The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[Snails]

OMG - that talk about a son for heritage keeping drives me insane- even the queen has amended the constitution so a female can now ascend to the throne. So keeping a name alive should not be something that is left primarily to a male.

I mean ...for heavens sake -you need a boy to keep the family line alive. That is such a medieval concept! I would be proud that my daughters had chosen a husband wisely and were happy and I am dead set sure if their family felt our need to 'keep the family name alive' then....their decision would support naming a child in that respect. You don't have to give a child your last name.

As the mother of three daughters I can honestly say that I NEVER EVER felt any disappointment about not having a son. Maybe because I had no brothers myself. I was (& still am) very grateful to have 3 healthy & happy daughters. Regarding the screams, I still have a strong feeling that Allison was smothered and she fought back kicking and scratching, but not screaming. My only concern is that if it was by smothering where did all the blood in the car come from? Still pondering . . .

 

[Thinking]

Ok so new witness. I don't think this necessarily harms the prosecution case, it actually makes more sense of it. Evidence of screams was very hit and miss and If Allison did not scream, it make sense why the girls did not hear anything inside the house. Suggests to me that there may not have been an argument. Maybe he did smother her with a pillow and she woke and scratched and fought. I never thought he would have the guts to tell her Toni was going to be at the conference.

Yes I think this new evidence is so interesting and does indeed make more sense of the screams that were heard in the area. It kind of aligns all the evidence given, especially by the girls (and kiwijayne ).

At least two of the psychologists and other personal friends of Allison's who have described her as "non-confrontational" in nature, and someone who avoids conflict, which made it difficult to imagine her engaging in a full in screaming match with GBC (although of course we can all be pushed to our limits).

The defence must be feeling things aren't going too well for them, if they needed to bring in his witness at this late stage? I don't believe it helps them either, it actually eliminates the uncertainty which surrounded the reported screams.

 

[LadyBird1]

And just to add a little more confusion about times...lol.

Trial Day 2...

June 11, 2014

Ms Waymouth said Ms Baden-Clay left the salon around 7pm

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/0/fi11726703.htm

H .. h.. (squeaky voice) Hello MW. Yesterday it was said that Allison left the hairdresser at 7.00pm

I am still working on that Timeline with corroborated facts.
Hope you don't mind if I post it from time to time with updates that become available.
It appears slightly different to a timeline, such as presented earlier say a year or two ago, when people such as myself were thinking that certain people's word held merit.

I just wanted a Datum that was true and that could be corroborated.
And I more than welcome corrections. Please.

 

[Groundedgirl]

MOO - I think those injuries were from her fighting him as he killed her. Scratch to the face, then scratching and grabbing / twisting of his skin near his armpit....eta... and whilst you're leaning over someone like that, the chest skin under the arms and around the neck is accessible and quite grabbable.

Yes. I would also bet had they checked his genital area, there would be bruising there too

 

[Liadan]

As the mother of three daughters I can honestly say that I NEVER EVER felt any disappointment about not having a son. Maybe because I had no brothers myself. I was (& still am) very grateful to have 3 healthy & happy daughters. Regarding the screams, I still have a strong feeling that Allison was smothered and she fought back kicking and scratching. My only concern is that if it was by smothering where did all the blood in the car come from? Still pondering . . .

Honestly Snails so with you ---

( I have a brothers who can pass on our family name)-but when I married my hubby he was really keen for me to take on his name. This was fine by me cause my last name was about 20,000 letters long. My hubby and I ended up having two boys. But my hubby has such a good relationship with my parents that if they had asked my hubby what can we do to keep the family name line alive (if I had no brothers) - then hubby would have obliged in anyway they asked. And my parents would have felt completely comfortable asking and completely happy that my sons would carry a generational version of their name.

 

[Smegal]

Dr G had to, he'd (GBC) already proved he was inept at shaving!!!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[possumheart]

H .. h.. (squeaky voice) Hello MW. Yesterday it was said that Allison left the hairdresser at 7.00pm

I am still working on that Timeline with corroborated facts.
Hope you don't mind if I post it from time to time with updates that become available.
It appears slightly different to a timeline, such as presented earlier say a year or two ago, when people such as myself were thinking that certain people's word held merit.

I just wanted a Datum that was true and that could be corroborated.
And I more than welcome corrections. Please.

:yourock:

 

[marlywings]

So who do think would be more accurate and where did the 6:30pm time come from?

It just gets so confusing at times and I really wouldn't like to be a jurer in this case at all!

At this stage I'd go with "around 7pm" as that is the time she gave in court on Trial Day 2. There's no mention of the time in her actual statement.

The previous time of 6.30pm was noted in BrisbaneTimes from bail hearing...

June 27, 2012

April 19, 2012 (the day, police allege, Mrs Baden-Clay was killed)

Mr Baden-Clay and his alleged mistress, Toni McHugh, have a conversation in the afternoon about their relationship's future.

About 6.30pm, Mrs Baden-Clay leaves her local Kenmore hairdresser.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz354i2bEx6

 

[SleuthingSally]

The jumper pulled up over her head.. Has it been discussed that was to cover her face? Showing it's deeply personal?
I think her body being directly under the bridge us very damning for the suicide theory!

 

[LadyBird1]

4.00pm Allison's hairdresser appointment

7.00pm Allison left the hairdresser (possibly to drive straight? home about 15 or so minutes. Add time getting to and from car, etc.)

................. (to be filled in)

7.50pm Allison sent a text to her friend KAW regarding ballgowns.

Allison returned home at some time before or after 7.50pm. This is conjecture, give or take say 30 minutes.

Assuming (on my part only) that the children were fed, and possibly bathed, Allison would have said "Hello", and more importantly "Hello" to her three children.
If it is true that the children were fed and bathed, Allison may have needed time to prepare a meal for herself. Maybe not, may have got straight down to business, i.e. Toni and the conference.

Key words here: the Conference and TMcH.

An argument ensured. (Children on the periphery in hiding and terrified. Pretending not to hear) (Conjecture on my part.)

10.00pm Anne Marie Rhodes heard fighting, a scream and a thud and car wheels screeching.

10.30pm (approximately) Anne Marie Rhodes heard a loud thud. Then heard car wheels squeal and the car go back towards Brookfield.


A long gap follows ......


06.00am hours OW was at the GBC household, when the children were told Mummy had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back.

6.20am: GBC sent a text message to Allison saying: “Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G”

6.41am: GBC sent second text message “Al, getting concerned. Where are you?The app doesn’t say either?The children now up. I’m dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G”.

7.09am: Police allege GBC searched the term ‘self incrimination’ on the Internet.

7.14am: It is alleged GBC accessed the Queensland Police Service home page.

7.15am: GBC called 000.

8.30am: Uniformed police arrive at the home in response to the triple 0 call

9.34am: Police allege GBC searched ‘psychiatrists Brisbane West’ on his phone.

9.54am: Police commenced the investigation into Allison’s disappearance.

10:01am - GBC phoned the Brookfield School.

12:00pm - GBC phoned NBC. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

12:25pm - GBC phoned the Brookfield Showground maintenance man. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

12:29pm - GBC phoned his solicitor Darren Mahoney. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

12:51pm - GBC phoned his solicitor Darren Mahoney. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

1:06pm - GBC phoned NBC. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

1:11pm - GBC phoned Robyn Ratcliffe, Solicitor Toowoomba. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

1:12pm - GBC phoned Robyn Ratcliffe, Solicitor Toowoomba. Call pinged from Chapel Hill.

 

[Snails]

Honestly Snails so with you ---

( I have a brothers who can pass on our family name)-but when I married my hubby he was really keen for me to take on his name. This was fine by me cause my last name was about 20,000 letters long. My hubby and I ended up having two boys. But my hubby has such a good relationship with my parents that if they had asked my hubby what can we do to keep the family name line alive (if I had no brothers) - then hubby would have obliged in anyway they asked. And my parents would have felt completely comfortable asking and completely happy that my sons would carry a generational version of their name.

That whole "carry on the family name" business I don't get but I do believe it's VERY important for the BC's, hence the name change from plain old "Clay" to the much more important sounding "2 dad" name "Baden-Clay". So last century. You can actually change your name legally by deed poll, but only once a year. Lol! After reverting to my maiden name after divorce I would never go through that again, and I haven't (I've remarried).

 

[Sebastian01]

As the mother of three daughters I can honestly say that I NEVER EVER felt any disappointment about not having a son. Maybe because I had no brothers myself. I was (& still am) very grateful to have 3 healthy & happy daughters. Regarding the screams, I still have a strong feeling that Allison was smothered and she fought back kicking and scratching, but not screaming. My only concern is that if it was by smothering where did all the blood in the car come from? Still pondering . . .

I believe that GBC may have smothered her in bed. Remember the 000 call where he firstly mentioned "when we" went to bed, then changed it to I? Not a doctor, but am wondering if there is necessarily any blood when someone is smothered? If not, this may explain why there was no blood on the sheets. I believe he may have hit her in the head on something as he was trying to load her into the car. This may also have been the same time her tooth was chipped etc. If her head was hit, as has been mentioned in earlier threads, this may also account for the advanced state of decomposition in that area. IMO

 

[Freya1977]

OT... DH and I were discussing this other day and figured that when we grew up there were on 2 x sexes now know there is about x 7 ! (we are dinosaurs !)
1. Male
2. Female
3. Male homosexual
4. Female homosexual
5. Male bi-sexual
6. Female bi-sexual
7. Unsexual/Monosexual (? I can't think of name) but none of above, prefer to be alone

Sexual preference has nothing to do with gender. The genders are basically male, female, intersex, transgender.

Any of those genders can be homosexual, bisexual, asexual (no sexual attractions) or anywhere in between. Many people don't like to be labeled, and others have no adopted the term "queer".

Also, none of this is new - there have always been people who identified as all these things but only now is it possible for people to be able to discuss it and actually express themselves.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[tarjessi]

I haven't see the photos of Allison's body at all but I got the impression the coroner thought the jumper might have been used as a ligature or ended up tangled about her arms and head due to the body possibly being dragged? I don't think I have personally seen any posts her face being covered as it is a deeply personal crime but you never know.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

OMG - that talk about a son for heritage keeping drives me insane- even the queen has amended the constitution so a female can now ascend to the throne. So keeping a name alive should not be something that is left primarily to a male.

I mean ...for heavens sake -you need a boy to keep the family line alive. That is such a medieval concept! I would be proud that my daughters had chosen a husband wisely and were happy and I am dead set sure if their family felt our need to 'keep the family name alive' then....their decision would support naming a child in that respect. You don't have to give a child your last name.

The irony of all this silliness is that the BCs were not "real Badens" (the important name). They are descended from the female line, so Nige needed to ramp up his name to get the recognition he so dearly wanted. Anyone can give themselves any wanky name they want to. It's all BS (IMO).

 

[Sebastian01]

I haven't see the photos of Allison's body at all but I got the impression the coroner thought the jumper might have been used as a ligature or ended up tangled about her arms and head due to the body possibly being dragged? I don't think I have personally seeing any posts her face being covered as it is a deeply personal crime but you never know.

I don't believe he threw her over the bridge. I believe he used one of the pathways down to the area and carried, then dragged her down there. This is why the jumper was pushed up over her head. The intention of course to make it look as if she had committed suicide.

 

[Liadan]

The only reason you need to hang on to a name is that you can't make one for yourself!

 

[KG1]

Olivia, this is NOT the words of a caring husband. What man doesn't know what medication his wife needs.
Maybe she did want to discuss it BUT YOU WERE NEVER AROUND TO CARE!

we haven't really discussed it for a long time??? you didn't want to know!!


“I’m not a hundred per cent sure about that, Kieron was asking me before, we haven’t really discussed it for a long time, it used to be a daily dose of Zoloft.”

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226956622231

Note the very early familiarity with Constable Ash. Con artistes and BS artistes use familiarity early and frequently to insert themselves into the 'group' so to speak. (Hey Ash, I'm your pal) MOO

 

[LadyBird1]

The jumper pulled up over her head.. Has it been discussed that was to cover her face? Showing it's deeply personal?
I think her body being directly under the bridge us very damning for the suicide theory!

Is it any wonder how the rumour got around early about "No hands"
From someone close to someone:
Allison BC has been found under Kholo Creek Bridge.
No-one could see her hands.
Her hands were not visible.
Her hands were missing!!
It was "a little bit" true. Her hands were hidden within her jumper.

 

[Isabellnecessary]

Yes. I would also bet had they checked his genital area, there would be bruising there too

Agree... the panicking grabs to the neck, face and chest areas all resemble finger width scratching too.... All done with a pillow over the head or being pushed into water from above... hands on shoulders held under water... her grabbing at him, whatever she could get her hands on.

He must have been blissful that it was taking so long to find her ... all the decomposition, removing the evidence.

Smug **ick