The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 1st July - Trial Day 13, Week 3

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Did we ever find out why the police were asking people about the kenmore roundabout that night and saying they'd have seen something unusual? Implied they think something happened there and wanted witnesses? I have no idea what, can't have been just seeing the cars as seeing a car doesnt look unusual of itself.

Nooooo ! Do not mention the roundabout....There are some having nightmares about it ! LOL ! :D
 
So true! If Allison was his "beloved", then those pyjamas he mentions would be precious and an important clue to what happened to her.

So true ! My father died 20 years ago and my mother still sleeps with one of his jumpers under her pillow, threadbare as it is.... :(
 
So true ! My father died 20 years ago and my mother still sleeps with one of his jumpers under her pillow, threadbare as it is.... :(

Aww that is sad and so poignant at the same time :)
 
Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 11s
Fuller: She could have produced the email saying I am going to separate from my wife by July 1. #badenclay

I think TM would have certainly done this - GBC was afraid of this i would think - my sister's ex husband was having an affair for 2.5 yrs before she received a letter from the mistress who obviously got sick and tired waiting in the wings - he probably had no intention of leaving my sister and the kids but enjoyed this fling on the side !

My ex brother in law was obviously worried about having to sell the house etc if his wife found out etc
 
It is 1am in Melbs....Why am I up so late ?... to watch the tennis of course. Go Nick Kyrgios ! Off topic...Sorry ! :D
 
I think TM would have certainly done this - GBC was afraid of this i would think - my sister's ex husband was having an affair for 2.5 yrs before she received a letter from the mistress who obviously got sick and tired waiting in the wings - he probably had no intention of leaving my sister and the kids but enjoyed this fling on the side !

My ex brother in law was obviously worried about having to sell the house etc if his wife found out etc

I know someone who and this a very weird situation is still married and she lives with another man. She sometimes goes back and stays in the "marital home/bed" with her husband. Then goes back to her own home with her other man. It has been this way for 20 plus years and they don't divorce due to money! As in they have lots.

They own property etc. They have been married 40 years or so and all their children are adults.
 

Thank you!

Courier Mail did a good synopsis regarding GBC narcissism and how he continues to bury his preferred image.

I did read live all references to GBC's 'choice' 'fundraising' to keep C21 franchise and business image afloat at 'friends' expense...

The clothing seems to be the most recent focus of WS's.

Allison's missing pj's (unless she slept in walking gear : GBC certainly would have stated this as an 'out' - so pj's whereabouts remain an issue (?) as do the dresses that Allison was most keen to return to her best friend by 6pm after next days conference (thus needed Allison to locate and prep AND pack sometime between 7pm of her last night alive and 6am of her last assumed actions)

Reading posts in reverse order to catch up now : I blame the Irish bit of my heritage... Look forward to catching up in the wee hours then!
 
I believe from some posts here today that it is Allison's birthday. If that is correct, did he need her dead by July 1st- the date he told TM he would be a free man- so that he could claim more from the insurance? I don;t have life insurance myself so aren't aware of the aprticulars, but do they pay more say if you die at say 39 than what they would pay if you died at 40?

Don't know, but don't think it would fit anyway. Allison was killed in 2012. She would have turned 44 that 1st of July, so not a significant age as would be say 39 to 40 for the purposes of insurance. I don't think they'd pay differently for age 43 as opposed to 44. Hope that makes sense. (half asleep here).
 
If he said she was wearing a jumper on the couch that night and she was found wearing a jumper is it possible they are one and the same and he just changed the pants to make it look like a walking outfit? A singlet with built in bra could just as easily be worn as a pajama top as on a walk, k even think moreso because if you were going outside I'd wonder if you'd wear a real bra as those built in ones often aren't real thick.

The jumper was found up around her head too. Is it possible he originally tried to take that off to swap that over but it got stuck and he gave up figuring it could work as a walking outfit and just changed the pants over to walking pants (easier). That if the jumper wasn't around the head on purpose to absorb blood.

I think they should press more on the clothes and if any are missing but also how he knows so well what she was wearing when he's vague on so many other details of that time period and he supposedly never saw her dressed for a walk that morning.

