The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 1st July - Trial Day 13, Week 3

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Snipped by me :)



LOL - I so agree.
(Thread up there somewhere)
Sorry, don't mean to be the repeater poster tonight :D
By the time I get some words together we'll be at Day 14.

.

LOL. You're not the repeater poster FigTree. We're just on the same wave length and I just happened to press the send button a couple of minutes before you. :floorlaugh:
 
Oh I didn't know the Short Stories brand was still around.
I used to buy it a Big W.

On second thunk the one I was thinking of was Bedtime Stories.

ETA:
LOL - No worries.
Thats what I'll be doing in a minute.
Thanks for the correction.

:seeya:

:eek:fftobed:
 
Well not long to go now kids and I still feel the performance of the Prosecution could be much stronger. I know we want to feel Todd Fuller is doing a brilliant job, and we are willing him on to be possibly greater than he actually is. If GBC is found guilty none of this will matter, for those of us which appears to be most of us, GBC is guilty and justice will finally be done.

But I'm still not sure what the verdict will be, so if I was in Todd Fuller's place, among other things, it is THE LIES I would be focussing on, in a big way, a very detailed way. Obviously the facts of the case and all the events that occurred have to be referred to and brought out, and this is happening for the most part, and Fuller is being quite nimble in his questioning which moves about from one topic to the other quite rapidly.

But in relation to THE LIES, of which there have been many, having been a woman who was cheated on and lied to multiple times in a relationship, this is the line of questioning I would take ...

(please note I have not researched the accurate numbers - numbers used as a hypothetical, but as I said having been in the situation I believe these figures would be quite accurate, possibly underestimated)

I would recap with Gerard how long each of the two phases of his relationship went for with Toni ....

"How many weeks for the first phase, Gerard? Was it 18 months - so about 75 weeks?"

"So, on average how many encounters per week did you have with Toni, Gerard?"

"Was it 3, 4 or more? Did you always have sex, or were there dates where you just went for a meal or drinks, or lunch? So, how many a week in total"

"Were you sometimes home late after work?"

"Did Allison ever call you when you were with Toni, wondering where you were, or call asking when you'd be home? What did you tell her? Did you say you were working back late at the office, or seeing potential clients? Did Allison ever ask you how your day went? Did you tell her of meetings or activities that didn't happen to cover for things like going to lunch with Toni or having sex in various locations during the day? Did Allison ever call you at the office and you weren't available and she then asked you later where you were?"

"What did you tell her?"

"Did you ever spend several hours having an encounter with Toni and so didn't get a lot of work done that day, and then lied to Allison about how busy you were, or about what you had or hadn't achieved?"

"Were you ever on the 'batphone' to Toni and a call came through on your other phone from Allison, and you either ignored it or had yours turned off, and then called Allison later and lied to her about why you couldnt take the call?"

"So on average Gerard, even taking into account that some of your encounters with Toni went completely unnoticed and unquestioned, would you say about 6 or 7 lies a week on average?"

"So, let's say about 500 lies in the 18 month period relating to hiding the first phase of your affair with Toni. Because that's what affairs involve, Gerard don't they, constant lies?"

"Would you say that to be good at keeping an affair a secret for a long period, among other things you have to be good at lies, good at deception Gerard - and prepared to lie on a regular basis?"

"Gerard, as well as these lies to Allison, you have already told us you lied to Toni on a number of occasions, telling her what she wanted to hear. Telling her you were going to leave Allison, telling her you loved her, constant false promises, reassurances and pronouncements of love?"

"So, although I'm not sure all of those things you said to Toni were lies at the time, if they were not, then you have lied to the court and told the court that they were lies, when they were actually true, so either way, more lies - is that not correct Gerard?"

"And then you have told us that you assured Allison your affair was over with Toni and yet you recommenced the affair and covered that up as well so more lies?"

"And you deceived Allison about contact with Toni on the phone by having a second phone, secret from Allison? and you allowed Allison to think she was monitoring your phone usage when in actual fact it was a farce because of this second phone - the 'batphone'?"

"And on top of all this you engaged in the common behaviour of the serial cheater, sleeping with a couple of other women as well, most likely involving more lies, especially as one encounter was at a conference where you possibly lied in some way to Allison and Toni about how you spent your time there?"

"Perhaps then another few hundred lies to be added, Gerard?"

"So Gerard, would it be true to say that in the 2-3 years preceding Allison's death if it was worked out on a weekly basis, taking everything into account, that you could have told more than a thousand lies? And based on the fact that you were able to conceal your affair with Toni from Allison for such a long time, and string Toni along as well, and conceal the fact you had sex with two other women, that you had become very good at lying, very successful in fact? That in fact lying had become second nature to you?"

