The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 24th June - Trial Day 9, Week 3

[Cattail]

Defence is using this strategy with EVERY evidence, pretending that there is reasonable doubt if the experts can't exclude 100 %. At first sight this seems to be a clever strategy but if you look at the whole picture, you'll realise that defence does this all the time and that this, altogether, means that there is a reason that so many situations, although not 100 % impossible, are unlikely. The reason is that there is no reasonable doubt. Hopefully jurors at least have a rough idea of statistics...

To be fair they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try to show reasonable doubt.

Our justice system would not be very good if the accused didn't have the right to have fair legal representation.

 

[BreakingNews]

I can't help thinking how awful it must be for Allison's parents, family and friends to hear the forensics reports of today's hearing. However I doubt it made an impact on GBC. On the other hand, guess he would have hated to hear all about his financial problems and his inability to run a business. Public humiliation. They don't teach you at accountancy school that you just keep robbing Peter to pay Paul. Sooner or later Peter wants his money back.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think we won't hear anything about the contents of the vacuum cleaner, just my gut telling me it was of no evidentiary value to the prosecution.

Yes. Even if the vacuum cleaner was used to clean up the car/house - I can't think of anything (apart from blood/tooth chip maybe) that would be out of place from the normal household cleaning.

(Unless you found a blonde hair that had been bleached that day maybe)

 

[BreakingNews]

The pie face photo is the quintessential GBC photo. I don't know how the photographer did it, but he or she should receive a picture speaks 1000 words award. IMO

Wonder if the pie was an egg pie. Egg on face. Sure getting that now.:jail:

 

[nimrod_135]

Some updated evidence photos:
http://multimedia.aapnewswire.com.au/Search.aspx?search=baden-clay&section=newsroom

 

[Makara]

I think we won't hear anything about the contents of the vacuum cleaner, just my gut telling me it was of no evidentiary value to the prosecution. I think GBC really did want to get on with doing whatever he and NBC had planned to do on the cheesman house. He desperately needed that to get sold ASAP even if he thought he would be getting life insurance some time in the future.

So I think the whole thing about NBC putting the vacuum and hose in his car has nothing to do with Allison's death.

I hope I am wrong and there is some evidence there but I don't think so.

I also think there will be nothing about the roundabout. I think they were doing tests there to see if it was possible for the camera to not take a pic of a car going through it.

I agree about the roundabout. I think the police found what they were looking for there. It was reported last year that police had spoken to a woman who had driven through the roundabout, or was captured in the vicinity on CCTV in a silver Captiva, similar to GBC's. My guess is the police thought they had caught GBC on CCTV but were mistaken.


Drivers with cars similar to Gerard Baden-Clay quizzed in hunt for wife Allison's murderer

Kate Kyriacou, Greg Stolz
The Courier-Mail
May 28, 2012 12:00AM

POLICE are questioning western suburbs residents with cars similar to those driven by Gerard Baden-Clay about their movements on the night the real-estate identity's wife disappeared.

The Courier-Mail understands one local woman, who owns a silver Holden Captiva, was questioned at the weekend on whether she had driven through the Kenmore roundabout at the intersection of Moggill and Brookfield roads on Thursday, April 19 - the night Mrs Baden-Clay was last seen alive.

In an apparent bid to clarify reported sightings and rule out various vehicles in the area, the woman was also asked whether she had recently pulled her car over to the side of Mt Crosby Rd.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...llisons-murderer/story-e6freoof-1226368676196

 

[Tangled_Web]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...touted-as-lnp-mp/story-e6frep2f-1226347642847

Had forgotten this. Can't imagine what the lesser candidates must be like.

Quoting from the above article:

Gerard was once favoured in the LNP ranks as a future member of parliament, touted by at least one federal MP as the "best candidate" in the Moggill electorate for the 2004 state election.

"I thought he was definitely a future state government minister," said former LNP member and federal Ryan MP Michael Johnson. "He has a very strong pro-business background and that is the DNA of the Liberal Party."

 

[silverau]

The main thing that stood out for me from the Christ, Cheeseman and Cranna testimonies today is that the money loaned to GBC was deposited into the joint business account of GBC AND Allison. They being the owners of the company. So if GBC is convicted and has no way of paying back those loans, they will sue Allison's estate to recoup their money, plus interest. Or have I got that wrong? I just felt that those three were saying 'nice' things about Allison on the one hand, but on the other they had this agenda, a subtle hint that they know there is money held in trust and one way or another they will get their hands on it.

Wonder if they declared the interest that GBC had paid them to the ATO.

And seeing there was no written agreements,only their testimony in court as proof. they have a better chance getting the dosh back.

 

[Makara]

BBM... for emphasis..


think nice thoughts.. they cant because they didn't sign any papers formalising the arrangement... their agreement was a 'gentlemens ' one, a handshake thingy, and stated clearly, they didn't discuss or consult about it with Alison..

they can whistle dixie for the 90 thou, and they know it, too..

Phew! Thanks Trooper. I forgot about the gentlemen's agreement. Still wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could kick them!

 

[Trooper]

I can't help thinking how awful it must be for Allison's parents, family and friends to hear the forensics reports of today's hearing. However I doubt it made an impact on GBC. On the other hand, guess he would have hated to hear all about his financial problems and his inability to run a business. Public humiliation. They don't teach you at accountancy school that you just keep robbing Peter to pay Paul. Sooner or later Peter wants his money back.

Gerard wasn't even bright enough to pay Paul. he just kept robbing Peter..

and I agree totally with his fury at hearing his incompetence being displayed for all and sundry.. I bet he is more embarrassed about that than being tried for murder..

