The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Aking]

Didn't Patsy say in an interview that when they had pineapple, they typically had canned pineapple? I don't think this was fresh cut pineapple. We'd have heard about pineapple rinds or a knife or something.

I can't remember where, but I think she bought already cut fresh pineapple that was in a plastic box - I picture a Whole Foods or something like that kind of product. Off topic - Is it common to eat pineapple with milk? I always thought it was pineapple with a glass of milk, not pineapple in a bowl of milk.

 

[ThinkHard]

Is it true that the pineapple in her stomach was green? I always pictured it as canned.

If you have ever tried to cut up a fresh pineapple, it is a nightmare.

Was there cut up pineapple in the frig as a snack?

I have actually cut up pineapple many times. I have worked with young kids and I swear I spent half my time cutting up fruit and veggies into appropriate size pieces. I'm also kind of a perfectionist when it comes to silly litte things like getting all the skin off fruit serving kids or cutting it all in neat little pieces. Maybe I'm going out on a limb but PR seems like she might have been a detail oriented bit of perfectionist as well. But who knows as there home wasn't exactly tidy...

Anyway just thinking about that and the big spoon it made me think more of a kid who would prepare it, and not notice those details.

But it also could have been canned as you suggested, or store bought already cut up, who knows....

It was just a detail I noticed when the talked about green in the pineapple bits and it made me question if that had any possible significance. I certainly am not suggesting it's conclusive proof of anything.

 

[Frigga]

Is it true that the pineapple in her stomach was green? I always pictured it as canned.

If you have ever tried to cut up a fresh pineapple, it is a nightmare.

Was there cut up pineapple in the frig as a snack?

Yes, there was pineapple in the fridge the kind that is cut up at the grocery store and purchased ready to eat or serve.

I am 51 years old- I love to cook, came from a family of great cooks and was a restaurant manager in fine dining for many years. I have never seen or served pineapple in milk- that is very specific and specifically now known (thanks to Burke) that was Jonbenets favorite snack. But, her prints are not on the bowl- Burkes and Patsy's prints are.

 

[human]

I can't remember where, but I think she bought already cut fresh pineapple that was in a plastic box - I picture a Whole Foods or something like that kind of product. Off topic - Is it common to eat pineapple with milk? I always thought it was pineapple with a glass of milk, not pineapple in a bowl of milk.

I would think the pineapple would curdle the milk fairly quickly.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thanks to everyone who clarified where the pineapple came from, and that it didn't need to be cut up to be served.

That certainly takes that line of reasoning off the table.

That leaves us with Burke and Patsy's fingerprints on the bowl, and his on the glass, an oversized spoon, and a snack that was JBR's preference, not his.

We also know his preference was chocolate....and we know chocolate with feces smeared on it was found in her room. I wonder how much of the chocolate was missing?

Thinking out load ... What if Burke offers to fix JBR a snack. As she's downstairs eating he sneaks up to her room with the flaslight to steal some chocolate. she's wondering where he has run off to and goes upstairs to look for him, finds him eating her chocolate or destroying it and fight endues.....?

Btw do we know anything regarding fingerprints on spoon?

I can see a six year old eating with their fingers if the spoon was huge, or just cause that's what kids do...but I'm wondering what was found on the spoon if anything?

 

[bodester413]

I can't tell if perhaps some of the marking are marker.....but it's definetly not ALL marker. There is for sure bruising on that hand.

And the bottom curve of the supposed "heart" looks like it was drawn with such force that it actually scratch her skin.

If it's said that heart was drawn I'll assume investigators know this because it was tested or came off easily with soap and water...but just looking at that picture it really doesn't look like someone drew on her hand at all, it looks like and injury.

You're right. I didn't notice that before. The part closer to the bottom of her hand looks like it was carved into the skin more than drawn. When I tried cleaning up the photo and enhancing it in Photoshop I can almost see where her skin had inflammation.....like when you scratch yourself if it's deep enough the skin turns reddish....

 

[Brendon]

The evidence speaks for itself when there are only 4 people in that house that night. There is no evidence there was an intruder. The lies, and all the items were from that household.

Who else besides the R's would of known of the random ransom amount of $118k? It's like a jigsaw puzzle, it may be circumstantial, but all the pieces fall into place, and I don't believe we were "tricked".

There is no evidence there wasn't an intruder.

What proof do you have that John Ramsey received $118,000 bonus that year that ties into the ransom note?

Nothing in your post is evidence, circumstantial or otherwise tying any of them directly to her killing. I'm talking the standard DNA, blood...evidence like that.

 

[madeleine]

There is no evidence there wasn't an intruder.

not sure I follow your logic

 

[madeleine]

it quacks like a duck but it must be a rabbit

 

[singularity]

There is no evidence there wasn't an intruder.

Oh really? I look foward to your explanation on why items in the basement are playing musical chairs throughout the day long after this phantom intruder has left the premises. To believe in an intruder means the family was covering for this intruder and I have yet to see anyone provide an explanation for this but maybe we'll get lucky and you can be the first person on the planet to make a case for it.

While you're at it, I'd also love an explanation on how the intruder knew which items should be tossed down in that hellhole basement.

 

[reintarnation]

What with all the thorough battery cleaning, ransom note writing and dictating, strangling their daughter, etc, there would be too little time and too much adrenalin pumping around to get any sleep that night. Which follows that from about 7.00am one day, to about 7.00pm the next day, that is a whopping 36 hours of absolute horror. I would have thought someone would have noticed the effects of exhaustion in both John and Patsy (inability to focus, nodding off, looking drunk or drugged, incoherent), at one point at least.

The absence of any record of this not a minor issue. As traumatized as these people were, they acted like they had at least some sleep in the previous 40 hours - in front of various witnesses.

Apologies, but I don't fully understand the meaning of your point?

FWIW:
1. It's possible PR & JR did get some sleep that night after returning home.
2. PR & JR took sleeping pills around this time. PR was on Prozac and Ativan and continued that for years - she was drugged, and looked like it (re: 01/01/97 CNN interview).

If you have "too much adrenalin[e] pumping" and your daughter has just been murdered, should they have visible "effects of exhaustion"? What "various witnesses" reported their sleepiness or lack thereof, and again, why do you feel this is significant?

With all due respect, Brandon, there are many posters on WS who have spent considerable time over the years exploring case evidence. Not just speculative theories or assuming how someone should or shouldn't act under given circumstances (which has and will continue to happen - you are doing exactly the same), but actual evidence - forensic, behavioral, and testimonial - collected by LE.

A treasure trove of this evidence can be found here: http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetindex.htm. That website is an excellent resource if you wish to take a deeper dive. Other threads on WS also review the evidence, if you care to browse back that far.

It's absolutely not necessary or expected for everyone to review each bit of evidence before positing a theory or commenting about the case on WS. That's exactly what WS is designed for - as a group, we can crowd-source information in an attempt to find the truth. I think that's what you are doing as well, and all reasonable theories (those backed up with evidence) are welcome here.

However, I do think it is irresponsible for you to make comments such as, "there is nothing connecting [the Ramseys] to her killing - except theories - with next to no evidence." That would mean that every expert and LE official who have connected the Ramseys to crime scene evidence, and the 1999 GJ who chose to indict the Ramseys based on that evidence, have zero credibility. Please take that into consideration and review that evidence before simply discounting it.

Additionally, if you are going to post about an intruder theory, you should do so with connections to evidence (discounting other theories without factual basis and postulating about how people should or shouldn't act doesn't count). Know that the Ramsey theories are supported by evidence, per the rules of the site owners, even if that evidence isn't listed every time someone posts. Remember that this is a 20 year old case with 20 years' worth of evidence and expert opinion to sift through. If you do not care enough to absorb any bit of that, then perhaps you should not participate.

 

[Brendon]

I can't really understand why you think this point is such a big deal. Like you stated above people in stressful situations are often running on adrenaline. So they can be up do days sometimes without sleeping. However there demeanor was or wasn't that day, which we actually don't know because it hasn't really been stated one way or the other, I think it tells us absolutely nothing!

If they weren't acting tired, what they were dealing with explains that no matter what the facts are, if the acted wide awake again what they were going through easily would explain that.

I don't think whether the parents acted tired or didn't act tired would give us any indication on the amount of sleep they may or may not have had, again given the extremely dramatic situation they found themselves in.

So respectfully, even if we did know this info....I don't see it as being a clue to anything, one way or another.

Lets go with the story that B hit her on the head, then P finished her off with the garotte. Well, its about 11pm, and yeah, Patsy is running on adrenaline. It helps her spend some time writing the ransom note, and cleaning the place up. At 8am, you could see her running on adrenaline. Been up for 24 hours, though. But this is all very exhausting. If she was still running on adrenaline 15 hours later, I got a feeling someone would have said something about her being incoherent or nodding off, which wouldn't make sense. She had a big day the day before, remember? So yes, that is no small thing.

 

[reintarnation]

I can't tell if perhaps some of the marking are marker.....but it's definetly not ALL marker. There is for sure bruising on that hand.

And the bottom curve of the supposed "heart" looks like it was drawn with such force that it actually scratch her skin.

If it's said that heart was drawn I'll assume investigators know this because it was tested or came off easily with soap and water...but just looking at that picture it really doesn't look like someone drew on her hand at all, it looks like and injury.

From the autopsy report: "Examination of the extremities is unremarkable. On the middle finger of the right hand is a yellow metal band. Around the right wrist is a yellow metal identification bracelet with the name "JonBenet" on one side and the date "12/25/96" on the other side. A red ink line drawing in the form of a heart is located on the palm of the left hand."

