The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 18th June - Trial Day 6, Week 2

[Zim]

Well OW did say on Monday in her testimony, that Allison was speaking very quietly in that phone call, so as not to wake the girls. They were discussing sleepover plans for the following night (allegedly). If Allison was so conscious of the girls in a phone call, it does make me wonder if she did insist on taking the later argument outside with GBC , which might explain the girls hearing nothing and the neighbours across the road hearing something.

We only have Livvie's word on this because we do not have Allison's phone ! ! !
Livvie would never tell a 'furfy' (Best Oz word !) would she ?....just sayin'

:tantrum:

 

[they'll get you]

No worries about the location - I think I found it on a map - where the Brisbane River, Little Ugly River and Kholo Creek intersect, there is a road bridge there on Mt Crosby Road.
Cheers and thanks for the help Freya and Marlywings
.

FigTree I noticed the two houses close to the bridge but along the river is like a service road maybe for the pipes that follow the river.

If someone knows about that track then they wouldn't have to risk being seen on the busy road.

 

[Consider]

Ah Consider, you're not frustrating anyone. Questions are good and this is such a complex case interwoven with lies and deceit, it is difficult to get your head around it all at times. So please don't go back to your lurking perch.

From the link below, which was published just after Allison's body was found.



BBM.

http://www.qt.com.au/news/happy-and-successful-a-portrait-of-allison/1367927/

Much relieved. Thank you Makara.

So IMO to catch up : we're waiting on forensic report to determine the how with additional police reports combining to determine the when, yes?

Meanwhile we assume the why/motive = the usual : $$$, freedom/single scene sex and (not so thought through) sole care of 3 young girls who will forever long for their mum and wonder about other relatives for the rest of their lives perhaps...

Whilst the whom and whomever are pretty much assumed to be a given thus far.

Safe to surmise?

 

[Freya1977]

Wondered if anyone would pick-up on that boo boo that I couldn't be bothered editing


so --- I believe she said it straight faced as an accurate rendition of what Gerard had told the girls

Others don't

Doesn't matter either way. Just conversation

Ah ok, I thought I was perhaps speaking in riddles

You're right, it's all just conversation and speculation.....we'll never know half of what really happened, I don't think!

 

[Humdinger]

Ah ok, I thought I was perhaps speaking in riddles

You're right, it's all just conversation and speculation.....we'll never know half of what really happened, I don't think!

I honestly doubt GBC even remembers what really happened! I bet he's deluded himself into believing all of his untruths and they've become truths to him!

 

[Freya1977]

If Alison was smothered in bed there would be a fairly immediate bodily response from the various orifices so the sheets would be soiled. Sorry for the ick factor but several sites I googled said upon death, the body releases its sphincters. Dr Watson will be a good respondent to set me straight..... gross....again sorry

Not always, but yes peeing yourself is common with strangulation. Often seen in hanging victims. Pooping not so much. Ick I know. But no, not everyone "loses control" at the time of death, even in violent attacks, so let's hope she was spared that indignity....

 

[louisepiglet]

Ah ok, I thought I was perhaps speaking in riddles

You're right, it's all just conversation and speculation.....we'll never know half of what really happened, I don't think!

My brother was a NSW Police Officer.He always carried his notebook and wrote down what was said word for word. When they have to go to court they use their notes to give evidence of actual conversations. It would be very bad for a court case if they didn't give exact words. Im sure what the officer wrote down is exactly what Olivia said. And i'm sure he would have noted if she was being smart.

 

[Zim]

Something woke a daughter because she got up for a drink water. Maybe she used that excuse just to see if mummy was OK.

If I remember correctly she saw Mummy on the couch and Dad rushed upstairs in his PJs with his SHOES on ! .....(doing the ironing...? !)
Do you think Mummy was already deceased ?
God I hope not !

 

[MadDoc]

Another thing I remembered from today, we were shown a photo of the empty zoloft packet found on the car, it was dated 3/3/2014. Not sure how many tablets there are in a packet as to it being empty on the 20th when it was found. I didnt know this but the packet was found sitting on the spare tyre outside of the car.

Zoloft comes in packets of 30 tablets.

Most prescribed medication comes in packets of 1 month's supply at a time (28 or 30, depending if the manufacturer is trying to save money).

If a doctor is worried that someone may be severely depressed and suicidal, he/she may not let them access a whole month's worth at a time. The pharmacist might be asked to dispense weekly, or the medication may be left in the custody of a responsible family member who gives out each dose individually and makes sure it is taken properly and not stockpiled.

If Allison was being given whole packs of 30 Zoloft at a time without anyone keeping an eye on her like this, it means her doctor(s) must have had no reason to believe that she was at risk of suicide.

 

[Freya1977]

My brother was a NSW Police Officer.He always carried his notebook and wrote down what was said word for word. When they have to go to court they use their notes to give evidence of actual conversations. It would be very bad for a court case if they didn't give exact words. Im sure what the officer wrote down is exactly what Olivia said. And i'm sure he would have noted if she was being smart.

Like I said.......nobody doubts the report, she obviously said it. Don't worry guys, I'm not doubting their accuracy in reporting the statements. I think you're misinterpreting me so let's just forget it....All good

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[Champagne4lulu]

I think I am going to have to chat to my hairdresser, I must be getting value for my money. Lol

I'm in and out in less than two hours. Full colour, 1/2 head of foils, tone, cut, blow dry. My hair is already light though so doesn't take long! I'd lose my mind if I had to sit there for much longer!

 

[BJsleuth]

Zoloft comes in packets of 30 tablets.

Most prescribed medication comes in packets of 1 month's supply at a time (28 or 30, depending if the manufacturer is trying to save money).

If a doctor is worried that someone may be severely depressed and suicidal, he/she may not let them access a whole month's worth at a time. The pharmacist might be asked to dispense weekly, or the medication may be left in the custody of a responsible family member who gives out each dose individually and makes sure it is taken properly and not stockpiled.

If Allison was being given whole packs of 30 Zoloft at a time without anyone keeping an eye on her like this, it means her doctor(s) must have had no reason to believe that she was at risk of suicide.

Some pharmacies have a policy to not fill repeats sooner than 21 days after the last one was dispensed but I don't know how long they've been doing that nor if it's government controlled.

 

[BigT]

It occurs to me that prosecution has not offered a cause of death, so a question may remain, was Allison dead before she was under the bridge?

It seems very unlikely that a person considering suicide would walk 14k into a remote area, to jump from a not so high bridge, and into the mud. If you were to commit suicide it would be about who will find you and how, etc. Normally it would be jump from the story or the gateway....in front of the train, something with some visibility. Simply put no one ever commits suicide and disposes of their own body.

I am still hopeful they have the means to put GBC ( or at least his phone) on the bridge that night.

 

[Oddsocks]

I remember not long after she disappeared a friend of mine whose kid played with one of Allison's, went to E and NBCs house. she told me they were talking about her falling down and not being able to get back home, in front of the kids. she said at the time it was a really odd thing to say, she didn't go back after that. This was before they found her.

Some people

 

[Aberline_1979]

If I remember correctly she saw Mummy on the couch and Dad rushed upstairs in his PJs with his SHOES on ! .....(doing the ironing...? !)
Do you think Mummy was already deceased ?
God I hope not !

Doe anybody have a longer section of the article re: this? I remember reading this but I was kinda tired at the time and skimming through it all fairly quickly. I didn't think - Allison on couch - GBC rushing upstairs wearing pyjamas and SHOES - maybe she WAS already dead or unconscious! :-(

 

[Freya1977]

It occurs to me that prosecution has not offered a cause of death, so a question may remain, was Allison dead before she was under the bridge?

It seems very unlikely that a person considering suicide would walk 14k into a remote area, to jump from a not so high bridge, and into the mud. If you were to commit suicide it would be about who will find you and how, etc. Normally it would be jump from the story or the gateway....in front of the train, something with some visibility. Simply put no one ever commits suicide and disposes of their own body.

I am still hopeful they have the means to put GBC ( or at least his phone) on the bridge that night.

I dont agree......I've known several people who've suicided and "gone bush" to do it. Another friend tried several times and told me he'd purposefully gone to a remote place to avoid being "saved".

Personally, having been suicidal myself....I was more concerned about NOT making a spectacle of myself. I just wanted to hide away and escape the pain. I think people choose story/gateway/train because they are effective...

 

[marlywings]

It occurs to me that prosecution has not offered a cause of death, so a question may remain, was Allison dead before she was under the bridge?

It seems very unlikely that a person considering suicide would walk 14k into a remote area, to jump from a not so high bridge, and into the mud. If you were to commit suicide it would be about who will find you and how, etc. Normally it would be jump from the story or the gateway....in front of the train, something with some visibility. Simply put no one ever commits suicide and disposes of their own body.

I am still hopeful they have the means to put GBC ( or at least his phone) on the bridge that night.

According to all reports & GBC's charge sheet, police state Allison was murdered at home....

Text copied from GBC's charge sheet...

Details of Charge

Charge 1 of 2

Criminal Code(CC)-(CC) 302&305 Murder

That on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at BRISBANE in the State of Queensland one GERARD ROBERT BADEN-CLAY murdered ALLISON JUNE BADEN-CLAY

Address of offence: 593 BROOKFIELD RD, BROOKFIELD, QLD 4069
---------------------------------------

Charge 2 of 2

Criminal Code (CC) -)CC)236(b) Misconduct with corpse by interfering

That on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at BRISBANE in the State of Queensland one GERARD BADEN-CLY IMPROPERLY INTERFERED WITH A DEAD HUMAN BODY

Address of offence: CREEK - KHOLO CREEK, MOUNT CROSBY,QLD 4306

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048041&postcount=3"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]

 

[Zim]

Doe anybody have a longer section of the article re: this? I remember reading this but I was kinda tired at the time and skimming through it all fairly quickly. I didn't think - Allison on couch - GBC rushing upstairs wearing pyjamas and SHOES - maybe she WAS already dead or unconscious! :-(

Aberline, this what I have found so far....I will try and find a news link for you...you will have to scroll down a bit...(drsleuth 06-11-2014, 03:42 PM)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246424&page=12

Hey Mods....am I allowed to do that ?

 

[Neuromancer]

Just looking thru the first police interview at the house
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30814&d=1363404503
(text loosely abbreviated by me)

Police: what does she normally wear walking/jogging?
BC: one of two outfits - black or grey
Police: Which one's missing?
BC: the grey one

and then
Police: singlet top or a shirt?
BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um [INDISTINCT] she sometimes wears a sloppy joe or something over the top of that. Um it's also grey" (quoted exactly)

Ok now for starters - he really had time to search her wardrobe/dirty laundry to see what was missing? while driving around, speed shaving, making lunches and being constantly on the phone?
(Interview commenced at 08:18 am)

And even if you did have time - I couldn't work out what my partner was wearing by going thru his wardrobe if I had an hour or more - I wouldn't have a clue - who would?

and then he even knows she has a singlet not a shirt on - again who would know? Most ppl would have lots of singlets/t-shirts and probably just grab the closest one that's clean, depending on the weather or some minor whim, no?

AND this line - BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um...
It sounds like he nearly said "she has a singlet top ON" and stopped himself to mumble and deflect once he realised he shouldn't know that, lol

 

[Consider]

It occurs to me that prosecution has not offered a cause of death, so a question may remain, was Allison dead before she was under the bridge? or worse; sometime later?

It seems very unlikely that a person considering suicide would walk 14k into a remote area, to jump from a not so high bridge, and into the mud. If you were to commit suicide it would be about who will find you and how, etc. Normally it would be jump from the story or the gateway....in front of the train, something with some visibility. Simply put no one ever commits suicide and disposes of their own body.

I am still hopeful they have the means to put GBC ( or at least his phone) on the bridge that night.

YES! That's a theory I'm stuck on.

IMO It's possible (despite the wording of initial charges : early days) that ABC was 'hurt' at home, then bled in a reclined rear position whilst being transported in Captiva (to bridge instead of to hospital for stitches) AND THAT at home she (yelled out) or on bridge scratched/fought GBC causing him a serious shove off with her right foot/runner to his (left) chest whilst on her back in the yard of the home with her hair collecting shrubbery bits AND THAT either at home (being shoved backwards down outside stairs) or at bridge (being shoved off : instead of taken to hospital) ABC gave a long grab to GBC face (yelled out) and that grab continued clawing down onto his right arm through his clothes to his arm pit. Her death (too awful and tragic and unnecessary, cruel and WRONG) may possibly have occurred with impact at base of bridge (?)

I'm trying place known bits of 'evidence' into a scenario that includes what witnesses heard.

I vaguely remember reading WS in 2012 stating bridge is near a BC scout camp... Bridge area known to them with a lesser known track running adjacent to the creek between the scout camp hut and the bridge. Makes me think ABC was transported to an area specifically chosen by the driver/murderer.