The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 17th June - Trial Day 5 - Week 2

[they'll get you]

I want to hear more about these different parenting styles. I want the jury to hear how he apparently belted his girls as per Jocelyn Frosts statement. Show what a nasty, controlling piece of work he is.

When there is angry style parenting from one side the other parent compensates with extra love and softer nurturing.
Allison and the girls must have had many lonely nights while GeraldRed was working back.
No wonder the business was failing. He should have been working rather than taking off at 2.30 for a sexual adventure when Allison left to pick up the girls.

 

[Saxons]

If he was in their ensuite, then they were probably flushed IMO.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[AAAA]

Constable Ash agreed he found nothing, no evidence of a struggle and no damage to the house.

“I looked in the sink, the waste paper basket, the sink hole and the towels in the basket and found no trace of blood,” he said.

He agreed he saw no evidence of violence.



If he had innocently cut himself shaving wouldn't there be tissues or something with blood on them in the bin?

Thanks Cattail, I agree, although if my husband cuts himself in any way, shape or form, he leaves tissues, Baird wrappings, salon and the like all over the place! I guess Gerard must be extremely tidy. (Doubt it)

 

[marlywings]

Firstly, a great job on the tweets WSer's. Thank-you. Just read the entire thread - I'll try catching up earlier tomorrow

Just a thought about the scratch marks..

If he had grabbed ABC from behind and she was facing forward - she may have thrown her arms backwards over her shoulders to get at his face.
Just try it - throw your hands over your shoulder and see the position of your thumbs.
I am sure the arced scratch is a thumb nail - and the others would be fingers.
Now, in saying that - there looks to be some pressure applied to get the graze happening on the scratches - and I think maybe that could have come from pressure if he had rolled her on the ground in a lock - possibly with legs around the body and his face to the ground with her hand under it.

And I ask - who has shaving scratches and still has a 5 o'clock shadow. And what was he shaving with - the lid off a tin can?

.

From memory the photos of the scratches were taken either that afternoon or on following Sunday.

This is from committal hearing back in March 12, 2013

Police also couldn't miss the scratch marks and on April 22 - two days after he reported his wife missing - Baden-Clay was examined by medical forensic officer Dr Leslie Griffiths.

Dr Griffiths found two deep scratches on the 42-year-old's face, several lighter scratches on his neck, scratch marks near his shoulder and a large area of scratches and bruising on his upper chest area.

He said the scratches and bruising on Baden-Clay's upper chest would most likely have been from "pressure" or "rubbing".

A yellowing mark on another part of his chest was a bruise that was at least 18 hours old, he told the court.

Dr Griffiths said he believed the scratches on Baden-Clay's face and neck were made by someone's fingernails based on their shape and other forensic indicators

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-of-wife-allison/story-e6freoof-1226595359813

 

[marlywings]

Photos of the marks on his chest...

The court released pictures of scratches on Baden-Clay's face, neck and upper torso. (bail hearing)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-20/baden-clay-committal-expected-to-wrap-up-today/4583648

 

[Cattail]

Gerard seems overly sure she went for a walk. How does he know Allison didn't have a friend pick her up for a late night coffee? How does he know she didn't answer the door and was abducted? If it were me I think I'd say I woke up and she wasn't here. She might have gone for a walk but I really don't know because I never saw her after I went to bed.

Is this because he was saying her walking clothes were missing?

 

[they'll get you]

Oh no - don't get me wrong Sprats - I do believe it was her nails. I just mean you'd really have to scratch and drag hard to make those kinds of wounds - not the sort of thing you could do in a quick swipe at someone. Would be an act of sheer desperation requiring a lot of effort, and with them not moving away

I think they are nails. Look at the one that that's split in two. That will happen with pressure, it's puckered the skin and then dug in again. I think it was done with her left hand because the little mark near IT'S mouth looks like the leverage of the thumb nail.
I think she was down and kicked at his chest with joggers.
It doesn't matter if Allison was left handed.

 

[AAAA]

Photos of the marks on his chest...

