The December 23 party

[PremeditatedCrime]

icedtea4me,

You recently quoted this section of the RN: "Police, F.B.I., etc." The punctilious punctuation is striking for an writer in haste. There is also: "$118,000.00" which is even more peculiar.

Well, I would call premeditated murder, so written beforehand. Remember that the pages were taken from the "middle" of Patsys' notepad, not from the "top" of her notepad.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

icedtea4me,

You recently quoted this section of the RN: "Police, F.B.I., etc." The punctilious punctuation is striking for an writer in haste. There is also: "$118,000.00" which is even more peculiar.

Well, I would call premeditated murder, so written beforehand. Remember that the pages were taken from the "middle" of Patsys' notepad, not from the "top" of her notepad.

 

[proust20]

There is no way of knowing exactly when the RN was written. The latest that the RN could have been begun is around 5:20AM of the 26th.

 

[UKGuy]

And it's also worth noting that John Andrew has lied, and stated that it was the children's book. As recently as this month via Twitter. The adult book is more serious, as it could be used for grooming purposes.

By the way, I'm JDI with premeditated murder. Perhaps John hired Linda the housekeeper and her husband to do it? (Also believe that John framed Patsy, Burke and to a lesser degree John Andrew. I will bet that John physically moved John Andrew's suitcase to cast suspicion on him. Obviously that would lead the police on a wild goose chase, since John Andrew was in Georgia at the time.)

A taser was found in the home of Linda and her husband. Her husband had a criminal record. They alibied each other. Taser probably NOT used in the murder, so somewhere along the way, the plan was changed.

Ransom note obviously composed by John: big ego trip for himself; no profanity or swear words; it's all about HIM. The "Listen Up" also came from a crime movie.

(Did Glenn Meyer do the physical handwriting of the note, perhaps on December 23?)

Anyway, the fact that it was the adult book.... well, no wonder why John Andrew recently lied about that on his Twitter page.

PremeditatedCrime,
That's quite a laundry list of assumptions you have there.

I reckon JAR's suitcase was used to move crime-scene items from upstairs to downstairs.

Otherwise there was no need for JAR's suitcase to go anywhere. It was formerly in his room, JR says he moved it.

Who believes that, like JR was doing housework, yet he employed a housekeeper for that role. Hey Patsy, tell Linda to store that suitcase in the basement, will ya?

JAR is just not a suspect, witness observations and memory recall is subject to a wide margin of error.

IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. Any RDI theory has to account for JonBenet wearing her brothers long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

No way can I see JR or PR dressing JonBenet in those clothes, they are adults so would know full well these clothing items would be a red-flag and would damage any attempt to suggest this is how JonBenet was taken from her bed!

.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. Any RDI theory has to account for JonBenet wearing her brothers long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

No way can I see JR or PR dressing JonBenet in those clothes, they are adults so would know full well these clothing items would be a red-flag and would damage any attempt to suggest this is how JonBenet was taken from her be

"Obviously that would lead the police on a wild goose chase, since John Andrew was in Georgia at the time.

PremeditatedCrime,
That's quite a laundry list of assumptions you have there.

I reckon JAR's suitcase was used to move crime-scene items from upstairs to downstairs.

Otherwise there was no need for JAR's suitcase to go anywhere. It was formerly in his room, JR says he moved it.

Who believes that, like JR was doing housework, yet he employed a housekeeper for that role. Hey Patsy, tell Linda to store that suitcase in the basement, will ya?

JAR is just not a suspect, witness observations and memory recall is subject to a wide margin of error.

IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. Any RDI theory has to account for JonBenet wearing her brothers long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

No way can I see JR or PR dressing JonBenet in those clothes, they are adults so would know full well these clothing items would be a red-flag and would damage any attempt to suggest this is how JonBenet was taken from her bed!

.

As I wrote:
"Obviously that would lead the police on a wild goose chase, since John Andrew was in Georgia at the time.)"

What I stated was that John's motivation was to lead down a wild goose stage, to distract. Obviously, John Andrew is not a viable suspect.

Also, Linda the housekeeper knew about the oversized underwear.

A taser was found in the home of Linda and her husband. I know a taser probably was NOT used in the murder, but why would you have one? Linda and her husband gave no plausible explanation. They alibied each other.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

"IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. "

Are you J

PremeditatedCrime,
That's quite a laundry list of assumptions you have there.

I reckon JAR's suitcase was used to move crime-scene items from upstairs to downstairs.

Otherwise there was no need for JAR's suitcase to go anywhere. It was formerly in his room, JR says he moved it.

Who believes that, like JR was doing housework, yet he employed a housekeeper for that role. Hey Patsy, tell Linda to store that suitcase in the basement, will ya?

JAR is just not a suspect, witness observations and memory recall is subject to a wide margin of error.

IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. Any RDI theory has to account for JonBenet wearing her brothers long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

No way can I see JR or PR dressing JonBenet in those clothes, they are adults so would know full well these clothing items would be a red-flag and would damage any attempt to suggest this is how JonBenet was taken from her bed!

.

"IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario."

Are you JDI - what would be his motive? Why would Patsy go along? (Or maybe I misunderstood your sentence)

 

[icedtea4me]

"IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. "

Are you J


"IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario."

Are you JDI - what would be his motive? Why would Patsy go along? (Or maybe I misunderstood your sentence)

John talking about the murderer [perhaps himself in the third person] in DoI, pg 368: Did his own lusts push him into unexpected actions that left him feeling he had no choice but to kill JonBenet?

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

John talking about the murderer [perhaps himself in the third person] in DoI, pg 368: Did his own lusts push him into unexpected actions that left him feeling he had no choice but to kill JonBenet?

No, it was probably premeditated. Remember that the police found the instructional video of stun gun usage in John's possession. And he lied about when he purchased it; he said back in 1994. But it was traced to 1996, and being purchased at a spy shop.

If so, maybe John gaslighted Patsy into believing that Burke had committed the murder?

By the way, Linda the housekeeper and her husband: police did find a stun gun at their residence. They alibied each other. I do understand that a stun gun was probably not used in the attack, but maybe there was a change of plan somewhere?

I have thought about John hiring Linda and her husband, as I consider it to be premeditated. (Did Glenn Meyer physically handwrite the note? His handwriting was a pretty good match to the ransom note.)

There's no doubt in my mind that John COMPOSED the note - it's a big ego trip to himself. It's all about HIM!

 

[Tadpole12]

Tadpole12,
Do you reckon Patsy or John knew JAR's blanket was semen stained?

Did someone not say that fibers found in the suitcase matched fibers from the wine-cellar?

.

IDK
They could have made the assumption, that different types of JAR's dna would be on the blanket.
But was the blanket used just as a matter of convenience.
The blanket wasn't laundered. And JAR's bed is made.

 

[UKGuy]

"IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. "

Are you J


"IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario."

Are you JDI - what would be his motive? Why would Patsy go along? (Or maybe I misunderstood your sentence)

PremeditatedCrime,
In either BDI or JDI scenario the motivation can be sexual or anger, or a mixture of both.

I'm BDI, but recognize that JDI looks the more probable theory, especially on the sexual assault angle.

As I've mentioned before the case could actually be JDI and BDI, which might explain why the staging had to happen.

My take on it is Childhood Development Gone Wrong combined with Parental Neglect.

Loadsa $$ does that to some folks, because they have the money to sort stuff out, they become indifferent and of course as we all know some problems are so serious they sometimes cannot be fixed.

Think on that phrase about money buying you happiness.

.

 

[UKGuy]

IDK
They could have made the assumption, that different types of JAR's dna would be on the blanket.
But was the blanket used just as a matter of convenience.
The blanket wasn't laundered. And JAR's bed is made.

Tadpole12,
I doubt JAR's blanket means anything as a staging item. Its just artifact in the crime-scene context alike a chair or a cigar box, etc.

Not unless there is cross-transfer of fibers from JAR's blanket to any of JonBenet's clothing?

It could be JAR's bedroom was the original crime-scene, which was then cleaned up, along with Patsy offering a backup story regarding the following days flight preparations, etc?

If you reckon JAR was being injected into the crime-scene as staging, what does JonBenet wearing Burke's long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear mean?

.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

"Not unless there is cross-transfer of fibers from JAR's blanket to any of JonBenet's clothing?"

My understand is that yes, there was. Remember that I believe John framed Patsy, but to a lesser extent Burke and John Andrew.

John Andrew is not a viable suspect, since he was in Atlanta at the time.

"If you reckon JAR was being injected into the crime-scene as staging, what does JonBenet wearing Burke's long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear mean?"

To make the crime look as if it happened in the basement? To suggest that a young man who did not have children committed the crime? (As a parent with young children would know that the underwear did not belong to JB.)

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

PremeditatedCrime,
That's quite a laundry list of assumptions you have there.

I reckon JAR's suitcase was used to move crime-scene items from upstairs to downstairs.

Otherwise there was no need for JAR's suitcase to go anywhere. It was formerly in his room, JR says he moved it.

Who believes that, like JR was doing housework, yet he employed a housekeeper for that role. Hey Patsy, tell Linda to store that suitcase in the basement, will ya?

JAR is just not a suspect, witness observations and memory recall is subject to a wide margin of error.

IMO the case is either JDI or BDI with Patsy helping out in either scenario. Any RDI theory has to account for JonBenet wearing her brothers long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear.

No way can I see JR or PR dressing JonBenet in those clothes, they are adults so would know full well these clothing items would be a red-flag and would damage any attempt to suggest this is how JonBenet was taken from her bed!

.

Yep agree. Wasn’t it literally the same underwear except large, like a bigger pair of Wednesdays? Seems like a literal but silly replacement... that’s smart, the Samsonite suitcase was used to transport items between floors.. what downstairs exactly...most stuff was taken back up? FBI thought it was used to conceal her for a time, or at least was intended to be used that way. Horrible horrible horrible.

tell us more UK guy

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

Tadpole12,
I doubt JAR's blanket means anything as a staging item. Its just artifact in the crime-scene context alike a chair or a cigar box, etc.

Not unless there is cross-transfer of fibers from JAR's blanket to any of JonBenet's clothing?

It could be JAR's bedroom was the original crime-scene, which was then cleaned up, along with Patsy offering a backup story regarding the following days flight preparations, etc?

If you reckon JAR was being injected into the crime-scene as staging, what does JonBenet wearing Burke's long johns and Patsy's niece's size-12 underwear mean?

.

Her bladder emptied near the wine cellar in the boiler room with wooden fragments in the paint caddy suggesting she was strangled and concussed near here. A 9 year old couldn’t carry her downstairs without injury and I don’t believe the parents wouldn’t call 911 if they witnessed an injury that wasn’t fatal.


You privy to the banister of the spiral staircase being wiped down, dark smears in a photo on the crank camera? Poo or blood? Thoughts?
Cutesy photo of JB in the laundry room? photos the police interviewers allude to...

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

Maybe it really was the Seven Godivas. We do know it was an Adult book not Red Fish.

so key, if someone knows investigators ST or JK well, like on a chatty basis, let’s just confirm or not confirm that it’s Oh the Places You’ll Go, as JA tweeted that it was and I’d like to know whether he lyin

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

DeDee,
There really is no way for a ‘young child’ to process sexual abuse. I have never viewed JB as a child who did not possess self worth. I also believe she was groomed and made to feel comfortable. There are different forms of sexual abuse all of which come with different feelings.



It is my understanding that JB had put on makeup and her mom got onto her and told her to go take it off. Your guess is as good as mine why JB was upset.



The odd 911 hang up call and then her murder 2 days later, makes things seem a bit strange. Especially when you know the real 911 call was rehearsed. Why would a mother hang up a lifeline 911 call when she believes her daughter has been kidnapped?

yeah, plus her teachers said she became clingy and showed signs of emotional neglect in the months prior to her passing. She had all these performances even when her parents were in NY she had Nedra cart her off to the parade on the pilots wife’s convertible in the freezing cold. She was over scheduled and not a carefree child. This is so key.

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

Yup I recieved that book

From pg 7 of the autopsy report-

This area of contusion measures 8 inches in length with a width of up to 1.75 inches.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet07.gif

So, the item with which she was struck had to be at least 8 inches long and up to 1 3/4 inches wide.

softball bat, golf club, clay brick, or flashlight?

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

"Rain on my Parade,
Some common sense is required wrt the kitchen as a crime-scene. If it played a role in JonBenet's death then neither John or Patsy were concerned as they forgot all about the kitchen and breakfast-bar leaving the pineapple snack leftovers to remain as in your face evidence that JonBenet snacked pineapple before retiring to her bedroom.

All of which blew their version of events regarding JonBenet out of the water, so really for the residents the pineapple snack was just another domestic event.

Manually choked is sufficient, aided by a shirt collar or not, still leads to JonBenet's death.

We agree on the critical points and main sequencing, any deviation appears theoretical which can assist in fostering debate.


BR's Dr. Bernhardt interview is different from visualizing her head injury as a response to snatching BR's food.

This is because BR's enacts the blows for you, in this instance Disney is not required.

I agree BR seems to know far too much, especially when his parents went to such lengths to state that they shielded him and told him no details surrounding JonBenet's death, as well as moving him out of the house, i.e. Fleet White, at al.

IMO contrary to recieved opinion a case can be made for BDI but not the theory beloved of the media.

It could be everyone involved was influenced by the Colorado Child Statutes to play ball with the Ramsey's and lets say, not investigate matters fully neglecting some due process here and there?

Outcome: Only one child lost.

.

You cracked this... yep. Nice. The question is, why did he do this. Motivations, state of mind, we cannot judge the affect and statements of a neuroatypical kid the same way we analyze everyone else.. it doesn’t even matter does it, it’s just so tragic and horrible.

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

P

Tadpole12,
Yes, it appears JAR's alibi is solid. Even traveling there and back would risk being identified, never mind if it was possible given the constrained time frames.

ST revised his book and theory. BPD had to amend sexual assault to Genital Trauma such were the internal politics playing out between the RST and the investigators on the ground.

The explanation for JonBenet's chronic abuse or Prior Sexual Intrusion as Haney terms it, which I'm adopting is that multiple people were abusing JonBenet.

So its all speculative as some of the anecdotes, e.g. JAR's remarks about JonBenet to his student friends, might all be deliberate internet spin?

The thing is if you want to BR to play a central role in some BDI theory, then how do we account for his behavior, i.e. learned or invented?

.

Please tell us more about STs revised theory. This is important. You watch that Larry king head to head and he’s going after Patsy and Patsy alone, not having a clue what to do with the sexual injuries. Have we talked about grandpa? Thanks so much for your thoughtful explanations.

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

Rain on my Parade,
Drinking from a can is different from drinking from a glass or cup, etc. As you cannot choose where to place your lips for drinking.

A large communal bowl of pineapple, probably prepared and laid out by Patsy and JonBenet gets whacked for taking a slice?

That does not add up for me. If it had been Burke's personal stash of candy, etc then maybe.

Why should Burke be bothered about a slice or two of pineapple when there is a large bowl of pineapple sitting on the table?

It could have happened but as an explanation its like something from a Disney cartoon.

Anyway why was JonBenet not rushed to hospital for medical treatment if Burke had whacked her?

.

Exactly he didn’t whack her he strangled her.