Since most the evidence is circumstantial they need to pick holes in his story. They're going really well and I was loving some parts of today but I don't know how much the jury need to not 'think' he did it but be sure.

Susan this is my thinking exactly. I think that the top Allison was found in is the same one she was wearing with her pyjama bottoms prior to her murder. GBC changed Allison into her (as he described) daggy old grey pants to make it appear that she'd gone for a walk. He had to come up with a reason why she'd disappeared. There may not have been any blood on Allison's pyjamas at all. GBC simply wanted to make it look like she'd gone for a walk and she wouldn't do that in her pj's. It would have been a simple matter of pulling down the pyjama pants and pulling on the XXL pants. Removing his socks from her feet and replacing them with a pair of Allison's and then putting on her runners. I just wish the laces in her runners had been checked as to which way they were tied. It would be obvious whether Allison had tied her own laces or someone had tied them while facing her.

From the autopsy report.

The body is clothed in the following:

  • What appeared to be a jacket at the death scene is a light coloured jumper. Most of the jumper is inside-out, and the hands remain within the sleeves. It is somewhat twisted and wrapped around the neck to some degree. Both the collar and waistband regions of the jumper are in the neck region. The jumper is a Bonds brand size XL. The unusual position of the jumper may have occurred after death with movement of the body. It cannot be excluded that it was used as a ligature.

  • Purple singlet with incorporated bra. It has thin straps over the shoulders. It is of Short Stories brand and size 12.

  • Dark coloured three-quarter length pants. They are Katies brand size XXL. There are no pockets.

  • Light coloured underpants.

  • Predominantly white sneakers with some blue areas. They are of Lynx brand size 9. They have some mud and dirt on them. On initial examination the laces of both shoes are tied up, but upon removal of the shoes the left shoelace came partially undone.

  • Short white socks with a darker band on top.

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Reading again over GBC's first interview at Brookfield, he describes what Allison was wearing, or what he thinks she was wearing. She wasn't wearing the black Lorna Jane outfit because he'd checked and it was still there. So why didn't he check for her pyjamas, even if it was just the pyjama pants?

I'm thinking that the pyjama's were mentioned at that interview or soon after but this information was never included in these bail application documents.

When you read the description GBC gives the police of what Allison was wearing, he is telling a half truth. In fact he almost trips himself up.

SGT JACKSON: Is it a singlet top or a shirt?

BADEN-CLAY: Ah she has a singlet top um* [INDISTINCT] she sometimes wears a sloppy joe or something over the top of that. Um it's also grey.

* Was he about to say she has a singlet top on? I think he was and then he deflects to "she sometimes wears a sloppy joe" etc.

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:) Susan, I saw you have posted something similar back a few posts.
I'm typing so slow tonight... and I agree with you.
These were my thoughts about the pyjamas too...


.
marlywings said:
Originally Posted by marlywings View Post
No doubt he was being a smart bottom but then he states...

Gerard: don't know where her pyjamas were. Her shoes were missing and a pair of leggings she wore

He claims the last time he saw Allison she was wearing chequered pyjamas.

Those pyjamas would be the first thing you would look for to show whether she'd changed into something else or not.

Yes - I would think so too marlywings.



From "himself" yesterday....so I guess there's a sloppy joe floating around somewhere along with the chequered pyjamas.

June 30, 2014

3:39pm: Mr Baden-Clay said his wife was wearing her pyjamas as they spoke on the couch that night.

"She had a sloppy joe of some sort over the top and blue hiking socks, which were actually mine, which she wore around the house as slippers," he said.

"Did you see her wearing anything else that night?" Mr Byrne said.

"No. When we got home she was already wearing that," Mr Baden-Clay replied.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-12-week-4-20140630-3b2vi.html#ixzz36DCw53Im

Bare with me on this...
*my addition

I have the impression that Allison was wearing the sloppy Joe/Jumper and the purple singlet with incorporated bra (the ones she was found in at Kholo Creek) when she was lying on the couch - as described by GBC.

I think the clothing change was only the bottom half of Allisons nightwear - which were:
The blue check pyjama pants and blue hiking socks.