 

[Zorro]

IMO Dr Guymer's evidence can't throw light on where Allison (was) rolled on the ground.

The cat's claw, crepe myrtle, fishbone fern, chinese elm, lillypilly and greygum grow in or near most backyards in that suburb especially rented houses. Anyone owning a home and enjoying gardening will probably rip out the cat's claw, fishbone fern and chinese elm as they are weeds in the suburbs really.

I think what the prosecution is proving is that you don't get those plants in your hair by lolling around on the banks of Kholo Creek no matter how long you lie there, you get them from the suburbs.

These plants don't tie Allison to 593 Brookfield Rd.

 

[Snails]

Trooper the only thing of value in the business was the rent roll! That's why he had to keep it at all costs.

I have a friend in real estate and the cash cow in their business is the rent roll. Recently they purchased another agent nearby purely for the rent roll.

 

[Waiting for Justice]

I have a friend in real estate and the cash cow in their business is the rent roll. Recently they purchased another agent nearby purely for the rent roll.

Exactly!

 

[Makara]

IMO Dr Guymer's evidence can't throw light on where Allison (was) rolled on the ground.

The cat's claw, crepe myrtle, fishbone fern, chinese elm, lillypilly and greygum grow in or near most backyards in that suburb especially rented houses. Anyone owning a home and enjoying gardening will probably rip out the cat's claw, fishbone fern and chinese elm as they are weeds in the suburbs really.

I think what the prosecution is proving is that you don't get those plants in your hair by lolling around on the banks of Kholo Creek no matter how long you lie there, you get them from the suburbs.

These plants don't tie Allison to 593 Brookfield Rd.

Perhaps Dr. Guymer checked the surrounding properties for the same plants and found none. Just saying.

 

[whatif?]

A business/finance guy who doesn't remember the interest rate?

...

Neuromancer I was in court today, Mr Cranna said the interest rate was 'variable' because the loan was drawn down from his mortgage which had a variable rate.

There was mention before about a $6000 sum repaid in installments, Mr Cranna said in his testimony that Phil Broom was the one who actually paid that back. I don't know the significance of this and there was no further questioning regarding it, but I got the impression this took the prosecution by surprise.

While I'm here I'll also say the fifth member of the family was in court today too.

 

[they'll get you]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

OK Liaden now it up to you to explain the koppers logs theory.

See how we've done several full circles!
If in doubt please refer to thread 6, 12, 15, 34 & this one. :floorlaugh:

What are friends for.

. . . . :loveyou:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

IMO Dr Guymer's evidence can't throw light on where Allison (was) rolled on the ground.

The cat's claw, crepe myrtle, fishbone fern, chinese elm, lillypilly and greygum grow in or near most backyards in that suburb especially rented houses. Anyone owning a home and enjoying gardening will probably rip out the cat's claw, fishbone fern and chinese elm as they are weeds in the suburbs really.

I think what the prosecution is proving is that you don't get those plants in your hair by lolling around on the banks of Kholo Creek no matter how long you lie there, you get them from the suburbs.

These plants don't tie Allison to 593 Brookfield Rd.

Ooohhhh, that is probably true, unfortunately. And now ....????

 

[Amee]

Under cross examination Mr Cheesman said Baden-Clay had a number of assets in his own name, including shares, and was personally financially secure.

Mr Cheesman agreed with defence barrister Michael Byrne that if the business had failed Baden-Clay could 'walk away from it'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-Baden-Clay-went-missing.html#ixzz35XwxMiVY

 

[marlywings]

IMO Dr Guymer's evidence can't throw light on where Allison (was) rolled on the ground.

The cat's claw, crepe myrtle, fishbone fern, chinese elm, lillypilly and greygum grow in or near most backyards in that suburb especially rented houses. Anyone owning a home and enjoying gardening will probably rip out the cat's claw, fishbone fern and chinese elm as they are weeds in the suburbs really.

I think what the prosecution is proving is that you don't get those plants in your hair by lolling around on the banks of Kholo Creek no matter how long you lie there, you get them from the suburbs.

These plants don't tie Allison to 593 Brookfield Rd.

I'd agree re cat's claw, fishbone fern, chinese elm, lillypilly & greygums being very common. Cat's claw & fishbone fern, I think, are declared weeds. But I don't agree with crepe myrtles being all too common at all.

 

[Thinking]

Dr Guymer agreed he was shown other plant species by police, including grass and leaf fragments from a car, including the foot well, tyre tread and rear passenger side.

He said plants identified included melaleuca leaves and others.

Dr Guymer said he did a botanical survey of the area 50m below and above the Kholo Creek bridge and identified Chinese Elm and eucalypts in the distance.

He said he had a pair of binoculars with him and he walked around the creek, towards the Brisbane River and up towards Wirrabarra Rd and Little Ugly Creek.

He said he found none of the plants in that area.

Dr Guymer said he went to the scout camp off Bunya St but was also unable to find the plant species found on the body.

He told the court he also went to 593 Brookfield Rd at Brookfield on July 13, 2012.

“I observed from the property boundary and looked into the property,” he said.

The jury was shown a photo of the Baden-Clay house from the driveway.

Dr Guymer identified a Crepe Myrtle in the front yard and in another photo, Crepe Myrtle surrounding the boundary of the driveway as well as Fishbone Fern.

He also pointed out a Cat’s Claw Creeper plant.

Dr Guymer said he took a sample from the Crepe Myrtle and grew some cuttings from it.

He pointed out a Lilly Pilly in the garden near to the car port and driveway concreted area.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226964239691

Sorry if I missed it, but did Dr Guymer identify the leaves taken from the car? These are only going to be helpful if they match species from Kholo creek, right?