The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[madeleine]

was reading Wood's tweets and dunno if I am understanding this correctly. Is he suing them separately?? He says Spitz next week for claims on the show and cbs within 30 days.

IF he wins against spitz and lee for ex this brings part of the bdi theory down.

 

[madeleine]

the case against Spitz is easy. You can't really prove that was the murder weapon. And you can't really place it in BR's hands that night anyway. Next.

 

[BBB167893]

it is all the above and more why I can't stand the two.I don't trust their opinion. Wood will be able to discredit them in two seconds. They were a BAD choice for this show. This show and if there will be a lawsuit might be the only chance for some truth and justice. IMO all that is kinda ruined by these two being part of the process.

Don't forget, madeleine: a LOT of people can be deposed, not just them.

 

[BBB167893]

was reading Wood's tweets and dunno if I am understanding this correctly. Is he suing them separately?? He says Spitz next week for claims on the show and cbs within 30 days.

IF he wins against spitz and lee for ex this brings part of the bdi theory down.

I'm sure they've seen worse than him!

 

[madeleine]

It's just that I would hate for the rest of the team to go down just because of these two shallow experts.

 

[dizzychick]

the new DNA found on leggings and both sides of panties or visa versa. IF this is the killer's genetic information then wouldnt it also be on the duct tape, rope, paint brush stick, ransom note etc etc ???

 

[dizzychick]

I snickered when I heard JR say " a friend tipped him off that they were being targeted" LOL What he doesnt have enough sense to figure that out from the get go ? LOL Their behavior from the moment the cops were called is what led the police to target them. It is clear that the moment they refused to go with the police to the station tells me he knew darn good and well they were suspects and he knew he was going to refuse to cooperate until he hired a lawyer. I just think its a tad bit manipulative for JR to openly say he needed a friend to advise him that he and PR were on the chit list LOL This one little statement he made hints at how he is fully capable of trying to deceive the cops, media and public...

 

[Becki Boo]

I finally got to see it (thanks YouTube!). Something I found surprising was how messy the house was in the crime scene videos! Is that a result of police work or would the video have been taken before that? I was just taken aback by the "perfect" Ramsey's not so perfect house!

I apologize if this has been answered already, I haven't read to the end of the thread yet. I've read multiple times that the private areas house were filthy, not just messy but filthy dirty. That might also explain the soda cans in Burke's bathroom sink, as dirty as the house is, they may have been there for weeks.

 

[madeleine]

Clemente says on twitter they hope that the DA retracts the exoneration letters&lets the bpd close the case. Then the files can be opened to the public.

 

[madeleine]

It is killing me. It is always up to the boulder DA who we all know won't to anything!

 

[Me66]

I'm still confused as to how they got the early Burke interview footage. Surely that isn't public domain or it would have been seen before. The contents of it were leaked in the Bonita papers I believe, but the footage itself is new. Where did they get hold of that?

 

[Wysteria]

I guess maybe it's more common than I thought then. The combination of trains and tying up just makes me think of those cartoons and think yeah maybe Jonbenet would have joined in with that thinking it was all a fun game... and then it turned sinister.

It's an interesting theory, I don't recall reading about to date. (referring to your tying/train theory).
However, anything that that family did would not surprise me in the least.
Additionally, you were correct in your first assumption as I've had years and years of interacting with children...they don't play "tying up games". Typically, usually or otherwise. That statement is patently absurd. (with exception of the R family and a handful of other "unusual" families perhaps).
Some side notes:
As far as allergy medications in the '90's?...anything other than FDA approved methods for treatment by a licensed professional is dubious at best.
Yes, JonBenet had allergies; I've no idea though, in all of the research I've done on this case so far how it/they (allergies) were treated, unless I've forgotten.
In reference to my 3rd sentence; I would never share a "story" regarding the treatment of children that I've dealt with over the years.

Thanks SuperDave for the head's up regarding the A&E show.

I've watched the CBS special twice and the only opinion I feel comfortable sharing is that the conclusion reinforced what I've believed for a few years.
Burke initiated the horrific events. IMO, MOO etc..

 

[Tortoise]

I'm still confused as to how they got the early Burke interview footage. Surely that isn't public domain or it would have been seen before. The contents of it were leaked in the Bonita papers I believe, but the footage itself is new. Where did they get hold of that?