I agree with you - it never really looked like a heart to me. Keep in mind though that the picture posted in this thread has been enhanced. That in addition to the angle, lighting, time it was taken, etc. could change how we are seeing it versus what the ME (with witnesses to the autopsy) reported.

Attached is the original photo for reference.

 

[TTF14]

Yes, there was pineapple in the fridge the kind that is cut up at the grocery store and purchased ready to eat or serve.

I am 51 years old- I love to cook, came from a family of great cooks and was a restaurant manager in fine dining for many years. I have never seen or served pineapple in milk- that is very specific and specifically now known (thanks to Burke) that was Jonbenets favorite snack. But, her prints are not on the bowl- Burkes and Patsy's prints are.

I've never heard of pineapple and milk either, but it actually sounds tasty to me.

I think Patsy's prints were on the bowl simply because she probably unloaded the dishwasher.

 

[Luckymanuh]

There are a couple questions I have pertaining to the RN and its threats plus R's actions to RN.
#1--it stated "we are a group or individuals"--that would make me think there were more than ONE person of this "foreign faction" in their home at the time this RN was written.
#2--If I surmise according to what was written in the RN "we" why did multiple (even 2 people) have a hard time kidnapping with JBR and leave with her as stated in the RN? She was 6 yrs old! I would think they would gag her and carry her out
#3--Why killer her? She was worth more alive than dead.
#4--Why did the kidnappers give them a 2 hour window of when the would call? Usually I would think a specific time so they are still in control.
#5--Now to the ransom money request. Is there any mention that JR made arrangements between PR making the 911 call and the BPD arriving or even after they arrived to obtain the ransom money to get his daughter back? I would think that would have been his 2nd call to get the money ready in the $100 and $20 bill like the demanded so when they called they could move quickly on getting his daughter back.

Just questions I have for anyone who has read all the books and all the articles. I myself have not found answers to these questions.

 

[reintarnation]

Couldn't agree more. The plan was never for LE to search the entire house. The Ramseys thought they'd believe that she was actually kidnapped and not on that property anymore, leave the house at some point without searching it, and they'd be able to dispose of her body in a way that she'd never be found (like Madeline McCann.....not saying the McCann's are guilty, but she's never been found).

The grand jury, privy to information we never have been indicted them after finding they "did ... render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death." The documents provide no further details on who that "person" was.

As another websleuther pointed out yesterday, they certainly were not indicted because the grand jury found that they rendered assistance to an unknown intruder who murdered their daughter because why in the world would they want an unknown intruder to not face punishment for murder? There's only one reason for them to offer assistance to the murderer, and that's because they care deeply about that person. Logic says that person would most likely be a family member.

Bumping because this is just such good sleuthing.

 

[reintarnation]

Is it true that the pineapple in her stomach was green? I always pictured it as canned.

If you have ever tried to cut up a fresh pineapple, it is a nightmare.

Was there cut up pineapple in the frig as a snack?

Yes. Forensic testing was done to confirm that the pineapple left in the bowl matched the package of pre-cut pineapple found in the refrigerator. PR confirmed that she bought the pineapple pre-cut from their grocery store.

 

[UKGuy]

I can't remember where, but I think she bought already cut fresh pineapple that was in a plastic box - I picture a Whole Foods or something like that kind of product. Off topic - Is it common to eat pineapple with milk? I always thought it was pineapple with a glass of milk, not pineapple in a bowl of milk.

Aking,
Everyone should remember the R's are not saying the pineapple is not theirs, Pasty says she bought pineapple, already cut from Safeways.

.

 

[Brendon]

Additionally, if you are going to post about an intruder theory, you should do so with connections to evidence (discounting other theories without factual basis and postulating about how people should or shouldn't act doesn't count). Know that the Ramsey theories are supported by evidence, per the rules of the site owners, even if that evidence isn't listed every time someone posts. Remember that this is a 20 year old case with 20 years' worth of evidence and expert opinion to sift through. If you do not care enough to absorb any bit of that, then perhaps you should not participate.

(snipped for focus)

So I've got to come up with evidence. But you don't. OK.

Please don't assume I haven't followed this case. I know there is no compelling evidence whatsoever directly tying them into the killing of JB. Only theory and storylines.

I get the feeling from your comments you might not like it when people who reach different views to you. jmo I don't feel it appropriate to tell someone to leave a forum just because of that.
One moment the Ramsey's behavior and how they act is paramount, the next it isn't.

 

[Tortoise]

When a person has had a shock it's common to serve them sweetened tea.

It's interesting that the bowl of pineapple was not eaten. Yet the tea was drunk.

I can see someone making sweet tea with the teabag left in the glass, who isn't used to making it in a pan. Patsy always boiled sweet tea in a pan. If Burke was making sweet tea, he'd probably make it as he'd watched his mother do it. John didn't know how to make it.

Just a few ideas.