The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[cattlekate]

The flashlight demonstration was jolting. The impression does look similar.

Interesting how some of the very things the Ramseys denied knowledge about are just the things which are so important.

Denying seeing many movies, denying paying attention to "Speed," denying knowledge of anyone eating pineapple, saying the pineapple bowl didn't look familiar, being confused about if JBR had the package of big panties and what drawer they'd be in, pretending it's normal to wear the same outfit two days in a row (Patsy wore the same suit for a tv interview after she wore it just days before while talking to detectives), saying Burke was asleep, and being all squirrelly and evasive about the flashlight, throwing in minutia like it's "dirty."

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-flashlight.htm

 

[UKGuy]

Until the last couple years I had never even thought of BR as the suspect but this theory seems to pull together all the weird pieces of the puzzle. I've never been a PR did it theorist; I believe her life revolved around Jon Benet and she loved her dearly. But we have what seems like a frequently absent father who seems emotionally distant. A mom who loves her kids but is probably too sick a lot of the time to supervise them, and when she's involved with them, the focus is more on JBR than BR. Some kind of dysfunction and sibling rivalry maybe grew out of that, along with possibly other issues BR had, and maybe even something happened Christmas day that really bothered him. JBR got better gifts, got more attention, etc.
If he did the head bashing and the garrotte (possibly the paintbrush too) that leaves the parents with just the ransom note and the cover up. I could never imagine how a parent could strangle their child to cover up for the other one bashing them in the head. Why not just claim an accident? (Kids were playing, JBR fell and hit her head, or BR accidentally hit her with something.) But if your child garrotted his sister and perpetrated a sexual crime on her, then I can see the parents going to such lengths to protect him. I don't sympathize with the parents. If they knew there were serious problems, they should have been addressed long before it came to this, but it relieves us of having to imagine PR or JR doing the garrotte and the paintbrush. It leaves them with a horrible and unimaginable tragedy with one child dead and one who caused the death.
Also, I wonder about the wine cellar door that had the lock high up at the top and a chair nearby. Could BR have used the chair to stand in to reach the lock?

dogperson,
BR would have no problem undoing the latch, Kolar says he was in the wine-cellar Christmas Afternoon. BR might have manually strangled JonBenet and the ligature is staging to mask this, as might any internal assault, i.e. she was bleeding.

Did the collection of JonBenet pictures found in the basement belong to BR? If so can you imagine what that implies?

For the cognoscenti is The Case of JonBenet Ramsey an accident staged to appear as a sexual assault with asphyxiation, or a sexual assault staged to appear as abduction with asphyxiation?

.

 

[asyousay]

That ransom notes so long I dozed off when reading it . Has a ransom note ever been so long as it's page after page of talking crap when you normally just get to the point as quick as possible.

 

[just the facts pls]

I don't know if he has autism or not, but I wouldn't believe Dr. Phil if he was swearing on a stack of bibles standing on his mother's grave.

Maybe that's why.

The only reason I believe Dr Phil is because he's obviously the puppet of the R's and LW. He's not going to speak to anything that they haven't already affirmed themselves since they are trying desperately to control the narrative.

 

[New1]

Here's my thoughts, or at least a few of them: I can't get passed the ransom note when considering it was an intruder. The note was way too long with way too much information, plus it was written inside the house with Patsy's pen and paper, then put back in the place where it was usually kept. It took the investigators on CBS some 22 minutes just to COPY the note. Factor in the time it took to practice writing the note and thinking of what to write, and you have probably 45 minutes to an hour writing the ransom note. No intruder would take the risk of spending that much time in a strange house. My thoughts from the start were that BR killed her, but it wasn't intentional and that he might not even know that he did it. He could have thought he just knocked her out. I don't believe any of them even went to bed that night except Burke. I think J and P found, or became aware, that JonBenet was dead or dying that night, Burke was sent to bed thinking she'd be OK, and J and P spent the rest of the night writing the note and staging the death scene. Crazy and far-fetched? IDK.

 

[makayla]

I just finished watching. BR will be named I think. PR and JR covered it up and protected BR because they were scared of what secrets he might share about what went on in that house. Clearly JBR had been abused in the past and it wouldn't surprise me if BR was acting out things done to him on his sister and it snowballed. J and P HAD to cover for him to protect the abuser.

All my opinion etc.

In my opinion it's possible that both JonBenet and Burke had been abused. I read online that fecal smearing could be a sign of sexual abuse. It does appear that Burke was acting out and who knows why? It would never surprise me to learn that secrets were kept in the Ramsey household. I know that it sounds horrific that there could be sexual abuse not only by an adult, but between children of their ages - I am still shocked by that fact, but my daughter, who is an attorney, confirmed that it is possible and she has dealt with it in her practice. I doubt we will ever know the true story of what went on in the Ramsey home, and especially the terrible events of December 25th and 26th, 1996. I am so very grateful for this CBS series, as it seems to be dealing with the facts and analysis of the case, without the "drama" seen on other specials.

 

[just the facts pls]

We will have to agree to disagree


I think the family are vile and have done everything within there power to stop the truth coming out. If Burke is guilty (I believe he is) then I don't even blame him. He grew up in a toxic environment where his sister was clearly loved and adored and was the favourite with Patsy and he was angry and prone to lashing out which was probably a cry for attention. And that night he lashed out again at his sister with tragic consequences and the parents covered it up.

Or it's possible that he exhibited serious problematic behavior and J&PR poured everything into JBR hoping for her to turn out normal. When they did that, and put JBR in the pageant industry, it would probably only acerbate any symptoms BR might have been having already.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

Burke was sent to bed thinking she'd be OK, and J and P spent the rest of the night writing the note and staging the death scene. Crazy and far-fetched? IDK.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Madeleine74]

In every single case of wrongful conviction there was evidence that pointed to the defendant. Just being innocent isn't always enough.

No, in most cases of wrongful conviction eyewitness testimony (mistaken or outright lied) is what nailed the person and/or false or coerced statements and/or coerced confessions.

And it's DNA that usually exonerates the wrongfully convicted. Either DNA is available that leads to the real perp, or the evidence is tested and the DNA doesn't match the person convicted.

The Ramsey's were *never* in danger of any kind of wrongful conviction, let alone an arrest. They lawyered-up immediately, no other witnesses to the crime aside from inside that house, and they did everything they could to control and thwart the investigation. They strong-armed people so as few people as possible would talk to police.

 

[otg]

In Kolar's book in (I believe) Part Four, he details that a friend - I believe it was Ms Stine? - overheard Burke chatting with her son about how JBR was strangled, and the timing was before Kolar expected the Ramseys would have been privvy to those details. She was disturbed by the tone and content of the conversation, but when questioned about it again, she denied it or wouldn't speak or something to the effect.

I agree with your logic here, Schuby, but I do think that this is an extremely unique case where testimony from those who knew the family best can provide tremendous insight.

I think the way it went down is that the pit bull told someone else (another friend or neighbor?) that she had overheard the conversation and that Burke was talking nonchalantly about the manner of the strangulation. The person she told about it then told BPD. When they asked Stine about it, she denied it.


***ETA: Found the reference in FF. [Mary Ann Kaempfer had a son (Anthony Pecchio) who was a classmate and friend of Burke's]:

While attending the memorial services in Boulder, and while playing with Anthony in Atlanta, Burke was described by Anthony as acting like “he kind of knew what happened and trusted that
people would find out.”

Anthony indicated that Burke may have appeared “confused” at times, but was not acting upset and indicated that he was not scared. When asked how he was doing, Burke said he was “fine.” Anthony told investigators that he never saw Burke cry during their stay in Atlanta.

Kaempfer advised that the only time she had seen him display some emotion and sadness was at the cemetery after the graveside services. He had left a group of people and went to the side of JonBenét’s casket, patting it gently.

After that brief display of caring, Burke and Anthony went exploring, skipping through the headstones in the cemetery.

Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenét’s school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996.

Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.” This discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than 2 days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with
Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.
​

 

[just the facts pls]

Why do people keep saying Burke has autism as Dr Phil who spent loads of time with him has stated there is absolutely nothing wrong with him apart from the fact he is nervous?

Yes, and I also assume Dr Phil is in a position to say yay or nay to this, since he and BR share the same lawyer and nothing would be said on his show if it weren't approved by the Rs first.

 

[Schuby]

dogperson,
For the cognoscenti is The Case of JonBenet Ramsey an accident staged to appear as a sexual assault with asphyxiation, or a sexual assault staged to appear as abduction with asphyxiation?

.

The blood and abrasions around the vaginal area indicate she was alive during the sexual assault making it unlikely to be staging.