The court released pictures of scratches on Baden-Clay's face, neck and upper torso. (bail hearing)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-20/baden-clay-committal-expected-to-wrap-up-today/4583648

Oh, Marly... Did you really have to show me that pasty white chest again just before I go to bed? Looks like I'm dreaming websleuths again tonight.

 

[truthseeker2011]

I am looking forward to the roundabout too! Weren't the police timing vehicle driving times, closing the round about at night and seeking witnesses of vehicles?
Is it a possible scenario that A & G have argued outside, struggled (maybe fallen hence the plant matter) and she has made a dash for the Captiva to get away from him and taken off. Gerard follows in hot pursuit in the the Prado(squealing wheels, loud thumps of car doors being slammed). If I remember a witness saw 2 cars following each other closely out near the bridge.
Another struggle at the bridge (scratches etc) and she strikes her face against the perhaps open tailgate of the Captiva? Explains the chipped tooth and perhaps a blood nose.. They bleed copiously. But his blow has killed her.
Now he has more problems on his hands. He has to dispose of the body but in addition he has two cars out at the bridge. He needs someone else to drive one of them back.
Enter NBC. After a call from G, he drives to the shopping center at the rounabout, leaves his own car there, and GBC picks him up in his Prado. Back out to the bridge, make sure the body is hidden, and they drive the two cars back to the Brookfield house. Leave the Captiva, back to the shopping center carpark in the Prado and pick up GBCs car and back to Brookfield to start inventing the night to explain the events to the police.
Too far fetched?

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That theory ticks all the boxes for me. Explains the phone being on and off the charger too.

 

[Saxons]

Those marks on his chest look like grazes to me. Not rub or scratches.

Has he slipped while scrambling up the creek bank after disposing of the body and grazed his chest on a rock or gravel? They look similar to that type of injury. Just my thoughts.

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[truthseeker2011]

If he was in their ensuite, then they were probably flushed IMO.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I agree

 

[possumheart]

Those marks on his chest look like grazes to me. Not rub or scratches.

Has he slipped while scrambling up the creek bank after disposing of the body and grazed his chest on a rock or gravel? They look similar to that type of injury. Just my thoughts.

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Or friction perhaps

 

[they'll get you]

Thank you all x-times for your great posting and your ongoing information to the trial!!!


:loveyou:

Great to see you interested all the way from beautiful Germany.

We Aussies aren't all lying murderous spouses. Some are proud blue blooded convicts.

 

[truthseeker2011]

And I ask - who has shaving scratches and still has a 5 o'clock shadow. And what was he shaving with - the lid off a tin can?

.

:floorlaugh:

 

[AAAA]

That theory ticks all the boxes for me. Explains the phone being on and off the charger too.

Although, why would she head to the bridge? And why, if she was already at the bridge and killed, maybe with blood on the tailgate, was there blood on the inside wheel arch of the Captiva?

 

[truthseeker2011]

The marks on the chest look like scratches, but through clothing, to me. That poor girl fought hard.

And the $20 in her account is heartbreaking. Bet Gered had more cash. He strikes me as a 'there's your housekeeping - that's all you're getting' type.

 

[kiwijayne]

Oh, Marly... Did you really have to show me that pasty white chest again just before I go to bed? Looks like I'm dreaming websleuths again tonight.

It looks like he has tried to scrub too hard to remove something.

 

[Cattail]

Gerard is so cool and collect in the phone transcript. He doesn;t sound tired, like a man who has been up all night, he doesn't agitated or frightened, I don't quite know what to make of that!

I had to call 000 once when my son was injured. I went into autopilot mode. They had to understand me as I was the only adult around. I was panicking inside and in control in the outside. It's not necessarily damning that he sounded calm in the call IMHO

 

[Crime and punishment]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Ms McHugh says it's fair to say her relationship with Gerard was "up and down all the time". #badenclay

Titter titter- Gerhard was up and down all the time.....:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::lol::Banana4: did she really say that? Oh my...

 

[AAAA]

It looks like he has tried to scrub too hard to remove something.

No, to me I think that the marks look more like an internal bruise coming out, no scabs or fresh wounds scrubbing would make.