The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 18th June - Trial Day 6, Week 2

[Forthegirls]

snap out of it

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Freya1977]

Thanks Marly


Yes. Constable Keiron Ash's statement containing the reply given by Olivia Walton, i.e., ' Gerard told the girls shortly after 6 am that Mummy had gone for a walk and had probably fallen down a hole and would not be back'


is here on Websleuths at the link provided above by Marlywings

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



just scroll down to find it under 'Keiron Ash'

I think you may have misunderstood what a few of us were saying about "not believing" this statement. I believe OW said that to Ash, but i believe she was being sarcastic, and that comment was never actually said to the girls at all.

Is that what you're referring to?

 

[laserdisc10]

Thank you Laserdisc10 that time of dropping the children off at school is very early especially the youngest one?

It is. Early. They would have been dumped at the school and Aunty Olivia roared off back to the house

It's been a long time since my children went to primary school, but from memory, they didn't go into class in the mornings until 9 - 9.30 ?

So those poor little girls of Allison's were told, 'shortly after 6 am' by their father that mum had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back

Dad was busy shaving and the rest. Phone calls back and forth. Girls would have had their baths the night before, no doubt. Breakfast -- sitting there with big eyes, looking at each other silently, wondering what was going on and why Dad wasn't going to help Mum out of the hole

NBC was over there and Aunty Olivia because Constable Ash noted that as he and Hammond drove up the driveway to the house, NBC and OBW cars were already there. Ash also noted in his statement that NBC came out of the house. Then OBW steering the girls down the steps to the car. GBC was already fully dressed. Gerard immediately asked Constables Ash and Hammond to move their cars so OBW could take the girls to school. And that was within minutes of Constables Ash and Hammond arriving at 8 a.m. as shown in the official Witness Statement

For close to an hour, Allison's girls would have had to find something to do in the playground or under the school before classes started. That's a long time for little kids worried about their mum

Was it necessary to remove the girls from the house so early in the morning?

Clearly Gerard and OBW believed so

Gerard could easily have spoken with police outside the house and away from the girls' hearing. Indeed he did so, taking police aside to talk about things he claimed he didn't want others to overhear

The girls could have stayed in their rooms oblivious of adult discussions with police outside

But those girls were considered a potential spoke in the wheel of the BC narrative to police until they'd been thoroughly 'debriefed' at a later time, imo

 

[Tangled_Web]

So according to OW (and the police statement) he told this to the girls [fallen in a hole, not coming back etc] shortly after 6am - possibly before they were even out of bed? His first text to Allison at 6:20am said that none of the girls were up yet. His second text at 6:41 indicated two of the girls were now up.

 

[Doidy]

You know, I just don't get it. It is such a bone-headed thing to do, to murder one's spouse for the insurance money. One would have to commit "the perfect murder", so to speak, in order to get away from it. GBC, with all his umming and ahhing, really doesn't sound like he has thought his story through terribly well. This is why I keep wondering about an accidental escalation of a domestic incident. The sheer stupidity of it all - could anyone really be that stupid? And seemingly no consideration to leaving his daughters without a mother?

I'm showing some naïveté here I'm sure. It's so senseless. Wasteful. Cruel. Pardon me for musing.

I think he fantasized about how great/easy it would make things if she died and his life was simpler and richer (insurance money), the financial and toni and allison pressures on him were escalating in the preceding few weeks with no solution in sight and then on the Thursday a domestic escalated,in that sense it was an somewhat/slightly (but not methodically) premeditated murder
This explains the signs of premeditation and strong motives as well as the appearances of no clearly and consistently thought through 'story'

 

[LadyBird1]

It is. Early. They would have been dumped at the school and Aunty Olivia roared off back to the house

It's been a long time since my children went to primary school, but from memory, they didn't go into class in the mornings until 9 - 9.30 ?

So those poor little girls of Allison's were told, 'shortly after 6 am' by their father that mum had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back

Dad was busy shaving and the rest. Phone calls back and forth. Girls would have had their baths the night before, no doubt. Breakfast -- sitting there with big eyes, looking at each other silently, wondering what was going on and why Dad wasn't going to help Mum out of the hole

NBC was over there and Aunty Olivia because Constable Ash noted that as he and Hammond drove up the driveway to the house, NBC and OBW cars were already there. Ash also noted in his statement that NBC came out of the house. Then OBW steering the girls down the steps to the car. GBC was already fully dressed. Gerard immediately asked Constables Ash and Hammond to move their cars so OBW could take the girls to school. And that was within minutes of Constables Ash and Hammond arriving at 8 a.m. as shown in the official Witness Statement

For close to an hour, Allison's girls would have had to find something to do in the playground or under the school before classes started. That's a long time for little kids worried about their mum

Was it necessary to remove the girls from the house so early in the morning?

Clearly Gerard and OBW believed so

Gerard could easily have spoken with police outside the house and away from the girls' hearing. Indeed he did so, taking police aside to talk about things he claimed he didn't want others to overhear

The girls could have stayed in their rooms oblivious of adult discussions with police outside

But those girls were considered a potential spoke in the wheel of the BC narrative to police until they'd been thoroughly 'debriefed' at a later time, imo

And did they even have any breakfast at all, or prepared lunch (at all) that day?

 

[Snails]

It is. Early. They would have been dumped at the school and Aunty Olivia roared off back to the house



It's been a long time since my children went to primary school, but from memory, they didn't go into class in the mornings until 9 - 9.30 ?



So those poor little girls of Allison's were told, 'shortly after 6 am' by their father that mum had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back



Dad was busy shaving and the rest. Phone calls back and forth. Girls would have had their baths the night before, no doubt. Breakfast -- sitting there with big eyes, looking at each other silently, wondering what was going on and why Dad wasn't going to help Mum out of the hole



NBC was over there and Aunty Olivia because Constable Ash noted that as he and Hammond drove up the driveway to the house, NBC and OBW cars were already there. Ash also noted in his statement that NBC came out of the house. Then OBW steering the girls down the steps to the car. GBC was already fully dressed. Gerard immediately asked Constables Ash and Hammond to move their cars so OBW could take the girls to school. And that was within minutes of Constables Ash and Hammond arriving at 8 a.m. as shown in the official Witness Statement



For close to an hour, Allison's girls would have had to find something to do in the playground or under the school before classes started. That's a long time for little kids worried about their mum



Was it necessary to remove the girls from the house so early in the morning?



Clearly Gerard and OBW believed so



Gerard could easily have spoken with police outside the house and away from the girls' hearing. Indeed he did so, taking police aside to talk about things he claimed he didn't want others to overhear



The girls could have stayed in their rooms oblivious of adult discussions with police outside



But those girls were considered a potential spoke in the wheel of the BC narrative to police until they'd been thoroughly 'debriefed' at a later time, imo

I completely agree that the girls had to be whisked away before a "debrief". If I was in that situation and my partner was missing I would want the children nearby for their own (and my) comfort. Imagine sending them off to school after they had been told that their mother had "has probably fallen down a hole and won't be coming home." Really? What the? I just don't get it!

 

[louisepiglet]

Agree, I reckon he rang the 13 police number first so he could ring it in as 'I'm a concerned loving attentive hubby being overly cautious'. Thank god it rang out and he was too impatient and rang it in as a 000 emergency. Imagine that lifted the stakes, requiring a more ramped up police response

A friend received a threatening phone call and rang the local police station. They didn't arrive until the next morning. The police advised her to always ring 000 if she is scared because they HAVE to attend immediately. GBC was probably unaware of this.

 

[Makara]

Ok, I posted Constable Ash's statement which states Olivia Walton's claim to police that morning that Gerard had told the girls shortly after 6 am that mummy had fallen down a hole and would not be back

and I posted the url for that PDF Qld Police Witness Statement -- which just happened to be on another site

<modsnip>


So maybe someone here can post that same document here if Websleuths have it please?


Does Websleuths have it?


Because AT NO TIME did either Constable Ash or I claim Olivia Walton claimed to have been at the house prior to 6 am

However -- when asked what the girls were told that morning by Constable Ash, the Qld Police Witness Statement states very clearly and without equivocation that Olivia Walton replied by stating to Ash that 'shortly after 6 am Gerard told the girls mummy had gone for a walk and had probably fallen down a hole and would not be back

That's contained in the PDF. Anyone can read it. It doesn't belong to any online site. It's a Qld Police statement. And there is no doubt at all that is the reply given to police by Olivia Walton

BBM.

laserdisc10, both myself and a few other WS members purchased all of those documents and were very kindly given permission by Websleuth's Admin to upload them here. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202113"]Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


It's my understanding that they were subsequently uploaded to other sites.

 

[Thinking]

Con Simmons: um her phone, Allisons phones been triangulated by us.And its just about ,
out the back here somewhere?

GBC: Huh? :banghead:


Senior Constable Simmon's interview with Mr Baden-Clay that morning.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-6-week-2-20140618-3ackc.html#ixzz34yaWIQow

So it was shown to be out the back of the property by triangulation too, I didn't realise it was so specific? Such a shame they didn't find the phone. Perhaps it was buried, or in the septic/drain as previously suggested? I'm not sure that anyone would have had time to retrieve it before the police search - perhaps GBC was praying the battery would run down ASAP?

 

[sosocurious]

Do you think there will be a cheesemaker on the stand poss? They seem to play such a recurring part in all this (owning house being "renovated" when hand was cut, owning home needing to be "vacuumed", owning car that was in an "accident", provided supporting affidavit for GBC at bail hearing, what else.....?)

Search warrant executed on Rob Cheeseman seized 4 compact disks and computer tower.
Kellie Thompson statement.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think whatever happened had to have been outside the house - it wasn't inside as there was no trace of blood, and if he had known how to clean the house that well he would have had a go at least at the car.

Yes - I'd really like to see those photos of the back patio from today - are they up online anywhere? The plants with the most leaves in her hair all grew around there. I wonder if they were disturbed (from a fight - or someone pushed into them).

And I find the ferns of interest - since they only grow a foot or 2 in height - so she must have been on the ground at some point whether alive or not at the time.

And has anyone seen the full plant report anywhere? there's only one page up here on websleuths, but it says it's one of 32 pages

 

[laserdisc10]

I think you may have misunderstood what a few of us were saying about "not believing" this statement. I believe OW said that to Ash, but i believe she was being sarcastic, and that comment was never actually said to the girls at all.

Is that what you're referring to?

In a way. First, I responded to another post which said they didn't believe Olivia had been at the house at 6 am. that morning

I replied that Constable Ash's statement did not say Olivia had been at the house at 6 am. Ash's statement claimed OBW said that 'shortly after 6 am. that morning, Gerard had told the girls - walk, hole, not coming back



Later, I responded that I was not sure OBW was being facetious when she made that remark to Constable Ash. Certainly she made that remark (walk, hole, not coming back) as noted by Ash

Some believed OBW made that remark as a show of hostility to police. I'm not sure that was the case. Silly time to show hostility. And by making the remark she is quoted as making (walk, hole, not coming back) she was dicing with Fate. And would she dice with Fate when it was GBC's fate she was playing with? If she'd wanted to portray Gerard as a normal, concerned father (which is how HE was playing it), surely she would have told Ash that Gerard had told the girls mum was a bit late but everything was fine. Instead she made the 'walk, hole, not coming back' response. To my mind, if she'd been hostile towards police (who after all had arrived as summoned by GBC) I think she might have pushed past with the 'Not now, can't you see we have an emergency here' or something similar. But to give the 'walk, hole, not coming back' response says to me she was simply repeating what the girls (or GBC) had told her

 

[louisepiglet]

He put his phone back on the charger at 1.15am friday 20th and took it off again at 6.15am

So he did not go to sleep while Allison was watching the Footy Show.

 

[LadyBird1]

GO THE BLACKS!

I'm feeling depressed
:floorlaugh:

Oh boy! Am I slow or what? ..... Blacks .......
PS Am not depressed. Wearing dark night attire and all, (knowing footy or whatever is on tonight)

 

[spratsmum]

So it was shown to be out the back of the property by triangulation too, I didn't realise it was so specific? Such a shame they didn't find the phone. Perhaps it was buried, or in the septic/drain as previously suggested? I'm not sure that anyone would have had time to retrieve it before the police search - perhaps GBC was praying the battery would run down ASAP?

I wonder what that phone could tell us?

.

 

[Thinking]

Allison's phone's last call was to Livvie. Was GBC using the phone ?....just askin'

:dunno:

Well OW did say on Monday in her testimony, that Allison was speaking very quietly in that phone call, so as not to wake the girls. They were discussing sleepover plans for the following night (allegedly). If Allison was so conscious of the girls in a phone call, it does make me wonder if she did insist on taking the later argument outside with GBC , which might explain the girls hearing nothing and the neighbours across the road hearing something.

 

[Oddsocks]

Yes I agree - an escalation that was unplanned, and then he thought he could get the insurance money out of it ...

Actually I've just been reading the bail application document and G contacted 1 insurer on April 12th, and his financial advisor contacted another on 17th of April, both phone calls about Allison's life insurance policies. It's all starting to look premeditated to me now.

 

[louisepiglet]

Seemed like there was such a rush to get the children away and off to school - before the police could speak to them.

Strange the police let anyone leave

I can't imagine sending my children to school if my husband was missing. I would want them with me to look after them and try to reassure them and, if the worst happened, to comfort them. Those poor girls were sent to school not knowing where the Mum was. How frightening for them. I'm not surprised the principal rang GBC. What were the teachers supposed to tell the girls. Why weren't the children sent to GBCs mother if they wanted them out of the house. Why didn't Olivia suggest the girls go to her mother's with their cousins.

 

[FigTree]

BBM

Text copied from GBC's charge sheet...

Details of Charge

Charge 1 of 2

Criminal Code(CC)-(CC) 302&305 Murder

That on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at BRISBANE in the State of Queensland one GERARD ROBERT BADEN-CLAY murdered ALLISON JUNE BADEN-CLAY

Address of offence: 593 BROOKFIELD RD, BROOKFIELD, QLD 4069
---------------------------------------

Charge 2 of 2

Criminal Code (CC) -)CC)236(b) Misconduct with corpse by interfering

That on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at BRISBANE in the State of Queensland one GERARD BADEN-CLY IMPROPERLY INTERFERED WITH A DEAD HUMAN BODY

Address of offence: CREEK - KHOLO CREEK, MOUNT CROSBY,QLD 4306

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*

Address of offence: CREEK - KHOLO CREEK, MOUNT CROSBY,QLD 4306
Is there a map with the location of where ABC was found?
Or coordinates and I can look up a map?
TIA :seeya: