The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 18th June - Trial Day 6, Week 2

[ThaiBali]

Does anyone else here agree that the Prosecution must be holding something critical close to their chest? The performance so far has be a bit softly, softly for mine.

Saving the best for last... GOTCHA

 

[Makara]

My brother was a NSW Police Officer.He always carried his notebook and wrote down what was said word for word. When they have to go to court they use their notes to give evidence of actual conversations. It would be very bad for a court case if they didn't give exact words. Im sure what the officer wrote down is exactly what Olivia said. And i'm sure he would have noted if she was being smart.

Thanks Louisepiglet. My husband was also a policeman for 20 years and his notebook (many of them over the years) seemed to be like an extension of his body! :floorlaugh: As the name implies, it was used to make notes. To note observations at a crime scene etc. He would then have to type up a report from these notes to present in court. If he'd included in his notes or reports that the person he was dealing with was sarcastic, crazy, didn't like him etc. he would have been hauled over the coals by the judge or magistrate to substantiate these observations. He would have been asked if he was a physiologist, a psychiatrist etc. Basically the judge or magistrate would have put him back in his place - and that is to report what he saw and heard. Anything else would be classed as presumptive or even prejudicious. And this is exactly what Constable Ash did in his statement. He simply stated what OW had said to him. I'm guessing though that Constable Ash probably thought that OW was a total nutjob! :floorlaugh:

 

[Total]

Just looking thru the first police interview at the house
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30814&d=1363404503
(text loosely abbreviated by me)

Police: what does she normally wear walking/jogging?
BC: one of two outfits - black or grey
Police: Which one's missing?
BC: the grey one

and then
Police: singlet top or a shirt?
BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um [INDISTINCT] she sometimes wears a sloppy joe or something over the top of that. Um it's also grey" (quoted exactly)

Ok now for starters - he really had time to search her wardrobe/dirty laundry to see what was missing? while driving around, speed shaving, making lunches and being constantly on the phone?
(Interview commenced at 08:18 am)

And even if you did have time - I couldn't work out what my partner was wearing by going thru his wardrobe if I had an hour or more - I wouldn't have a clue - who would?

and then he even knows she has a singlet not a shirt on - again who would know? Most ppl would have lots of singlets/t-shirts and probably just grab the closest one that's clean, depending on the weather or some minor whim, no?

AND this line - BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um...
It sounds like he nearly said "she has a singlet top ON" and stopped himself to mumble and deflect once he realised he shouldn't know that, lol

Initially I was worried that there were 7 men and only 5 women on the jury. I have changed my mind. I believe that men will look at Gerid and know from personal experience that he is lying. About the shaving cuts (which male hasn't had them), about so called knowing what Allison was wearing (most men have a hard enough time remembering special outfits..really grey or black, and the singlet top?)


Another thing has stuck in my mind reading back over the interviews, when he says at about 9.30 that 'Allison HAD been looking forward to the conference', not IS but HAD. If someone had only gone missing there is no way you would start talking straight away about them in the past tense, but he does. Even though I always have believed he was guilty, I find these type of manifestations (lol) quite unnerving and am thinking that maybe premeditated murder is not such a big stretch at all.

 

[Jo04]

...and my BIG boy turned 31 last week (9th)

My eldest son turned 8 on the 9th, my baby girl turned 5 yesterday and in 13 days my middle child (my baby boy). Turns 6. It's birthday season in our house


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ThaiBali]

Do you think there will be a cheesemaker on the stand poss? They seem to play such a recurring part in all this (owning house being "renovated" when hand was cut, owning home needing to be "vacuumed", owning car that was in an "accident", provided supporting affidavit for GBC at bail hearing, what else.....?)

Since when does a real estate agent vacuum, hose and do minor repairs on listings. It would be beneath the BC's, cleaning with cuff links.

Poor Allison had to put up with living with the Out Laws. They were practically in her face daily, phone calls 10 a day. I wouldn't put up with it even though I get on with mine..less is more.

AND, I believe Gerry never went to bed that night way too much to do, clean, alibi to be worked on, get the good cups and saucers out - to show they weren't peasants..

 

[Neuromancer]

Another thing has stuck in my mind reading back over the interviews, when he says at about 9.30 that 'Allison HAD been looking forward to the conference', not IS but HAD. If someone had only gone missing there is no way you would start talking straight away about them in the past tense, but he does. Even though I always have believed he was guilty, I find these type of manifestations (lol) quite unnerving and am thinking that maybe premeditated murder is not such a big stretch at all.

Yes!

And after posting that I noticed the same thing but in reverse with:
BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um...

At the time he knows that she HAS a singlet top on and nearly says so

 

[Cattail]

If Alison was smothered in bed there would be a fairly immediate bodily response from the various orifices so the sheets would be soiled. Sorry for the ick factor but several sites I googled said upon death, the body releases its sphincters. Dr Watson will be a good respondent to set me straight..... gross....again sorry

Also if she was smothered where did all the blood in the car come from?

 

[Kimster]

Also if she was smothered where did all the blood in the car come from?

Perhaps a cut or something while moving the body? Hurts to type that. :tears:

 

[DrWatson]

Morning all - just checking in. I haven't been able to read any of yesterday's goings-on, due to work and a very long day yesterday. And the same will be the case today, unfortunately, so I apologise in case anyone has directed any questions my way.

Off to work again, and will check in tonight - sometime...!

 

[Fuskier]

past tense[/B], but he does. Even though I always have believed he was guilty, I find these type of manifestations (lol) quite unnerving and am thinking that maybe premeditated murder is not such a big stretch at all.

Exactly Total. His own use of language reveals past tense about Allison and it's only 9.30am that morning. [There seemed to be no thought of her turning up late or attending the afternoon session after lunch]. There was a finality about her in his own speech.
The Police did not miss this IMO.

 

[Fuskier]

Morning all - just checking in. I haven't been able to read any of yesterday's goings-on, due to work and a very long day yesterday. And the same will be the case today, unfortunately, so I apologise in case anyone has directed any questions my way.

Off to work again, and will check in tonight - sometime...!

Thanks for checking in Doc. Nice to know you're around and will catch up when you can.

 

[Ippygal]

My thoughts for today- where do we think Alison's blood came from?? I am of the belief she was strangled or (more likely) suffocated..(think pillow held over head, scratches to GBC's face from her fighting him off). I am in the medical field, but don't know much about strangulation or suffocation - (not something I have ever dealt with in 24 years in hospitals!!) do people bleed from the nose/mouth??

 

[Miss W]

Hi everyone you a doing a great job of keeping us updated on the court proceedings. I think the last two days prosecution have presented some great information about GBC and he is shown as the terrible controlling mean person he is.

My theory on the blood in the car is Alison was hurt trying to get her into the car and he put her sitting position in the car in which her body feel forward onto the door. So the seat was then put back in a laying position to stop this happening which she the contacted the part of the boot where the blood was.

I hope the jury nails GBC and then go after any others involved or others for withholding information .

 

[LadyBird1]

If I remember correctly she saw Mummy on the couch and Dad rushed upstairs in his PJs with his SHOES on ! .....(doing the ironing...? !)
Do you think Mummy was already deceased ?
God I hope not !

I thought about this too. However, Somewhere between the BC household and the Kholo bridge, her hair came in contact with plants from the BC patio area. So unless she was dragged out by her feet, ........not impossible ...........
I was about to explain or remind about it happening outside because of the plants in her hair .....

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm unsure too .. was the body so decomposed that they couldn't determine strangulation .. isn't there a bone in the neck which usually breaks when that occurs? I'm with suffocation as most likely too .. but no idea why that meant she bled, unless he hit her first .. but if so where is the blood in the house? Also, if the fight was that violent wouldn't the kids have woken up?

Other option is that he dragged her out to the car unconscious but still just alive and the injury to the head happened outside.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I thought about this too. However, Somewhere between the BC household and the Kholo bridge, her hair came in contact with plants from the BC patio area. So unless she was dragged out by her feet, ........not impossible ...........
I was about to explain about it happening outside because of the plants in her hair .....

Ahhhh .. thanks .. so now I'm thinking that the majority of the fight happened outside .. she may have shoved her face into the soil to finish off the suffocation which he'd started as strangulation from the front, that would explain all the injuries on him and the lack of blood in the house, and perhaps why the kids didn't wake up.

I don't think the crime was premeditated, I think it was a fight the escalated quickly .. nor do I think anyone helped him dispose of Allison's body.

 

[truthseeker2011]

Must be nearly time for the morning jump to a new thread …. Marlywings, are you out there?

 

[LadyBird1]

Ahhhh .. thanks .. so now I'm thinking that the majority of the fight happened outside .. she may have shoved her face into the soil to finish off the suffocation which he'd started as strangulation from the front, that would explain all the injuries on him and the lack of blood in the house, and perhaps why the kids didn't wake up.

I don't think the crime was premeditated, I think it was a fight the escalated quickly .. nor do I think anyone helped him dispose of Allison's body.

Of course if she was "asleep" on the lounge, the easiest way to get her outside would be to drag her by the feet. Even a girl could do that.

 

[Freya1977]

My thoughts for today- where do we think Alison's blood came from?? I am of the belief she was strangled or (more likely) suffocated..(think pillow held over head, scratches to GBC's face from her fighting him off). I am in the medical field, but don't know much about strangulation or suffocation - (not something I have ever dealt with in 24 years in hospitals!!) do people bleed from the nose/mouth??

Strangulation might be unlikely because her hyoid bone was intact, although it is POSSIBLE to not break it... I am leaning towards a scuffle / fall /suffocation from hands over mouth and nose to make her be quiet

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Strangulation might be unlikely because her hyoid bone was intact, although it is POSSIBLE to not break it... I am leaning towards a scuffle / fall /suffocation from hands over mouth and nose to make her be quiet

Yep .. seems most likely! Only I think he flipped her over and shoved her face into the soft ground.