The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[8paws]

I know a lot of you were not in open chat the two nights the show aired but we had a discussion about a pillow on kitchen counter. When the kitchen was shown (flashlight on counter) we saw a bed pillow on the counter. I have never read or heard anything about a pillow on the kitchen counter and wondered if any of you have. I was reminded about it when I watched a clip of the CBS show and Clemete addresses the pillow on the counter and it possibly being from JonBenet's bed. I'm off to look at crime scene photos but right now I don't recall seeing a pillow on JBR's bed.

 

[PositiveLight]

Not if the killer was too young to be charged for wrongful killing.

It seems rather obvious to me what the endangerment charges were all about. My interpretation is: the parents had good reason to know, based on previous happenings, that Burke was a danger to his sister; and they didn't adequately protect JonBenet. The CBS show did a good job of making this clear.

As for the other charge: my interpretations is: the parents covered up for Burke.

The GJ actually indicted them on assisting in the cover up of someone who committed First Degree Murder. I have to believe the grand jury had good reason for this finding. They saw evidence we will never see probably. First Degree Murder is a lot different than an accidental death in my opinion.

 

[PositiveLight]

Ramsey called his lawyer early. His lawyer would have told him. No police investigation or DA would have gone after them in that time (a couple of days) if the Ramseys had gone with their lawyer to see the police and make a statement about that. At any rate, adults instinctively know a small child isn't going to be guilty and charged. If it was someone in the house, it would have been one of the parents.

Something interesting to note here, IIRC the DA refused to sign warrants for the phone records and usual mandatory things in a case such as this. IIRC there were no calls made for the month of December from John's phone. Which is odd considering he is a business man. Seems someone cleared the call list for him that month. IMOO

 

[PositiveLight]

Except the situations are totally different and the boys were unsupervised and a couple of years older and they had a premeditated purpose to kill.

Burke was only a few weeks shy of his 10th birthday. So IMOO it would be hard to say that there is an exact line in the sand when a child can form intent. Not attacking you by no means! Just discussing! :toast:

 

[ConcernedinDC]

If BR is too young to be charged with wrongful killing, then that contradicts any motive the parents would have for covering for him. And there is no evidence that would stand up in court of any prior abuse from BR to JB. There's a bit said here to back up that idea, but on closer inspection it is mainly speculation.

How many people would know this? They weren't from Colorado and probably were not up to date on the laws. The internet wasn't as full of info back then either.

 

[wannagonorth]

Ramsey called his lawyer early. His lawyer would have told him.

That's assuming JR disclosed to his lawyer that Burke did it. Why would he do that if he's pushing the intruder theory?

 

[Tortoise]

It was a big story all over the world, including the US. I think the video footage of them luring him away from the store made for compelling viewing. I saw it again and again on the news.

The Ramseys did have the internet in their home, although it may have been for John's use only. Back then it was dial-up (which means "very slow" for any millennials out there) and while the Bulger murder would have been covered by online news outlets, streaming video was either non-existent or in it's infancy and buffered for ages.

Also, information was not easy to find - no Wiki or Yahoo questions - so it's highly unlikely Ramseys could have easily determined whether Burke would have been charged. And for any non-Americans, keep in mind that the 50 states all have different laws with regard to this. I have no idea what my state's law is about juvenile offenders, but today I could look it up on my phone in 10 seconds. Very different then.

I don't know if there is any connection here but I like to pay attention to connections (first thoughts) and when I read your post it made me think of the dictionary found open and the word incest circled. If I am spreading incorrect information I apologise, but I think I have read that.

 

[PositiveLight]

It was Christmas which throws general logic out the window. We don't have three meals on Christmas. We have a huge late breakfast and a huge mid afternoon 'dinner'. Snacking in between and after, desserts up the wazoo. Turkey sandwich late at night.

Some children only void their bowels every few days. Totally within the realm of normal. Some void three times a day. Also normal.

My family doesn't eat three meals either. Our routine is similar to yours. Also this is usually true for us most days. We don't sit down and eat as a family, rather, we eat our own different meals throughout the day and eat supper watching tv together. Not even at the table. So each family is so different. With busy schedules like the Ramsey children had, I would suspect they had a very weird eating pattern too. I am in no way judging PR and JR in how they fed their kids. They appeared healthy in that area. I imagine they ate here and there during the day and it would be quite normal. The thing I do find weird is how BR in his early interviews, said they weren't allowed snacks at bedtime or didn't eat snacks at bedtime, yet he says that he did. Which in my logic would mean he didn't follow the rules very often. I believe I read somewhere that Patsy didn't allow them to eat before bed due to both having bed wetting issues?? Not certain about that though but it would make some sense.

 

[Tortoise]

I know a lot of you were not in open chat the two nights the show aired but we had a discussion about a pillow on kitchen counter. When the kitchen was shown (flashlight on counter) we saw a bed pillow on the counter. I have never read or heard anything about a pillow on the kitchen counter and wondered if any of you have. I was reminded about it when I watched a clip of the CBS show and Clemete addresses the pillow on the counter and it possibly being from JonBenet's bed. I'm off to look at crime scene photos but right now I don't recall seeing a pillow on JBR's bed.

The pillow on JB's bed had a cartoon design on it (was it Beauty and the Beast?) and it was on the bed at the foot end.

 

[PositiveLight]

I might be wrong , but I seem to remember that I read that the set on the second floor was the stackable kind...back then those were much smaller capacity .
So it would make sense that a heavy blanket might now wash so well in it .

