The Elevator Video: What's your take?

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After reading through this entire thread, I'm more confused than ever, but I'm also inclined to believe that her behaviour isn't too odd and that it probably doesn't give any clues. I wouldn't call it a red herring, because that sounds like someone is using her behaviour/the video to get everyone on the wrong track.

Upon my first viewing of the video my instant reaction was drugs but then I remembered that last weekend I hid under a sink in a hotel room just to see if I fit and then I got really comfortable... Her hand gestures are something I might do when bored. Anyone else act out stories that they've made up in their heads? Or peformed 'jedi' moves on automated doors? Sometimes having a rich imagination can look odd to the outside viewers. And if she really did have ADHD... well my brother's been known to make some odd hand gestures in order to 'entertain' himself. With this in mind, to me, it looks like she was waiting for someone and goofying around while she did.

Just to let you know, it seems that the others have abandoned this thread. If no one else responds, that could explain it. I check in here for obvious reason.

Yes, one can certainly view this as Elisa waiting for a friend, and in the meantime having anxiety. But it's important to go beyond mere appearances, which fooled me twice. While we can get different opinions on her bahavior at various points of the video, yet her second bout with the buttons is very revealing because no one, I don't think, would argue well that she looked like was doing anything but trying to get the elevator to work to take her downward. In my opinion, this was one fatal flaw in her actions.

Would you agree that she looks to be trying to get the elevator to work? Can there be any other explanation? When she's done with the bout with the buttons, she walks away disappointed. Is that how you read it?
 
Interesting case wrt the Cecil a couple of years ago. Was googling on Dennis Romero, the reporter who released the 4 min video of Elisa, and stumbled across his report of this 2010 incident wrt an alleged attack at the Cecil Hotel:

In this report, a suspect supposedly fled into the Cecil Hotel:

May 18 2010 from:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2010/05/firefighter_stabbed_downtown.php

The suspect reportedly fled into the nearby Hotel Cecil, with police searching the building floor-by-floor.

In a report dated May 18 2010, the attack supposedly happened inside the Cecil Hotel:

From:

http://www.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/...0:48:24&firstName=Charles&lastName=MacDougall

Fire Department spokesman Richard Matheney says MacDougall and a colleague was treating someone who had fallen ill at the Cecil Hotel when somebody alerted them to a second person who needed help. When they went to check on the condition of that person, an assailant attacked MacDougall and stabbed him in the chest and back.

This report makes reference to security video of the two firefighters in the hotel lobby of the Cecil prior to the alleged attack:

May 24 2010 from:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2010/05/paramedic_story_questions.php

The man had reportedly told police that he and a partner responded to a medical aid call at the hotel when he was attacked. However, according to Fox 11's Chris Blatchford, security video at the hotel showed the pair "milling" around the lobby for 15 minutes before MacDougall headed upstairs alone.
<bbm>

Feb 2 2011 we have:

from:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7936210

Charges will not be filed against a firefighter accused of submitting a false report that he was stabbed at a downtown hotel.

It seems it was hotel security video that raised the red flag in the first place.
 
I've seen that 2010 story referenced a number of times in regards to the EL case. Strange situation, but so completely short on details that it is hard to make much of it. I suppose one could imply that a fireman raped/killed EL using his position of authority, but that would be quite a stretch.
 
I've seen that 2010 story referenced a number of times in regards to the EL case. Strange situation, but so completely short on details that it is hard to make much of it. I suppose one could imply that a fireman raped/killed EL using his position of authority, but that would be quite a stretch.

I wasn't implying that the fireman was involved in Elisa's case, but I don't find it "hard to make much of it". The story was obviously a fabrication in some respects, so it makes one suspicious what goes on in the hotel. Maybe one could imply that, because it was video that brought the fabrication to light, the hotel sought out means/methods to edit/alter video to allay suspicions in future situations.

JMO
 
:seeya: First post on this case. It&#8217;s not something that has had much coverage at all in the UK, but after stumbling across it here I&#8217;m finding myself sucked into it.

FWIW my thoughts below on the elevator video. I don&#8217;t know if this will add anything new or is just going over old ground again and I do have my reservations about reading too much into it without having sight of other evidence to give it fuller context. I suspect that more will become clear when we have a better idea of the cause of death and when/if more information is made public. At the moment we&#8217;re all groping around in the dark a little, but since this is one of the few pieces of the puzzle that we do have, this is what I&#8217;m seeing.

I&#8217;ve heard people use the word &#8220;playful&#8221; to describe her behaviour, but the word that came immediately to my mind was &#8220;mischievous&#8221;- as if she&#8217;s doing something that she knows she shouldn&#8217;t really be doing but is enjoying it anyway.

She enters the elevator and then prior to pressing the buttons you see her first extend her right index finger and bring it around away from her body in a sweeping gesture before quite deliberately pressing a sequence of buttons in a very controlled and methodical way.

The sweeping gesture with her index finger puts me in mind of somebody playing &#8220;eenie meenie miney mo&#8221; or the sort of body language I use when following a list of instructions like following a recipe for the first time &#8211; &#8220;right! Let&#8217;s start with adding some of this.&#8221;

My initial interpretations of this are :

a) She is indeed playing a game with somebody else &#8211; riding up and down, selecting random floors to explore / hide on and generally messing around.
b) She has an idea in her head that a particular series of button pushes will give some sort out of outcome &#8211; open up an otherwise inaccessible floor, reveal some sort of supernatural event, something else that we can only just guess at.

She steps back waiting, but whatever she&#8217;s expecting to happen doesn&#8217;t. Quick peek out the door &#8211; is whoever she&#8217;s playing with coming? Is somebody outside holding the door button to keep it open and preventing the elevator doing what she thought it would?

I see no fear or nervousness at this point. In fact, when she moves back inside first to the side then hiding in the corner by the controls she looks more to me like she&#8217;s waiting to jump out at somebody &#8211; which would work either for a &#8220;hide and seek&#8221; type game or if there was another person fooling around with her and playing at enacting some kind of ghost story / myth type thingy. The video quality is horrible but I think I even see a smile on her face when she&#8217;s stood in that corner and thinking of my own body language again, I&#8217;d be more inclined to wrap my arms around myself or bring them up to my face if I was feeling nervous or afraid rather than hold them down in front of my body as she does.

Then we have another peek around the door and a little jump forward followed by those steps sideways, backwards into the elevator and then out and to the side again.
I personally don&#8217;t see those as a sign of fear or reluctance to turn her back on the corridor (as I've seen suggested). I think what I&#8217;m seeing is her looking into the mirror opposite and repositioning herself to get a clearer view down the corridors while the jump forwards IMO is an attempt to catch a glimpse of somebody in the corridor reflected in the mirror before they duck out of sight. Try standing in front of a large mirror at home and then attempt to position yourself to get particular views of the room behind you &#8211; I found myself making similar sidesteps when looking in the over-mantel mirror and trying to see various parts of the hall through the living room doorway.

It&#8217;s hard to see much at the next point in the video, but in my mind the key to understanding what follows is my belief that she&#8217;s looking into the mirror. She appears to stand there for a bit, with her back to the wall between the elevators &#8211; odd? Maybe, but perhaps not so odd if we accept that she&#8217;s looking in the mirror and watching out for somebody coming up the corridor.

We also have that overhead arm gesture which on my first few viewings I saw as waving an arm / beckoning to somebody. It seems to be exaggerated, but to me making big, bold gestures makes a lot more sense if she&#8217;s beckoning to somebody further away down the corridor via the mirror. On later viewings, I&#8217;ve come to wonder if her arm is up for too long to be waving and if she&#8217;s playing with her hair in the mirror instead . . . although I think maybe I&#8217;ve been influenced by reading other interpretations and if we also accept that the video has been slowed down perhaps her arm isn&#8217;t up for that long after all.

It&#8217;s from this point forward that I believe I see a change in her body language. She re-enters the camera frame with her hands to her head as if she&#8217;s in distress and seems to need to hold the sides of the doors to steady herself momentarily &#8211; a sudden headache, alcohol or medication taking effect and bringing on wooziness, somebody she saw in the mirror that for some reason made her uneasy or shocked . . . I don&#8217;t know but she seems less controlled and less rational from this point on.

I need to watch from this segment onwards a few more times before deciding what I&#8217;m actually seeing, but I&#8217;ll post some more thoughts about what follows later if I think they may add something to the discussion.
 
Very interesting Sarah. I would add poor eyesight to the mix. The first time I saw the video I was struck immediately by how she crouches down to hit the elevator buttons. That does not go along with the initial seemingly confident entry into the elevator. As someone who wears glasses, I would only do that if I could not see the buttons from further back. That would also add to the way she looks at the mirror for so long. She is probably having difficulty making something out in the distance. If you are right, and she is waiting for someone, perhaps she is not sure if the person in the mirror is the right person? Just my thoughts.
 
Thanks BlueShoe.
And the poor eyesight is also a very interesting point. I'd like to know whether the autopsy revealed that she was wearing contact lenses - or indeed whether they would have stayed in her eyes after a period being submerged in water.
 
:seeya: First post on this case. It’s not something that has had much coverage at all in the UK, but after stumbling across it here I’m finding myself sucked into it.

FWIW my thoughts below on the elevator video. I don’t know if this will add anything new or is just going over old ground again and I do have my reservations about reading too much into it without having sight of other evidence to give it fuller context. I suspect that more will become clear when we have a better idea of the cause of death and when/if more information is made public. At the moment we’re all groping around in the dark a little, but since this is one of the few pieces of the puzzle that we do have, this is what I’m seeing.

I’ve heard people use the word “playful” to describe her behaviour, but the word that came immediately to my mind was “mischievous”- as if she’s doing something that she knows she shouldn’t really be doing but is enjoying it anyway.

She enters the elevator and then prior to pressing the buttons you see her first extend her right index finger and bring it around away from her body in a sweeping gesture before quite deliberately pressing a sequence of buttons in a very controlled and methodical way.

The sweeping gesture with her index finger puts me in mind of somebody playing “eenie meenie miney mo” or the sort of body language I use when following a list of instructions like following a recipe for the first time – “right! Let’s start with adding some of this.”

My initial interpretations of this are :

a) She is indeed playing a game with somebody else – riding up and down, selecting random floors to explore / hide on and generally messing around.
b) She has an idea in her head that a particular series of button pushes will give some sort out of outcome – open up an otherwise inaccessible floor, reveal some sort of supernatural event, something else that we can only just guess at.

She steps back waiting, but whatever she’s expecting to happen doesn’t. Quick peek out the door – is whoever she’s playing with coming? Is somebody outside holding the door button to keep it open and preventing the elevator doing what she thought it would?

I see no fear or nervousness at this point. In fact, when she moves back inside first to the side then hiding in the corner by the controls she looks more to me like she’s waiting to jump out at somebody – which would work either for a “hide and seek” type game or if there was another person fooling around with her and playing at enacting some kind of ghost story / myth type thingy. The video quality is horrible but I think I even see a smile on her face when she’s stood in that corner and thinking of my own body language again, I’d be more inclined to wrap my arms around myself or bring them up to my face if I was feeling nervous or afraid rather than hold them down in front of my body as she does.

Then we have another peek around the door and a little jump forward followed by those steps sideways, backwards into the elevator and then out and to the side again.
I personally don’t see those as a sign of fear or reluctance to turn her back on the corridor (as I've seen suggested). I think what I’m seeing is her looking into the mirror opposite and repositioning herself to get a clearer view down the corridors while the jump forwards IMO is an attempt to catch a glimpse of somebody in the corridor reflected in the mirror before they duck out of sight. Try standing in front of a large mirror at home and then attempt to position yourself to get particular views of the room behind you – I found myself making similar sidesteps when looking in the over-mantel mirror and trying to see various parts of the hall through the living room doorway.

It’s hard to see much at the next point in the video, but in my mind the key to understanding what follows is my belief that she’s looking into the mirror. She appears to stand there for a bit, with her back to the wall between the elevators – odd? Maybe, but perhaps not so odd if we accept that she’s looking in the mirror and watching out for somebody coming up the corridor.

We also have that overhead arm gesture which on my first few viewings I saw as waving an arm / beckoning to somebody. It seems to be exaggerated, but to me making big, bold gestures makes a lot more sense if she’s beckoning to somebody further away down the corridor via the mirror. On later viewings, I’ve come to wonder if her arm is up for too long to be waving and if she’s playing with her hair in the mirror instead . . . although I think maybe I’ve been influenced by reading other interpretations and if we also accept that the video has been slowed down perhaps her arm isn’t up for that long after all.

It’s from this point forward that I believe I see a change in her body language. She re-enters the camera frame with her hands to her head as if she’s in distress and seems to need to hold the sides of the doors to steady herself momentarily – a sudden headache, alcohol or medication taking effect and bringing on wooziness, somebody she saw in the mirror that for some reason made her uneasy or shocked . . . I don’t know but she seems less controlled and less rational from this point on.

I need to watch from this segment onwards a few more times before deciding what I’m actually seeing, but I’ll post some more thoughts about what follows later if I think they may add something to the discussion.

I like the "mischievous" assessment, and I think your view throughout is bang-on. She has her hands on the head for 12 seconds elevator-timestamp time, 16 youtube.

I too noticed how she rifles her pointed finger in toward the buttons. She was able to see the buttons sufficiently well to the point of hitting them square, in quick succession. She doesn't seem to struggle to make out the location of any one button. She even jumps a row from the M button and hits the door-hold button with apparent ease. The symbols/images on the close-door button are quite large and could not have escaped her view, I don't think, so my conclusion is that she was determined from the start to press the hold-door button. I don't think she was ignorant of the location of the door-close button. This is an important point in trying to determine her motives in the seemingly strange / inexplicable / contradictory second bout with the buttons, where she seems to be disappointed with a stuck elevator, yet pushes the door-hold button repeatedly.
 
I really don't ever see her talking. It's sort of taken as fact that she does, now that so many people have repeated it. But it's only her arm movements that are indicative of possible conversation, and in my opinion they are more indicative of her being alone and doing strange things... especially if you pay close attention to the way she shifts from one action to the next throughout the whole video. Taken in chunks, it's easy to see fear one moment, conversation the next, etc.

But taken as a sequence, it's as if her actions are guided by a lost, chaotic mind. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else :) The sped-up (real-time) version gives me this impression even more than the original.

And in my opinion, the hand waving motions and hand wringing--or finger bending, not sure--do not look like the body language of a person who is talking, explaining, or being playful with someone else (or fearful). To me it looks like someone who is experiencing strange bodily feelings.

Agree. Like many, I made the mistake too of assuming she was talking when she was making those hand movements. Then lately I realized that at no point does the video show her opening her mouth as if she was talking. There was only a smile that we could see.

When she was doing that waving/patting motions, her face was turned towards the elevator doorway. We can see her face at this point and it is clear that her mouth was not moving.

Then when she did the counting motions on her fingers, her face was turned away. We cannot see whether she was indeed talking at this point.

After watching the video countless times and reading the many varied theories here, I've come to my own conclusion that Elisa's demeanor and composure underwent changes throughout the video. That is why we all see different things, even totally opposite from each other - some see fear, some see playfulness; some see drug-induced stupor while some see deliberate controlled actions.

What I think now is that we all each formed our theory that very well explains a certain segment of the video, and then somehow fitted the other segments of the video to that same theory. So, if we could all objectively look at our own theory from a counter viewpoint, we will find that our theory is good at one part but a little awkward at explaining other parts of the video.

Lol, I think that's the reason why the video has generated endless views and counter views, because there is just no consistency in Elisa's behavior and composure in that video. For myself, I have given up trying to fit it all in one theory. :)
 
What I think now is that we all each formed our theory that very well explains a certain segment of the video, and then somehow fitted the other segments of the video to that same theory. So, if we could all objectively look at our own theory from a counter viewpoint, we will find that our theory is good at one part but a little awkward at explaining other parts of the video.

I absolutely agree. I think one reason that I've watched this so many times is to discover a theory that fits all aspects of the video. Nothing seems to work flawlessly. There are several theories that seem almost right, but each of these has a part I question. Then there is the quality of the video. Parts are distorted, and even the motions of her mouth can not be totally certain. It looks to me as if she says something early on when she seems to be hiding in the corner of the elevator. However, there is a video effect at the same time, so maybe she does not really move her mouth. Even when she is gesturing outside, she could move her mouth slightly and we might not be able to see it. I can't even see the smile even though I know it is there because of a screen capture. I think many of us are thinking of how we would act in a similar situation, or have observed others acting, and you are right, there is little consistency. I started with one theory, but right now I have three or four that all seem equally likely.
 
The video that was redone at time normal speed gave me a different take on what Elisa may have been doing.

She comes in and presses the buttons in a certain sequence. Then goes to the back corner in a normal fashion as if expecting something to happen. When it doesn't she quickly peeks out to see if someone is holding the elevator up with the outside button. Then she hides in the elevator inside corner (I think) to try to catch someone holding the outside button that she thinks is pressing the button then hiding. When she step out, it looks like she is listening to someone tell her she did it wrong (raises her hands over her head, then brings them down as she walks in as if OK, I will try this again-she does look like she is not wearing any kind of corrective eyewear, so gets close to the buttons). She goes back in and purposefully presses the sequence of buttons 3 times. (She does not wait because at this point she thinks the person she is talking to is BSing her). Walks back out, says she did everything she was told (hand to her chest, as if saying "I did just what you said.") starts waving her hands around as if saying "Yes, I did that, yes, I did that." waves her hands in in a wrapping up gesture (brings the hands up and flips then around) as if saying "I did all that." Then she starts counting on her fingers, as if saying "Look, I did this, I tried that, and I did not get the result you were talking about.". Then she listens for a bit, puts up at least her right hand to her head or neck and turns and walks away (as if saying "Yeah, whatever." Maybe the hand went up perpendicular to her face, in a gesture of dismissal).

If she wasn't speaking to herself or a ghost, it looks to me like someone told her pressing a certain sequence of buttons would result in something specific (as others have said), it didn't happen, the person who told her that appeared to her at some point in the sequence of events, and she told that person that she tried everything that was told to her and it didn't work, then walked off.

The time normal speed has a completely different look than the slower version, IMO.
 
The video that was redone at time normal speed gave me a different take on what Elisa may have been doing.

She comes in and presses the buttons in a certain sequence. Then goes to the back corner in a normal fashion as if expecting something to happen. When it doesn't she quickly peeks out to see if someone is holding the elevator up with the outside button. Then she hides in the elevator inside corner (I think) to try to catch someone holding the outside button that she thinks is pressing the button then hiding. When she step out, it looks like she is listening to someone tell her she did it wrong (raises her hands over her head, then brings them down as she walks in as if OK, I will try this again-she does look like she is not wearing any kind of corrective eyewear, so gets close to the buttons). She goes back in and purposefully presses the sequence of buttons 3 times. (She does not wait because at this point she thinks the person she is talking to is BSing her). Walks back out, says she did everything she was told (hand to her chest, as if saying "I did just what you said.") starts waving her hands around as if saying "Yes, I did that, yes, I did that." waves her hands in in a wrapping up gesture (brings the hands up and flips then around) as if saying "I did all that." Then she starts counting on her fingers, as if saying "Look, I did this, I tried that, and I did not get the result you were talking about.". Then she listens for a bit, puts up at least her right hand to her head or neck and turns and walks away (as if saying "Yeah, whatever." Maybe the hand went up perpendicular to her face, in a gesture of dismissal).

If she wasn't speaking to herself or a ghost, it looks to me like someone told her pressing a certain sequence of buttons would result in something specific (as others have said), it didn't happen, the person who told her that appeared to her at some point in the sequence of events, and she told that person that she tried everything that was told to her and it didn't work, then walked off.

The time normal speed has a completely different look than the slower version, IMO.

Your interpretation seems very plausible to me. It also clicks with something else I've wondered but keep forgetting to bring up - do we know if there was a manual override that would keep the elevator from running? Either perhaps on the floor she was on or somewhere else (maybe with access to see what was happening via security camera)?

I can see your explanation fitting with this. "We need to reset the elevator, can you help press these buttons?" and she complies and it doesn't work, so she goes off to the stairs perhaps, where someone waits to grab her?

Completely my own opinion and speculation.
 
Most elevators have a service mode that requires a key to override the buttons and calls for the car from other floors.

We did discuss earlier (this thread?) that the pressing of buttons in some combination does certain things and it seems more urban myth than reality but that's not really important if it's myth or reality. All that matters is if Elisa believed it.
 
Most elevators have a service mode that requires a key to override the buttons and calls for the car from other floors.

We did discuss earlier (this thread?) that the pressing of buttons in some combination does certain things and it seems more urban myth than reality but that's not really important if it's myth or reality. All that matters is if Elisa believed it.

That's what I'm thinking of, the key. I don't want to suggest it was any one person in particular, but someone with authorized or unauthorized access to a key could play a role in the exchange.

I saw the button combination posts, and with the (mis)information that goes around Tumblr (I've spent my share of time there goofing around) and knowing Elisa was on the site, I can see her having read something like that.
 
Most elevators have a service mode that requires a key to override the buttons and calls for the car from other floors.

We did discuss earlier (this thread?) that the pressing of buttons in some combination does certain things and it seems more urban myth than reality but that's not really important if it's myth or reality. All that matters is if Elisa believed it.

Thanks for that reminder that what she perceived was the right combo determines her reaction, so while totally weird to us was completely logical to her.

Do we know that the other elevator was operational when this footage was taken? Someone mentioned the first thing to do would be to get to the lobby pronto. Would that be so easy if you were essentially at the top floor or near it in a hotel? Not so much if someone could use a combo of stairs and the elevator to try and catch up with you. They are expecting to find her somewhere on the way down but she felt safest where she was because the would be focusing on floors below. Her tentative checks in the hall would be a way to see if some one was coming and she could jump back on then head down to her room or the lobby.

This is full of holes I am sure but the bigger question is her early behavior because she felt trapped on the upper floors? I am thinking that she was not in fear for her life at this point but maybe creeped out by some one who seemed to pop up a lot around her or just trying to avoid this person?
 
That's what I'm thinking of, the key. I don't want to suggest it was any one person in particular, but someone with authorized or unauthorized access to a key could play a role in the exchange.

I saw the button combination posts, and with the (mis)information that goes around Tumblr (I've spent my share of time there goofing around) and knowing Elisa was on the site, I can see her having read something like that.

Funny you say that as the police reported to the Vancouver Sun that a fire alarm key was crucial to this case. The roof door that our news reports as locked with an alarm is actually open due to LA fire code. However, an alarm is supposed to sound if someone does use that door; a special key is needed to disable the alarm. Police are wondering who had access to that fire door alarm key.
 
That is what i stated right off the bat here . The LE need to be finding out who has or could steel a key ..The key is the awnser to who done this ..So not to sound funny but in essence the key is the key...lol
 
That's what I'm thinking of, the key. I don't want to suggest it was any one person in particular, but someone with authorized or unauthorized access to a key could play a role in the exchange.

I saw the button combination posts, and with the (mis)information that goes around Tumblr (I've spent my share of time there goofing around) and knowing Elisa was on the site, I can see her having read something like that.
BBM: I cannot tell you how many times people I know tell me something they read on Tumblr is factual, when it is ridiculously untrue (I redirect them to Snopes.com). I can certainly see something being read on Tumblr about the button sequence and thinking it was true.
 
Funny you say that as the police reported to the Vancouver Sun that a fire alarm key was crucial to this case. The roof door that our news reports as locked with an alarm is actually open due to LA fire code. However, an alarm is supposed to sound if someone does use that door; a special key is needed to disable the alarm. Police are wondering who had access to that fire door alarm key.
BBM: was it confirmed that this alarm was in working order? Or did someone affiliated with the hotel just say it was supposed to sound an alarm? I didn't see that in these threads, but I may have missed it. I ask for two reasons: I was in a more modern hotel when the fire alarm went off (it was an error). They stopped the fire alarm, but all the fire doors had automatically closed. So door that would normally sound the alarm, did not for the rest of the evening. When I asked, I was told that the reset had to go through a special sequence, and the manager wasn't there. In this case, a previous false alarm left the doors without alarms.

The second reason I ask, it that in older buildings, the wiring isn't always the best, and if the door hadn't been checked recently, the alarm just may not have been in working order, but no one knew it.
 
BBM: I cannot tell you how many times people I know tell me something they read on Tumblr is factual, when it is ridiculously untrue (I redirect them to Snopes.com). I can certainly see something being read on Tumblr about the button sequence and thinking it was true.

I'm almost positive I originally saw a post like that go around Tumblr. I have elevators in my building and I've thought to try it out but I hate the idea of getting stuck and having to confess what I was doing to our nice maintenance crew. I've googled though and I can't find a version of it on Tumblr currently, so I can't back this claim up with any fact!

I would try it somewhere less likely to bring me a "rep" though. And I'm a good dozen years older than Elisa and very very skeptic. ;)
 
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