"Gerard, is it not true that you have become used to lying to save your own skin, to conceal the real you, to conceal your real activities, to tell people what they want to hear, and to say what is going to put yourself in the most favourable light? Is that not what all those lies represent?"

"SO GERARD - HOW IS THIS COURT SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE YOU NOW?"

Somewhere in there I would also include a reference to the fact that perhaps it could be considered reasonable to assume that when a person has a partner who is constantly lying that even if they don't know what is going on they can FEEL it, they feel uneasy, inadequate, uncertain and confused and this can lead to ongoing anxiety and depression, and constant questioning of themselves as to whether they are good enough, especially in a good person who doesnt try to blame others.

I would also get into the concept that there could have been other affairs or infidelities that haven't been exposed - this is quite common.

Yet despite all this, Allison was working on her marriage, putting down some ground rules, and gradually making some career moves to regain her independence and also help the family situation, feeling strong, having her hair done, and it appears, driving the vehicle that the girls said was hers.

I would paint quite a different picture to the one Gerard has been trying to paint of himself in my closing address, I would refer to all of the above, plus do a detailed analysis of the ambiguous and conflicting responses given by Gerard so far, in every area.

God help us, I hope some of the above occurs - especially the detailed painting of a picture of a serial liar, a life of lies, rather than a life of sacrifice for a mentally sick wife who got that way through no fault of his own. If it doesn't go that way, then I hope the verdict shows it didn't matter.

(Sorry if the above rambles, I'm exhausted and frustrated, sleep deprived and time poor, and if I really was in Todd Fuller's position I would do a more refined job of it, but I hope you get my drift!)
 
Respectfully snipped by me....

"SO GERARD - HOW IS THIS COURT SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE YOU NOW?"

Somewhere in there I would also include a reference to the fact that perhaps it could be considered reasonable to assume that when a person has a partner who is constantly lying that even if they don't know what is going on they can FEEL it, they feel uneasy, inadequate, uncertain and confused and this can lead to ongoing anxiety and depression, and constant questioning of themselves as to whether they are good enough, especially in a good person who doesnt try to blame others.

I would also get into the concept that there could have been other affairs or infidelities that haven't been exposed - this is quite common.

Yet despite all this, Allison was working on her marriage, putting down some ground rules, and gradually making some career moves to regain her independence and also help the family situation, feeling strong, having her hair done, and it appears, driving the vehicle that the girls said was hers.

I would paint quite a different picture to the one Gerard has been trying to paint of himself in my closing address, I would refer to all of the above, plus do a detailed analysis of the ambiguous and conflicting responses given by Gerard so far, in every area.

God help us, I hope some of the above occurs - especially the detailed painting of a picture of a serial liar, a life of lies, rather than a life of sacrifice for a mentally sick wife who got that way through no fault of his own. If it doesn't go that way, then I hope the verdict shows it didn't matter.

(Sorry if the above rambles, I'm exhausted and frustrated, sleep deprived and time poor, and if I really was in Todd Fuller's position I would do a more refined job of it, but I hope you get my drift!)

Your drift is taken, and applauded. Nice post.
I agree with regarding any other affairs.

And all the questioning too.
I'd like to see questions put one at a time to GBC - and not have a two phase question. I think GBC is using that double line of questioning to his advantage...

I think Fuller is just laying the foundations carefully at the moment.

:seeya:
 
Respectfully snipped by me....



Your drift is taken, and applauded. Nice post.
I agree with regarding any other affairs.

And all the questioning too.
I'd like to see questions put one at a time to GBC - and not have a two phase question. I think GBC is using that double line of questioning to his advantage...

I think Fuller is just laying the foundations carefully at the moment.

:seeya:

I hope you're right.

And I agree, questions put one at a time. I grouped some of mine to save space! (and obviously there was no one answering - which is what I'd like to see!)

And now I better get to bed - hope to go to court tomorrow.
 
CON SIMMONS: Yeah. When was the last time you tried to call?

BADEN-CLAY: I think [INDISTINCT] couple of your colleagues
have called [INDISTINCT] from the landline. Um I haven't
called from this number since 7.35 this morning. I’ll try
again.

SCON MCLEOD: Yeah.

CON SIMMONS: Oh you can’t hurt.

BADEN-CLAY: I think that’s probably about, it was just after
I called.

CON SIMMONS: [INDISTINCT]. Does she normally like charge it
up somewhere around here at night, or [INDISTINCT] how much
charge--

BADEN-CLAY: Yeah. And I mean--

CON SIMMONS: [INDISTINCT]?

BADEN-CLAY: This charger is [INDISTINCT] from her, beside
the, the bed on her side.

CON SIMMONS: Yeah.

BADEN-CLAY: We have one on either side.

CON SIMMONS: Yeah.

BADEN-CLAY: Sometimes she does forget.


Interview with Const Simmons

Im not a good sleuther I read about the phone charger when this transcript was released but didnt think anything of it :(

SO was her charger by her bedside? If not, I wonder if it is with her pyjamas too?
 
A few people have mentioned this in relation to the oversize tracky dacks.
Dressing inert bodies isn't actually that hard - you just have to roll them from side to side and pull up one side of the garment at a time.

:gasp: :escape:
 
What are y'all doing up this late? You need your rest for trial! Here, I'm bringing in a special team to help you guys get some shut eye.

3802486038.jpg

http://b.pcc2.fubar.com/78/80/8270887/3802486038.jpg
 
GOODMORNING off to work. Damn. Will have to sneak and follow
all day. Hope he sinks.
 
Do you think the trial will still be going next week? I can't go till then.

In court yesterday the judge was discussing this with both teams. It was agreed that defence would finish today then both teams would present their closing arguments tomorrow. Monday the judge would address the jury and then the jury would go out to deliberate. This was discussed for a good half hour or so and that's what was agreed. Hope is helps
 
Just in response to the questions around the insurance. It wouldn't matter that he did it before Al's birthday. The premiums could go up the older you get, but the payouts don't decrease with age. The payout is agreed - that's the sum you insure for and how much you get paid out.
In fact often the payout amount actually increases on the anniversary of taking out the policy but the premium stays much the same. This has been my experience with the policies that hubby and I have.
 
Just in response to the questions around the insurance. It wouldn't matter that he did it before Al's birthday. The premiums could go up the older you get, but the payouts don't decrease with age. The payout is agreed - that's the sum you insure for and how much you get paid out.
In fact often the payout amount actually increases on the anniversary of taking out the policy but the premium stays much the same. This has been my experience with the policies that hubby and I have.


Yes both my payout and premium are increased each year for CPI rises
 
Yeah, thanks good Doctor, I did, but I just wanted sex. My husband has gained weight and lost his libido while I've been busy doing all the ironing, you see. So it's all good. My able seaman's really helping my ailing business too. I am lying here on my confiscated phone texting you while whispering sweet whateverhewantstohears to him. It's not an affair. It's not a relationship. It's, it's, it's...COMPLICATED.

Well, just watch out for your able seaman starting to throw a tantrum and chuck objects your way - that's often an omen that your husband may be about to try and bump you one - er, off. And whatever you do, don't let your semen - er, seaman - go to the same function as your husband. If he shows your husband copies of these messages, there may be problems. Just make sure you keep your pyjamas on. And now I'd better get on with business as normal for the day. I have vacuuming, hosing, and light-bulb changing to be getting on with....
 
Well, just watch out for your able seaman starting to throw a tantrum and chuck objects your way - that's often an omen that your husband may be about to try and bump you one - er, off. And whatever you do, don't let your semen - er, seaman - go to the same function as your husband. If he shows your husband copies of these messages, there may be problems. Just make sure you keep your pyjamas on. And now I'd better get on with business as normal for the day. I have vacuuming, hosing, and light-bulb changing to be getting on with....


Thanks Doc for a chuckle to start the day ;)
 
Maybe Trooper went to the Courthouse yesterday? Took off on "business" right before the action started. Was thinking, oh no! Poor Trooper!
 
Just a few thoughts:

1. those built in shelf bras in the singlet tops are totally useless unless you're a teenager.

2. i've seen a few cases where someone gave a detailed description of what a victim was wearing and it's turned out to be that it was because that someone dressed the victim.

3. I think the reason they had to notify the insurance so quickly was because the premium hadn't been paid and they were worried that it would be void if they waited.
 
GBC didn't tell the police on the morning of 20 April that he was still in contact with Toni because he anticipated that Allison was going to walk back through the door.
What did he think? --- That the police were going to say good your back did you know Ger is still in contact with Toni.
Why did he tell them about the affair at all at that point?


He wanted a gold star from the police for being honest Gerry.
 
Morning all! I'll be in and out all day (sorry, not GBC-style). Hope to catch bits of stuff here and there (again, no reference to GBC!). This should be anything BUT a business as usual kinda day for GBC! Go QC Fuller!
 
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