Then it would definitely make sense to be in the basement dryer. My mom's is the stackable kind also so when she has to was her covers and blankets, she brings them to our house. The smaller capacity washers will not wash big items. Believe me I've tried haha! The powdered laundry detergent doesn't even get wet. only the lower part of the blankets get wet. Plus the washer sounds like a jet engine. It sucks trying to drag a half soaking wet blanket covered in powder to another house to get washed! :laughing:
The smaller ones will however easily wash sheets and clothes. It's just the bigger items like that blanket that would require a large capacity washer.

 

[wannagonorth]

I do not think ANYONE can understand how they could discover one child missing and a ransom note and not immediately wake the other, older child to find out if he saw or heard anything at all unless of course, they know who did it and wanted to keep him from being taken to the police station and interrogated.

This, to me, is one of the parts of the Ramsey story that's hardest to believe. Truly concerned parents would have had everyone in the house up, calling, searching, and spilling whatever they knew.

 

[jslk]

This, to me, is one of the parts of the Ramsey story that's hardest to believe. Truly concerned parents would have had everyone in the house up, calling, searching, and spilling whatever they knew.

I would have been *in* the other child's room, looking under the bed, under the duvet, in the cupboards and anywhere else I could think of.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't know if there is any connection here but I like to pay attention to connections (first thoughts) and when I read your post it made me think of the dictionary found open and the word incest circled. If I am spreading incorrect information I apologise, but I think I have read that.

IIRC the page was dog eared to point to the word incest? Not sure either but I do remember it discussed that the dictionary was turned to that page and somehow that exact word was highlighted somehow. Could have been circled.

 

[CoreyRocks]

I don't understand why the White's didn't want to go on the CBS show and tell their side of events. Does anyone have insight on this? Where is the best place to go to understand the White's perspective on what happened?

It was odd how the CBS show brought them into the picture and then we got nothing else about what they said.

I found their interview on Denver radio talk show host Peter Boyles show insightful. It is in the archives on his site. They seem like amazing people ... former best friends of the Ramseys that were thrown under the bus as suspects by the Ramseys.

 

[PositiveLight]

This, to me, is one of the parts of the Ramsey story that's hardest to believe. Truly concerned parents would have had everyone in the house up, calling, searching, and spilling whatever they knew.

amen!!!! And definitely not shipping the other child (Burke) off to a friends house when the body hadn't even been found yet. If you are to believe what the ransom not said, they were being watched carefully. So not having the only child left in your lap during this time making sure HE is safe shocked me. They just left him in his room until they shipped him off to a friends home. Hello! If there was some small foreign faction out there watching you and your family, wouldn't you keep all your loved ones in eye sight? Nope not the Ramsey's. Shipped him off to a family friends home without protection. I guess he was expendable?
The only thing that makes sense given that they did this to their son, was, that they KNEW there was no one watching the house and that Burke was in no danger of also being kidnapped because they wrote the ransom note. Getting Burke out of the house also meant that he was away from the cops and couldn't be questioned. IIRC he was moved from the home like an hour after the cops arrived?

 

[PositiveLight]

I would have been *in* the other child's room, looking under the bed, under the duvet, in the cupboards and anywhere else I could think of.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Me too! And that child would be under my wing for the next 10 yrs to protect him from that "small foreign faction" that supposedly killed their daughter and never got the money they wanted. I'd be afraid they would come back for my other living child!

 

[PositiveLight]

I found their interview on Denver radio talk show host Peter Boyles show insightful. It is in the archives on his site. They seem like amazing people ... former best friends of the Ramseys that were thrown under the bus as suspects by the Ramseys.

ohhh can you link me to this???? I want to hear that interview! Interesting!

 

[CoreyRocks]

ohhh can you link me to this???? I want to hear that interview! Interesting!

Ok I will try and find it. I actually found it initially cause a sweet Websleuther posted it here. Let me check.

 

[Tortoise]

I would have been *in* the other child's room, looking under the bed, under the duvet, in the cupboards and anywhere else I could think of.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

She told a very unlikely story (as usual) in her police interview. It went like this -

She came down the stairs and bent over to read the ransom note. She read the word daughter. Her first thought was that it referred to Beth (John's daughter who had been killed in a car accident a few years prior). She said that she only realised the ransom note was current when she got to the part that said 'if you want your daughter to see 1997...'

What a load of baloney!

I know why she said that. Because she was anticipating being asked 'why did you immediately think the letter addressed to John referred to JonBenet?'

John has another daughter, Melinda. Yet she never thought it could be about her, so her explanation doesn't make sense.

She is a liar to the core. So is John.

And that is why I didn't credit parts of the CBS special that discounted the parents as the killers. They said patsy (and John) gave credible denials of having killed JonBenet. Well hang on, they denied everything, even owning the cereal bowl on their breakfast table and torch in their kitchen and most things besides! They denied writing the ransom note in equally strong terms. They are born and practiced liars. So that part made no sense to me - it seemed to be making the evidence fit their theory in that part.

Other things have made me doubt their conclusion also. Like BR was strong enough to wield the head blow. Well so were the parents. BR's prints are on the pineapple bowl and JonBenet ate some. Yes but that was likely well over 30 minutes before she was killed, judging by where it was in her digestive tract. So a lot wrong with their theory if you look at it objectively.

It might be that he was the killer but the show didn't really advance the case conclusively.

 

[PositiveLight]

Ok I will try and find it. I actually found it initially cause a sweet Websleuther posted it here. Let me check.

Thank you so much!!! I've been interested in how he felt forever! I truly appreciate your help! :happydance: