The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[BetteDavisEyes]

Sorry if mentioned, did you guys see the CBS preview clip yesterday for today of Burke's interview, where he comments on secrets, something like if he remembered any, he wouldn't tell you anyway?

Pretty cocky, if you ask me. The remark also sounds juvenile. "I know something that you don't know, and I'm not going to tell you" sounds like something 9- or10-year-olds would say. :moo:

 

[chlban]

I've read somewhere JonBenet's DNA was on items inside the suitcase. I think it was on a pillow cover and something else.


ETA, No I was wrong. This is what I saw -
"Was JBR Placed in Suitcase? There is conflicting fiber evidence suggesting that fibers from the sham and duvet inside the suitcase were found on JBR's body. Some have speculated someone attempted to place JBR inside the suitcase to remove her (dead or alive) from the house." http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement

Lou Smits theory was that the "intruder" placed her in the suitcase only to realize that he (or she, I guess) could not fit the suitcase through that basement window. That was his explanation for the suitcase being beneath the window. Guess it never occurred to him that could just as likely have been John or Patsy placing her there and discovering the same problem.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

Fascinating show! I haven't followed the case closely but I do remember the stories being all over the news for at least a year. I watched the special that was on another network earlier this year so I felt like I was sort of caught up on the facts of the case. But there were some parts of this show that were shocking.

The information about the pad and pen being found "in their usual places" was a bombshell to my husband and I. Yes, it's all so crazy, with the over the top ransom note but what intruder puts the pen and paper back where they belong?? None. And the comment one of the investigators made that in his experience when a familial (or close) murder takes place the murderer will often set it up so they are with some other innocent party when the body is discovered. Wow. It makes sense, but hearing it in this context was pretty huge. We were wide-eyed. I couldn't watch the part where they whacked a skull model. Even listening to it was bad. My god, poor Jon Benet.

I'm sure it's because I'm a mother but I kind of feel sorry for Burke. If they do 'name a name' and it's him, let's hope it's with more evidence than they've presented so far. It seems like he was a kid probably with Autism who comes across as 'weird and creepy'. Weird and creepy is not a crime. His parents certainly appear to be guilty of a criminal cover up but nothing we've seen so far proves which of the three people in the house was a killer.

Can't wait for Part 2.

 

[Madeleine74]

Pretty cocky, if you ask me. The remark also sounds juvenile. "I know something that you don't know, and I'm not going to tell you" sounds like something 9- or10-year-olds would say. :moo:

He was between 9 and 11 when he said it (it's on one of the videos of him).

 

[otg]

Okay then I object to the word "murder." Murder requires intent. The only intent was to cover this up and try to make it look like something else. That's heinous, absolutely, but the actual striking of the head was not murder, in the legal sense.

Because of what I think happened, I always avoided using the word "murder" to describe what was done. But TeaTime is correct about the meaning of the word "homicide." If this was indeed an unintended or accidental death, it wouldn't be a murder in the legal sense except that it resulted from the commission of another felonious act (kidnapping, sexual assault, robbery, etc.). In Colorado that is their statute on "Felony Murder" which is a class-1 felony.

 

[asyousay]

Why do people keep saying Burke has autism as Dr Phil who spent loads of time with him has stated there is absolutely nothing wrong with him apart from the fact he is nervous?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

He was between 9 and 11 when he said it (it's on one of the videos of him).

Yes, I saw the clip. Burke also answers Dr. Phil with "maybe" during the interview which is the same type of cocky reply. I don't like Burke Ramsey.

 

[lilacstarz]

Why do people keep saying Burke has autism as Dr Phil who spent loads of time with him has stated there is absolutely nothing wrong with him apart from the fact he is nervous?

I would really like to know if he does or doesn't have autism. I feel like if he was a diagnosed, they would've mentioned that in the beginning because it was explain some of his mannerisms. His mannerisms were more than him just being shy. Something is different. He may have some sort of undiagnosed personality disorder rather than autism.

 

[Annapurna]

The findings you referenced from the autopsy were ruled out as semen or other bodily fluids. I forget the exact name of how it was described after testing/analysis of the sample. I don't think the origin was ever conclusively determined, but it is possibly residue from a wipe used to clean JBR.

As for the practice RNs, I know there were pages missing from the writing pad and that a page starting "Dear Mr. and Mrs. I" was found in the pad. Below is a link to A Candy Rose website (excellent resource, btw), that details what was found on the writing pad.

http://www.acandyrose.com/04112000thomas-pg73-74.htm

It was determined to be her own blood. The smeared appearance is from when she was cleaned.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I would really like to know if he does or doesn't have autism. I feel like if he was a diagnosed, they would've mentioned that in the beginning because it was explain some of his mannerisms. His mannerisms were more than him just being shy. Something is different. He may have some sort of undiagnosed personality disorder rather than autism.

He did not show any signs of autism in his childhood interviews.

As for some form of mental illness, we have no way of knowing.

But it was very odd to watch a nearly 30 year old man look, sound, and act like a boy in his mid-teens.

 

[Tadpole12]

my friend watched some clips
and commented that adult BR looked like
he wanted to curl up n the fetal position on DP's couch,
BR was pulling on the
cuffs of his sleeves like an anxious child might do.

 

[otg]

Qmfr:



(I'm over here now, walked outside to "check the mail" lol, hoping I'd see him so I could tell him (er, what woould I tell him? :waitasec: Just hey I saw you on tv last night, I didn't know you worked the Ramsey case, how interesting, your book and work is well respected, will you please sign my book (on order)... :smile: )...I don't want to bug the guy and seem all crazy, ykwim....but boy would I sure like to pick his brain off the record! He seems to be a private person though so I don't think that will happen. )

:websleuther:

Eta: Should I knock and ask to borrow some sugar? JUST KIDDING!!

Man up, margarita25! Just do it. You're (like) a neighbor. He'd prolly appreciate just knowing you enjoyed the show. Who knows where it might go from there.

 

[Schuby]

It was determined to be her own blood. The smeared appearance is from when she was cleaned.

There was male DNA found mixed with her blood. It was stated in the John Mark Karr arrest warrant.

 

[chlban]

Unfortunately, there are too many examples of this to mention in one post. For starters, they obtained lawyers within hours (and possibly before) JBR's body was found. They did not speak with police without BPD going through their lawyers first and advised (threatened?) all their friends, family, etc. to act accordingly. They did a televised interview at the behest of their legal team before sitting down with police. They didn't interview with police until April 1997 after months of negotiations with their legal team that included stipulations such as reviewing all of the evidence and questions prior to the interview. These are but a few examples.

Constitutional rights are one thing, and yes, you can say that it was the Ramsey lawyers who did the stonewalling and not the Ramseys themselves. But money is another thing, and hiding behind a wall lawyers is not only suspicious, but it interfered with the BPD's ability to conduct their investigation as any other case would be have been investigated.

No one that I am aware of has ever argued that the Ramsey's did not have a constitutional right to do what they did. It just isn't what innocent parents do. Period. You want your child's killer caught? Tell the police, not Larry King.

 

[margarita25]

Meet his lawyer?

-Nin

(That would be like Mark Redwine...)

 

[otg]

Something that really bothers me is these neighbors and why they either won't speak or have changed their stories. Do you think they were paid off (seems to be illegal/obstruction of justice) or that they were told that they could not speak out pending a jury trial (which obviously is never going to happen). I just don't get it. And what is the "gag order" that the 911 operator refers to? If so, why is she finally talking now? It kind of takes away her credibility.

I know this is a little off the topic of the CBS show, but another thing I was wondering about was the sexual abuse at the time of the murder. I just don't remember hearing anyone bring this up, but when I was reading over the search warrants and it mentiond about how Dt. Arndt was present during the autopsy, "In the presence of Det. Arndt, Det. Tom Trujillo of the Boulder Police Department, used a black florescent light to view the body including the pubic area of the victim in an attempt to observe the possible presence of semen or seminal fluid. Det. Arndt stated that she observed florescent areas of the upper inner and outer left thigh, as well as the upper and inner right thigh. Det. Arndt stated that her observations of the result of the black florescent light observation is consistent with the presence of semen or seminal fluid." And of course we know she was wiped down so we will never know who the culprit was - thoughts?

If I could, can I also ask the contents of the "practice RNs" and where they were found in the house? Were they full practice notes? I had not heard about these before. I had heard of one practice note that read "Dear Mr. and Mrs. ".

I have not posted on this case forum and frankly am very intimidated by the knowledge you sleuths have and I am in wonderment that you can keep it all straight and organized in your minds. It boggles my mind.

Thank you

I'm still catching up, so I don't know if someone else has answered this or not. The smeared/wiped blood on her legs was identified as belonging to JonBenet.

Also, I'm with you on the "practice notes." I always understood there was only the one that began with "Mr. and Mrs I..." If they actually found others in the trash, I wonder if they were analyzed the same as the actual RN was. (And welcome to WS.)

 

[Tadpole12]

oh PL you're a dear
feel betta! .....

 

[chlban]

Why do people keep saying Burke has autism as Dr Phil who spent loads of time with him has stated there is absolutely nothing wrong with him apart from the fact he is nervous?

I don't know if he has autism or not, but I wouldn't believe Dr. Phil if he was swearing on a stack of bibles standing on his mother's grave.

Maybe that's why.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

I don't know if he has autism or not, but I wouldn't believe Dr. Phil if he was swearing on a stack of bibles standing on his mother's grave.

:yesss:

 

[Schuby]

No one that I am aware of has ever argued that the Ramsey's did not have a constitutional right to do what they did. It just isn't what innocent parents do. Period. You want your child's killer caught? Tell the police, not Larry King.

If your child is found dead in your own home and you don't immediately see that you have become the prime suspect in a murder investigation and should have a lawyer then you should have your head examined. Also, JR was financially successful. He almost certainly had a lawyer who represented him in personal business matters already. It's not so out in left field for someone who is used to consulting lawyers on other matters to pick up the phone and ask for legal advice.