Perhaps they could because Burke agreed, because it was used in the Dr Phil show? I don't mean Burke agreed to let CBS use the footage, but that he consented to it being released for publication and that had to include consent for anyone to use it, not just him.

 

[dizzychick]

This is discusting to think about : and he says its hard core evidence [video=youtube;cHxga04YltI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxga04YltI[/video]

 

[Tortoise]

Now thinking on this some more. Mmm, interesting.

They asked Patsy what the subject of the painting was that she had made for John. I can't remember what her answer was without checking, but I think it was a boating scene.

They asked John the same question and he came up with a completely different scene, it may have been golf, but again without checking I can't be sure. All that stood out for me was that they had given different answers and I thought it very ODD, because you would know if someone had made you a painting what it was a painting of, it would be special and personal because it was made for you.

If my above speculated reason for the purchase of tape and string was correct, one of them may have been lying (or both) so that these materials couldn't be verified. Give them the wrong painting if they asked to take it into evidence. wink wink.

Well my BS-o-Meter is now on red alert. My review of the interview transcripts reveals it was even worse than what I first thought I remembered.


Patsy:-

[FONT=&amp]13 TOM HANEY: How about John, what did he get?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I made him a painting --[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]15 golf or whatever it is. He gave me a gold bracelet.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]16 I had given JonBenet a little gold bracelet[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]17 the night of our Christmas party. It had her name[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]18 engraved on it Christmas day, but she was all dressed[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]19 up that night, and I gave her that. She got a lot of[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]20 craft making things, the little bead things you melt[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]21 together kind of, stuff from Toys R Us.

These are taken from the 1998 interviews. Notice how she is asked what John got for Christmas and she quickly diverts to what she got and what she gave JonBenet. My first observation is if you have made a painting that took a lot of time to complete you don't say "or whatever it is", you do know very well what it is, you are the creator. My second observation is she tries to bury her answer amongst a load of other information that isn't asked for. If you go to the interview transcripts at line 396 and thereabouts, you will notice she sticks to answering just the question asked - before and after that question. I'm convinced that this was a lie and she felt uncomfortable so had to keep talking, to divert away from the subject. Seen with John's answers in his interview, I feel comfortable now in concluding that the tape and cord purchases were specific to the painting she made. John confirms it with an absolute massive red flag when he says that the painting Patsy gave him was of a completely different scene and wasn't even made by Patsy, it was made by a local artist. So the fixings on the back would already be in place and would not come from Patsy's supplies. Making it an ideal painting to offer up for inspection. Not only that, but its position behind the couch after being unwrapped suggests it's been placed there out of view.


John:-

[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]21 LOU SMIT: This may not be exactly the[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]22 time to interject, but did you get a painting for[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]23 Christmas?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]24 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, that's right.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]25 LOU SMIT: Tell me about that.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]0083[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 1 JOHN RAMSEY: It was a painting of some[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 2 boats at anchor that Patsy had seen in, I think, a[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 3 local art store. It was done by a local Boulder[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 4 artist. And she had got me that for Christmas[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 5 which were going to take it up to our cottage up[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 6 in Michigan. It was behind the couch, I think.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 7 LOU SMIT: Yeah. I was just wondering[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 8 where that would have been kept that evening.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 9 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. That's where it was[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]10 the next morning. I don't know how long it had[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]11 been there.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]12 LOU SMIT: But it's small enough to hide[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]13 behind the couch (INAUDIBLE)?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]14 JOHN RAMSEY: It could have been behind --[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]15 probably about that high and not quite as wide as[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]16 that wall. So it was fairly large. And I recall[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]17 that's where she had it; behind the couch. And[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]18 then she got that out, that was when Christmas was[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]19 all over.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]20 LOU SMIT: It was wrapped?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. The picture was wrapped.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]22 LOU SMIT: I was just wondering, like when you[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]23 brought the bikes back in and Patsy was already in[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]24 bed and then --[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]25 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]0084[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 1 LOU SMIT: -- I don't know if you would[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 2 have[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 3 seen something like that?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 4 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't see it. So I knew[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 5 it must have been there by the couch. That's my[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 6 assumption.[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

My God, I can't believe it. John even says he doesn't know how long it's been behind the couch when he knew he had unwrapped it on Christmas Day! So it had to have been there exactly after he opened it to when the police photographed it. One day! And his extra information about the local artist and taking it to Michigan is not relevant, it's extra information. That's always a red flag.

