION - THINK QUEST. I'll just post and see what others have to say when compared to Lucas AR and Dr.Cyril Wecht's comments.
-----------------------------------
Hanged Victims
A body discovered hanging or suspended in some way, usually contains telltale signs of a death due to lack of oxygen. There includes such signs as blue skin colour, burst blood vessels in the eyes and inflated lungs.Forensic pathologists examine the rope marks on the
neck to determine if they contain evidently inflamed edges, a sign that the victim was ALIVE before being hanged. However, when no inflammation marks are present, it suggests the victim was DEAD before being hanged and the HANGING was some form of a COVER UP . The rope marks on the victim's neck are examined to check that they match the rope found at the scene of the crime.
The slightest difference of the rope impression from the actual rope itself, would undoubtedly imply that the rope was not the murder tool and where the victim did die of a lack of oxygen and does have evident bruises on the neck, the murder weapon is sought
using the markings as a guide. As a GENERAL RULE, all rope markings on the neck should be in the shape of an UPSIDE DOWN V, where the KNOT would cause a bruise on the back
of the neck, creating the point of the V.
Other facts pointing the murder may also be revealed when an examination of the neck is carried out. Strangulation usually BREAKS THE HYOID BONE located in the neck , but the bone is VERY RARELY BROKEN during hanging. The breakage of the hyoid would suggest manual strangulation, whereby the victim was strangled using the hands, or via means of another implement (e.g. cord, belt, etc.). When strangulation is the case, death may be caused due to a lack of air, but more likely, as a result of the deliberate compression of
the neck, causing a vagal inhabitation, the situation where the stimulation of the of the neck's VAGUS NERVE causes the heart to stop. In cases where the hyoid bone is not broken, but bruising is evident around the nose and mouth , a death caused by smothering is indicated, thereby dying due to a lack of oxygen.
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Rebecca Zahau's hyoid bone was broken (fractured) according to ME Lucas AR.