 

[Kay0315]

Well, I may be alone, but I think Spitz did an incredible job in explaining how the head injury and the force/velocity of the blow would send shock waves throughout the brain and JBR would have been brain dead from the blow. Also, I am glad that both he and Lee made it clear that not a tremendous amount of force was needed to make that injury - a child could have done it and in fact we saw a child deliver a very similar blow to a model of a child's skull which we learned is not nearly as hard as that of an adult.
It was also very interesting that Spitz opined that the cording was completely unnecessary. The wrist cords were loose and obviously placed after the child was struck on the head otherwise she could have taken them off easily. The strangulation was unnecessary as the child was already brain dead and her shallow breathing and faint heart beat could have been stopped with hands. No 'garotte' was required, it was staging to make the entire death look like something it wasn't.

'We're not talking to you."
"What did you do? Help me, Jesus."
"What did you find?"
"We've called the police, now what?"

At last, the R's lies are being publicly exposed. It has been a long time coming. We have always known everything that this series has revealed thus far but it is nice to hear some experts affirm what we have always believed.

It was very telling that Judith Phillips and Kim Archuleta were reduced to tears while talking about JBR but the 2 remaining family members who were there at the crime scene were smiling and nonchalant about their memories.

If LW wants to sue anyone, he should sue BR for telling everyone that he went downstairs after everyone was asleep because this was truly the only 'new' info we got and it came from DP's show which LW approved. I understand that LW was in a tweeting frenzy last night during the show. I must say that I find that behavior to be so unprofessional and done is such poor judgment that it should raise concerns for anyone who is his client.

Yesterday a program on A&E showed scratch marks on JBR neck indicating she was trying to grab the cord as it tightened around her neck. Then concluded she would have been alive while the garrote was used and possibly the head trauma came later?

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Continued from my last post...
So this is a common knot (unintelligible)

RSBM

I think the inaudible part was: "Spitz: 'It is or it's somebody who knows how to make knots. So this is a common knot for a sailor.'"

Thank you so much for these summaries!!

 

[Madeleine74]

That ransom notes so long I dozed off when reading it . Has a ransom note ever been so long as it's page after page of talking crap when you normally just get to the point as quick as possible.

According to the FBI, they've never seen a ransom note this long, AND, they've never had a single case in the entire history of the FBI where a RN was left and the murdered victim was also in the same structure. Source: Ron Walker, who was on last night's CBS show.

 

[Schuby]

No, in most cases of wrongful conviction eyewitness testimony (mistaken or outright lied) is what nailed the person and/or false or coerced statements and/or coerced confessions..

Eyewitness testimony and forced confessions are evidence. Misleading though they may be, they are evidence nontheless.

 

[Feebot]

My recorder messed up and I didn't get to see Part 1. Does anyone know if/when they will show it again? Is there anywhere else I can watch Part 1? Thanks.

 

[just the facts pls]

Wait. I thought the bogus touch DNA belonged to a Hispanic male? Are the IDIs now going to throw the gardener under the bus? He must be the official gardener of our "small foreign faction." LOL

I'm not an expert of DNA but I do know that ancestry DNA tests test over 700,000 markers to determine ethnicity. From what I've read/seen, DNA found on JBRs underpants and long johns were the result of touch DNA or could have been deposited there during a sneeze or even when JR moved the body.

If they've determined a match by only FOUR segments, then how in the world am I supposed to believe it's a Hispanic male when no ancestry DNA test worth their salt would test for less than several hundred thousand?

 

[matou]

Here is the link for Canadians to watch part 1:

http://www.globaltv.com/thecaseofjo...nbent-ramsey-part-1/video.html?v=768514115949

 

[margarita25]

Kolar has done several (3, I think) podcast interviews with Tricia. Heck, even I got to ask him a couple of questions by phone. Unfortunately, he was still a little tight-lipped about some things for fear or apprehension about a possible lawsuit. He was very careful in his book to avoid any direct accusations.

I think the podcasts can still be found online. If someone else doesn't offer the links, I'll look for them later. :smile:

Then again, maybe Tricia (hint, hint) will see if she can get him on again to discuss his involvement with the CBS documentary.

I had wondered about that, thanks otg. I am just now digging into ws wealth of discussions here. Amazing stuff. This all goes way deeper than I ever imagined. You guys have been at it here for years. Looking forward to tonights broadcast.