They are such bull-sh1tters.

 

[Sphinx]

I thought that when Patsy died, John would put out a public statement blaming her and some kind of story that it was an accident and that he couldn't come forward before that because of her fragile condition and then her cancer returned so he couldn't do it then. He would have claimed he was protecting Burke or something. But that never happened.

I think John might have been charged with obstruction of justice, misleading LE, indignity to a body, etc. Besides that, there is his reputation. He does not want to be seen as a liar, and someone who would stage his daughter's death, in order to protect his son, but even more importantly to protect political ambitions. This was mentioned in other posts when the suspected crown attorney coverup was being discussed. LE trying to investigate were told that there were "political" issues. It would have been hard for him to run for Congress, or even eventually perhaps the Presidency, or Vice Presidency, if it were known his psychopathic son killed his daughter. Their judgement would be questioned, and they would look like terrible parents. How could they let this happen in their own house, knowing their son was violent towards her, and was in psychiatric treatment ? No, if you are going to run for political office, you need to project the image of a perfect, or at least wholesome, appealing family. I believe the Whites, and other friends have many stories about Burke's strangeness, and violence towards JBR, as well as other children. Maybe he played alone because they feared him, and did not want their children playing with him. Also, he probably did not interact well with other children, and they probably did not like him. I believe Burke is a textbook psychopath. He will never change, and he is not sorry. Recently John ran for public office, but he lost. I think this has been a dream of his for a very long time, and Burke ruined it for him. It is very hard to say what causes someone to be a psychopath, it could be they are born with defective brains, or maybe he had a serious brain injury, like a fall when he was a baby. Were his full medical records ever made available, or were they sealed ? IMO

 

[doubtingthomas]

A&E stated the Ramsey’s got home around 10pm. JB’s tombstone has death Dec 25th. That means she dies by 12pm. So we have a two hour window. It was estimated it would take 20-30 minutes to write the ransom note. So now you have 1 and a half hours. We also know that JR and BR went downstairs to put a toy together so BR would go to bed. So another 15-20 minutes maybe? So are we now down to 1 hour? Could an intruder have done all that was done in a 1 hour timeframe?
So an intruder climbs in a basement window. I assume no lights on so it has to be dark. They need to find their way to the stairs and upstairs to the first floor to JB’s bedroom. Was BR’s bedroom on the first floor also? So now they have to find which room JB is in.
So if intruder looks in BR’s bedroom first how would they know if it was BR or JB? So intruder finds JB. A&E says she was snatched from her bed. PR says the next morning she walked by JB’s room to go downstairs and her door was closed so she looked in on her and that was when she saw JB was missing. WHAT INTRUDER SNATCHES A GIRL FROM HER BED AND CLOSES THE DOOR BEHIND THEM? Wouldn’t they want to leave as soon as possible? If all they wanted was ransom money and opened BR’s door first, why not take him instead of JB?

 

[CorallaroC]

(rsbm)
I wonder if it was those smudges or the ones in the basement. Seems like someone was still smearing lots of stuff on the walls. For context (emphasis mine):

15 TRIP DEMUTH: Look at all those pictures,
16 242, 43 and 44 and 45 together.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the little bathroom in
18 the basement.
19 TOM HANEY: Anything out of place or unusual
20 in those photos?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the bathroom we hadn't
22 utilized very much. These little Christmas decorations
23 were left over from -- I had put those there when we
24 had the home tour two years earlier, because the
25 volunteers used this area and I had a bathroom
0408
1 available.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: That photo 244 was shut, is
3 that how you left them?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that, yes. I would have
5 left that. I left it like that.
6 Now this, I don't know what that is -- why
7 that would be there.
8TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to like tissue.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: It is like tissue something,
10 because I remember I specifically asked Linda some time
11 in the not-so-distant future to go down and clean that
12 bathroom because I think one of the boys had used the
13 bathroom and not flushed it. It was kind of yucko, so
14 she had gone down there. So I don't know if that is
15 her cleaning rag she left there or what.
16 TOM HANEY: Do you know for a fact that she
17 did clean it, could she have been in there since?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I don't remember that too
19 much about that bathroom.
20 TOM HANEY: When you were present she wasn't
21 in there?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. The door was usually
23 closed because that -- that door opens right when you
24 came down those steps. (Inaudible). There are a bunch
25 of smears on here.
0409
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to 205.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall seeing anything
4 like that there before seeing that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No, because I had that whole
6 downstairs painted, I mean cleaned.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, 1994, before that home
9 tour, Christmas home tour.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Who used that bathroom?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: The boys. You know, Burke and
12 Evan were down there playing with the trains. They
13 would go in there and use it.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: What do you mean that they had
15 not flushed that toilet, what do you mean by that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think someone had gone
17 to the potty and hadn't flushed it. It was there for
18 several days.
19 TOM HANEY: Are we talking urine?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It was just
21 reported to me. It was, mom, the bathroom is pretty
22 yucky, and Linda took care of it is the way I think it
23 went.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: How common was it for Evan and
25 Burke to not flush?
0410
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Burke is pretty well
2 trained, because that is one of my big pet peeves, but
3 Evan I don't know about.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: What does that mean, Patsy,
5 when you say you don't know about?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know whether he
7 flushes regularly.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: That could imply, I don't know
9 about him because he doesn't flush, or I wanted to
10 clear that up.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I would believe
12 it was Evan that used it and didn't flush rather than
13 my son. I would like to believe that.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Was it a more than one-time
15 occasion in this bathroom down there?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember that one.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that? It doesn't have
18 to be precise, I mean how long before Christmas?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't know
20 exactly. I just remember it happening.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: Right before Christmas?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't remember. I just
23 remember the event that there was a dirty bathroom bowl
24 and obviously the boys were down there using it and not
25 flushing.
0411
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know, did Linda clean it
2 up, do you know?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- I am sure she did, but I
4 didn't go down there and double check it.
5 TOM HANEY: Is she usually pretty confident
6 if you give her something?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Had you been in this bathroom
9 at all prior to Christmas of '96?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I hadn't been in there.
11 You can tell I haven't been in there since '94.
12 TOM HANEY: Anything else? The tissue of
13 some kind.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
15 TOM HANEY: 246 now.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Is that the hall
17 from here? No.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: That is a closer picture of the
19wall.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, is it? Okay. It looks
21dirty to me, that close up.
​

Hi OTG, I wanted to quote your whole post, because this excerpt of the PR interview is very telling in many ways - and worth several re-reads. Before we continue on with discussion - I would like to point out the part where I made the font larger for emphasis ----- PR says RIGHT HERE that the poopy thing was her "pet peeve".

So when anyone suggests that bedwetting, or soiled poopy clothing, or poos smeared on walls was no-big-deal for PR, I would use this part of her interview to counter that. Just because PR was obviously not inclined to clean up those types of messes well enough to keep "outsiders" from observing it, and all her protestations aside that it did not matter that much to her - HERE she clearly states that it was a "pet peeve" of hers. There was not 1 word about it possibly being a mal-functioning toilet - no she HOPED it was not her son - musta been the neighbor kid. Musta been everybody else's fault...... big red flag to me

 

[PositiveLight]

You got it. And it was what I suspected: just the Sept 5 crock with a minimum of new stuff. For God's sake, they're still trying to shill Leon Kelly and Richard Eikelenboom as experts, when the former is an incompetent and the latter has been exposed as a fraud in open court.

BTW, Eikelenboom now admits that he didn't examine the DNA (so how could he know it was Hispanic?). He's now claiming, in classic IDI fashion, that the big bad police conspiracy (I really should trademark that) is out to discredit and block him. God almighty. here you go:

[video=youtube;trNaXW1DQJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNaXW1DQJc&list=FLpfeKxaoUPtIiMu4Rmw2D1g&index=1[/video]

I'll tell you what: when that crock first aired, I was so upset at the BS they shoveled out, I didn't notice some important things. Most notably, all of the "experts" who said the head injury came last are all basing their opinions on the assumption that the marks on JonBenet's neck were fingernail scratches. And we know that they were not. So long, guys.

Thank you for the link! I will make sure to watch it when everyone is asleep so I don't wake them up cussing at the TV. Lol

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk