The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[Nikolai_ff]

In fact writing "small faction" was stupid to write even if it was a real kidnapper. Terror group on US soil is another whole ball game to a little girl getting murdered. Had the police actually called the bluff, the Ramseys would have been toast.

 

[ukrberserker23]

Haven't been on here for a good while. Watched 2 different shows about this. One last night, and one the night before. After these shows, have come up with a new scenario. I believe BR went to kitchen for a snack. JBR joined him there. BR convinces his sister to go to basement with him. He took the flash light with them. He then starts a sex game with her by tying her up. When she screams, he bashes her with flashlight. After she stopped moving, he jabbed her with train track to see if she was alive. Then he left her in basement. JR later comes down to get a suitcase to pack for the trip. Discovers JBR is dead, and starts the staging process. PR must have helped because of her fibers in the garrotte. Then she went off to write the ransom note.

 

[buggiegirl]

In fact writing "small faction" was stupid to write even if it was a real kidnapper. Terror group on US soil is another whole ball game to a little girl getting murdered. Had the police actually called the bluff, the Ramseys would have been toast.

Also unless that group is kidnapping for political reasons to make a statement, do they really want or need to describe themselves as anyone?? Most kidnappers want to remain anonymous, get their ransom and be done with it (I assume!). The only reason to include who you are is to deflect from the family!

 

[Mumma2thr33]

After watching the CBS documentary today I wonder if any one might be able clear up some confusion that I have.

Did Dr.Spitz state (in the CBS documentary) that in his/ opinion (after reviewing evidence) JonBenet was *NOT* sexually abused prior to her death and that in his opinion JonBenet was *NOT* abused during her assault/death?

I feel as though I may have misheard Dr.Spitz, especially based on what I previously reviewed in JonBenet's autopsy report.

 

[ukrberserker23]

I do have a new question. Did BR ever give a blood or DNA sample to law enforcement? If he did, I don't remember reading about it on here.

 

[BBB167893]

After watching the CBS documentary today I wonder if any one might be able clear up some confusion that I have.

Did Dr.Spitz state (in the CBS documentary) that in his/ opinion (after reviewing evidence) JonBenet was *NOT* sexually abused prior to her death and that in his opinion JonBenet was *NOT* abused during her assault/death?

I feel as though I may have misheard Dr.Spitz, especially based on what I previously reviewed in JonBenet's autopsy report.

Dr. Spitz, to my knowledge, made no statement on prior sexual abuse either way. And as for during, he very strongly stated that it was a staged sexual "assault," not a real one, because there was hardly any damage.

 

[RL2]

Have they determined what time JB was killed? or apx time at least?

Her grave marker lists her date of death as 12/25.. I've often wondered about that. They must have known she was dead before MN

 

[SandyQLS]

I think that might have been the best thing for him. From everything I learned about the case from his history of violence against JBR to the smeared feces, it all points to an underlying pathology that qualified professionals could have helped with.

With that said, the interview tapes prove without a shadow of a doubt that BR was an intelligent child and capable of forethought and deceptive behavior even at a young age. The tapes show him smiling when he said his mother "went psycho." I don't have any reason to believe he was operating from a purely visceral standpoint. No, there is a lot more there than meets the eye.

I am very interested in BR's nonchalant detachment to his description of PR acting "psycho". IMO PR is one of those women who never has a hair out of place in public, but is a rage-aholic in private losing control often over minor things. JR is a successful businessman, likely a workaholic, and never home. PR ruled her roost, and BR's manner suggests PR being "psycho" or in a rage was not unusual in the home, regardless of JR's CNN interview statement about them being "gentle people". PR is an entirely different creature from her public persona when she is in the LE interview, certainly not a gentle church mom.

I disagree with the conclusion of the CBS show that BDI - I am more convinced than ever that PR did it in a "psycho" fit over the imperfection of bedwetting and/or eating pineapple with the long hours and stress of holiday activities plus the trip she still needed to pack for the whole family at the last minute. PR was living so vicariously through JBR and the beauty pageant activities, but that is a two-edged sword from a mother like that and JBR was overindulged but would also be the object of PR's feelings of failure and rage.

One other disappointment with the show - even though they replayed the CNN interview clips, none of them mention how phony PR is with "Hold your babies close" her face is crumpled but she cannot find tears, and her anger display statement to the imaginary killer is just as poor - PR is a very bad actress. The show participants seemed to find her sincere, but I see a neurotic and manipulative woman living in many lies and very skilled at putting on a phony face.

 

[RL2]

Hi guys!
I am pretty new to this case, having been aware of it for years, but never really digging too deep. I read the note years ago, did a small bit of reading, and that was it. My knowledge is limited.

There was something BR said during the Dr. Phil show that really bugged me, and to hear similar phrasing from JR on the CBS show last night stuck out like a sore thumb. I went back and found the bit from BR, and a couple more things jumped out... taken from Tadpole12's post # 78 on the Dr. Phil thread:

DP EP 3
@ 34
I think your dad had said he used
the flashlight that night to put you to bed
Then you snuck downstairs to play
BR: Ya I had some toy that I wanted to put together
I remember being downstairs after everybody
was kind of in bed and wanting to get this thing out
DP: Did you use the flashlight so you
wouldn't be seen?
BR: I don't remember -
I just remember
being downstairs, I remember this toy
**********************************************
DP: Did you hit your sister over
the head with a baseball bat or flash light?
BR: Absolutely not
DP: If someone in your house did,
do you think you
would have heard it?
BR: probably... ya (bites lip?)

The thing that bothered me initially was BR's distancing himself from the identity of the toy he snuck downstairs to assemble. 'Some toy', 'this thing', 'this toy'. I know that sounds a bit silly, as it has been so long, but for goodness sake, this was the night your sister was murdered, I'd think details would be etched into your mind forever. I would expect something like 'I got this new Lego set, and I couldn't wait to play with it'.

And then last night, JR says that he stayed up to help BR put together a plastic toy he had gotten for Christmas.

Again. A toy. Now a plastic toy, but still.

I found that very odd.

But THEN! Keeping JR's statement in mind.... how did it actually go? Did JR stay up to help him assemble, or did BR sneak down? With all the coaching they had to have had...why would BR say he snuck down now?

(I know it's likely he received more than one gift that required assembly)

What I am wondering is if a) there either was no toy requiring assembly, or it was the kind of toy that could have been used for nefarious purposes, has been disposed of, and thus has no identity, and b) if BR and JR are now trying to intentionally muddy already very murky waters.

Maybe someone else can help me here, but I think I remember JR calling it a "model" of some kind in an interview?? BR had a model he wanted to put together, so he helped him finish it and hurried him off to bed?

 

[just the facts pls]

I am very interested in BR's nonchalant detachment to his description of PR acting "psycho". IMO PR is one of those women who never has a hair out of place in public, but is a rage-aholic in private losing control often over minor things. JR is a successful businessman, likely a workaholic, and never home. PR ruled her roost, and BR's manner suggests PR being "psycho" or in a rage was not unusual in the home, regardless of JR's CNN interview statement about them being "gentle people". PR is an entirely different creature from her public persona when she is in the LE interview, certainly not a gentle church mom.

I disagree with the conclusion of the CBS show that BDI - I am more convinced than ever that PR did it in a "psycho" fit over the imperfection of bedwetting and/or eating pineapple with the long hours and stress of holiday activities plus the trip she still needed to pack for the whole family at the last minute. PR was living so vicariously through JBR and the beauty pageant activities, but that is a two-edged sword from a mother like that and JBR was overindulged but would also be the object of PR's feelings of failure and rage.

One other disappointment with the show - even though they replayed the CNN interview clips, none of them mention how phony PR is with "Hold your babies close" her face is crumpled but she cannot find tears, and her anger display statement to the imaginary killer is just as poor - PR is a very bad actress. The show participants seemed to find her sincere, but I see a neurotic and manipulative woman living in many lies and very skilled at putting on a phony face.

I don't see that at all. When a parent is an unpredictable raging type, children fear them. They don't smile when they talk about their parent if they are raging. BR obviously does not fear PR. He smile as though he enjoyed PR being upset.

 

[Mumma2thr33]

Thank you so much for your prompt reply and for clearing up my confusion! (It was difficult to pay full attention with my 5 month old in my arms).

 

[BBB167893]

Hey, it's nothing. Your little one deserves your attention. Just glad to help out.

 

[Tortoise]

Not disagreeing with you SandyQLS, I'm still either BDI or PDI. Do you think if it was Patsy, she hit JonBenet with the flashlight?

 

[SandyQLS]

Dr. Spitz, to my knowledge, made no statement on prior sexual abuse either way. And as for during, he very strongly stated that it was a staged sexual "assault," not a real one, because there was hardly any damage.

I agree. I think Dr. Spitz and Dr. Lee both believe that the bash to the head was the actuall fatal injury, and everything after that was staging which includes the garotte, the punctures, and the "sex assault".

 

[RL2]

I am very interested in BR's nonchalant detachment to his description of PR acting "psycho". IMO PR is one of those women who never has a hair out of place in public, but is a rage-aholic in private losing control often over minor things. JR is a successful businessman, likely a workaholic, and never home. PR ruled her roost, and BR's manner suggests PR being "psycho" or in a rage was not unusual in the home, regardless of JR's CNN interview statement about them being "gentle people". PR is an entirely different creature from her public persona when she is in the LE interview, certainly not a gentle church mom.

I disagree with the conclusion of the CBS show that BDI - I am more convinced than ever that PR did it in a "psycho" fit over the imperfection of bedwetting and/or eating pineapple with the long hours and stress of holiday activities plus the trip she still needed to pack for the whole family at the last minute. PR was living so vicariously through JBR and the beauty pageant activities, but that is a two-edged sword from a mother like that and JBR was overindulged but would also be the object of PR's feelings of failure and rage.

One other disappointment with the show - even though they replayed the CNN interview clips, none of them mention how phony PR is with "Hold your babies close" her face is crumpled but she cannot find tears, and her anger display statement to the imaginary killer is just as poor - PR is a very bad actress. The show participants seemed to find her sincere, but I see a neurotic and manipulative woman living in many lies and very skilled at putting on a phony face.

I agree! It doesn't seem like a far-fetched idea that PR lost it over...whatever and whacked her over the head. Don't forget, PR was about to be 40 in a couple of days... Ironically, she never lived to turn 50.


BR may have been a weird kid, but what if they protected him so closely bc they know what HE knows. Witnessing your mother strike your sister and finding out later what all occurred after would no doubt trouble him. I find it more convincing that PR did all of it and covered for herself. I really think she loved herself more than either of her children, a sociopath. I honestly do not see her staging all of this to just cover for BR.

I posted this theory earlier today, but maybe she led JR to believe that BR was involved.... or, maybe she just had A LOT to hold over JR's head to get him to continue to go along with the entire thing after the fact.

 

[sariebell]

Hello, all. I have been on this forum following this case since the beginning. I read all the books that came out in the 90s. I debated on this forum for hours. I was always a BDI believer. I didn't even want to watch these specials, because I assumed they would be the same ole same ole and I already know all the facts. The Discovery ID special played out that way and I found it boring. I was skipping (but recording) the CBS shows, but my husband expressed keen interest (for the first time ever.) I watched with him and last night I was impressed. I feel like the collection of experts and the work they did proved the BDI theory. And I found it ball$y to put it out there for the first time on tv!

I have been a BDI poster since long before seeing those chilling interviews with Burke. Wow. His behavior proved to me that he was good for it. Chilling.

 

[RL2]

I don't see that at all. When a parent is an unpredictable raging type, children fear them. They don't smile when they talk about their parent if they are raging. BR obviously does not fear PR. He smile as though he enjoyed PR being upset.

Maybe PR only raged at JBR..
Maybe BR did as he was told and stayed to himself, not the opinionated, "firecracker" JBR was..

Maybe he thought it WAS funny that PR was going "psycho" on JBR

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm definitely in the minority here, after watching the doco, there wasn't one thing that imo, pointed to BR as being guilty. The dissection of his interviews as a child were just ridiculous, imo, he appeared like a normal child whose family was in crisis. The only part I would pick out as suspect was his use of the word psycho to describe his mother's behaviour on that night. It gives me the impression, rightly or wrongly, that Patsy has had 'psycho' moments before. Maybe, when Jon-Benet was being defiant or non-compliant, Patsy would go into a rage. I gathered that Pasty was a perfectionist, controlling with neurotic tendencies.

I also found it disturbing that the show producers were prepared to traumatize a child for life to reenact a brutal murder of a child, to condemn another child, how ironic?

I'm in the Patsy did it camp and JR helped to cover.

 

[sweetcaro]

I thought this series was great, and what they stated happened is nearly identical to what i believe happened. I do believe all 3 were involved. I feel so sad for JB, her parents totally took away any dignity from her passing, she deserved so much more. I'm a parent of two also, I can understand their panic and confusion. But never will I understand their decision to undertake such a coverup to protect a child who was and is obviously troubled. How they have gone on living full lives I have no idea.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[Jolynna]

I think a Ramsey did it. No kidnapper would write a long letter complete with rough drafts in Patsy's distinctive handwriting. An intruder couldn't have crawled through the window without disturbing the dust, debris and cobweb. John and Patsy, in my opinion, were indicted by a Grand Jury with cause.

But I'm not convinced Burke did it.

There are other explanations for Burkes inappriate smiling, laughing and nervousness. Burke's and JonBenet's bed wetting and the feces smearing makes me wonder what the heck was going on in that house. PTSD victims are often fearful and don't want to leave their homes. Which explains why Burke does what he does for a living. Even the stress of a visit from a trusted family member can create almost unbearable anxiety. Burke was on Dr. Phil. No amount of prepping could get me through a face-to-face with Dr. Phil without shaking and throwing up I have such severe stage fright.

So while maybe Burke did what CBS thinks he did (last night I was sure that is what happened), I remember Steve Thomas made a good case against Patsy. If Steve Thomas was right, Burke might have grown up being told what he knew (or suspected) wasn't reality. Combine a mom who was capable of flying off the handle enough to do the ultimate with an absent and authoritarian dad and imagine the insecurity? Or if Burke is responsible imagine the stress of having to face people and to act as if you aren't the monster deep down you think you are?

I'm not sure about which member of the Ramsey family did it and which ones covered up. I go back and forth between accidental and aggression that went too far too.


What the CBS show validated was my certainty that Patsy wrote the note and that a Ramsey, not an intruder, killed JonBenet.