When she was found - her bottom half clothing was changed to:
A dark coloured 3Quarter length Katies Brand XXL(*size 20) pants with no pockets (*mind you, these are approx 8 sizes larger than her singlet top)
a pair of light coloured panties,
Lynx size 9 White sneekers with some blue area on them,
short white socks with a blue band at the top of them.

It is the Autopsy report which says Allison was wearing under the Jumper:
A Short Stories brand of top - purple singlet with an incorporated bra - size 12 - with thin straps.

The Short Stories Brand singlet is described as lingerie and is/was sold at Bras 'n Things.
A similar style from the same outlet is in the category of sleepwear under accessories - it is for nightwear.
It is not a thick strapped singlet with support for exercise.
(Though to be totally sure of the correlation, Id like to see a picture of the singlet style she was found wearing)

I would like to know if it looked something like this:
Purple singlet with bra from Bras 'n Things - Shelf bra with singlet
http://www.brasnthings.com/sleepwear/loungewear-separates/lattice-floral-shelf-bra-singlet-blue

If so - she was still in half of her pyjamas when found.
I dont think she would have gone out walking in half her pyjamas.
The pants were not described as 'track' pants - just pants and much larger (I assume) than her regular size.


From the Autopsy report -
The jumper is described as follows - a light coloured BONDS XL


So my questions:
Was the jumper she wore on the couch the same jumper she was found in?
Was the top she wore on the couch the same top she was found in?
Where are the said 'blue check set of pyjamas (if any) and dark blue mountain socks'?

To add: The Autopsy Report says Regarding the Jumper: "It cannot be excluded that it was used as a ligature"

Thoughts...
Did they check for urine anywhere in the crime scene?
What if the pyjama bottoms panties, socks were soiled, even from ground dirt and debris.
The top half of Allisons clothing would not need removing.
Just the bottom half - especially if she had buckled and folded and sat on her feet if she had wet or soiled herself.
She would need to be clean to be moved.
No blood present if she was strangled, asphixiated - with/by plastic bag.
 
Is it just me or does anyone else think they should also push for answers as to why his family drove Allison's car that morning? I think this is crucial considering her blood was later found in it. They had their own cars there.

They didn't drive Allison's car. It remained in the carport.

ETA: Kieron Ash's statement re: the cars.

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Snipped by me :)

Susan this is my thinking exactly. I think that the top Allison was found in is the same one she was wearing with her pyjama bottoms prior to her murder. GBC changed Allison into her (as he described) daggy old grey pants to make it appear that she'd gone for a walk. He had to come up with a reason why she'd disappeared. There may not have been any blood on Allison's pyjamas at all. GBC simply wanted to make it look like she'd gone for a walk and she wouldn't do that in her pj's. It would have been a simple matter of pulling down the pyjama pants and pulling on the XXL pants. Removing his socks from her feet and replacing them with a pair of Allison's and then putting on her runners. I just wish the laces in her runners had been checked as to which way they were tied. It would be obvious whether Allison had tied her own laces or someone had tied them while facing her.

LOL - I so agree.
(Thread up there somewhere)
Sorry, don't mean to be the repeater poster tonight :D
By the time I get some words together we'll be at Day 14.

.
 
Dang - I must have gone to the wrong Maccas. I looked for a redhead in librarian glasses avoiding the coffee and ended up propositioning Prince Harry in drag. I hope you didn't make a fool of yourself with an off-duty sailor... ;)

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Prince Harry in drag! Now there's a visual. :floorlaugh:
 
Oh I didn't know the Short Stories brand was still around.
I used to buy it a Big W.


It is the Autopsy report which says Allison was wearing under the Jumper:
A Short Stories brand of top - purple singlet with an incorporated bra - size 12 - with thin straps.

The Short Stories Brand singlet is described as lingerie and is/was sold at Bras 'n Things.
[/B]
 
Finally caught up again. Going to work is such a pain.
Thanks to everyone doing the tweets. It is greatly appreciated.
The prosecution team is doing a great job. Hope it continues tomorrow.
Would love to have seen the faces of the BC clan during today.
 
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