The Fall Of Kabul To The Taliban #2

[ringbearer]

Excerpts from the actual call, which took place on JULY 23RD (!!) from the link in the reuters article:

"GHANI: Of course, Mr. President, such a pleasure to hear your voice.

BIDEN: You know, I am a moment late. But I mean it sincerely. Hey look, I want to make it clear that I am not a military man any more than you are, but I have been meeting with our Pentagon folks, and our national security people, as you have with ours and yours, and as you know and I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things aren’t going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban. And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture."

Excerpts of call between Joe Biden and Ashraf Ghani July 23

Holy moly, I hope the leaker is in a titanium bunker somewhere. jmo

 

[shotgun09]

Excerpts from the actual call, which took place on JULY 23RD (!!) from the link in the reuters article:

"GHANI: Of course, Mr. President, such a pleasure to hear your voice.

BIDEN: You know, I am a moment late. But I mean it sincerely. Hey look, I want to make it clear that I am not a military man any more than you are, but I have been meeting with our Pentagon folks, and our national security people, as you have with ours and yours, and as you know and I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things aren’t going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban. And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture."

Excerpts of call between Joe Biden and Ashraf Ghani July 23

Holy moly, I hope the leaker is in a titanium bunker somewhere. jmo

I also question if NATO and our Allies were informed of this conversation...and the seemingly desperate plea from Ghani describing the dire and dangerous situation as it was.

 

[otto]

Following up on lithium in Afghanistan, apparently it's very old news from our friends at the NYT. Stunning.

U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan (Published 2010)

From the link:

The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan, far beyond any previously known reserves and enough to fundamentally alter the Afghan economy and perhaps the Afghan war itself, according to senior American government officials.

The previously unknown deposits including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe.

That explains China's interest in Afghanistan. I'm guessing China intends to buy up the land where the minerals are abundant, and in exchange create jobs. Meanwhile, the Taliban seem to lack skills. I wonder what the average education level is in the Taliban.

“With the U.S. withdrawal, Beijing can offer what Kabul needs most: political impartiality and economic investment,” Zhou Bo, who was a senior colonel in the People’s Liberation Army from 2003 to 2020, wrote in an op-ed in the New York Times over the weekend. “Afghanistan in turn has what China most prizes: opportunities in infrastructure and industry building -- areas in which China’s capabilities are arguably unmatched -- and access to $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits.
...

The U.S. maintains sanctions on the Taliban as an entity, and it can veto any moves by China and Russia to ease United Nations Security Council restrictions on the militant group.
...

But not many are optimistic. Reports have emerged of targeted killings, a massacre of ethnic minorities, violent suppression of protests and Taliban soldiers demanding to marry local women.

“Everyone’s just in crisis mode,” said Sarah Wahedi, a 26-year-old tech entrepreneur from Afghanistan who recently fled the country. “I don’t see the entrepreneurs getting back to business unless there’s a huge overhaul in the Taliban’s behavior. And there’s nothing I’ve seen that makes me think that’s going to happen.”
​

Aug 24, 2021
China Eyes Afghanistan’s $1 Trillion of Minerals With Risky Bet on Taliban

 

[otto]

Regarding education level of the Taliban, it seems to be limited to religious indoctrination of children, and learning military activities. I wonder whether a group is set aside for suicide bombing education. Regardless, it's not surprising that the Taliban are unable to manage government or run a country without foreign oversight.

"Human Rights Watch interviewed relatives of 13 children recruited as Taliban soldiers over the past year, and verified these claims through interviews with civil society activists, political analysts, and the United Nations. Despite Taliban claims that they only enlist fighters who have achieved “mental and physical maturity,” and do not use “boys with no beards” in military operations, some of the children recruited from madrasas in Kunduz, Takhar, and Badakhshan provinces are 13 or younger. The Taliban have previously denied “the use of children and adolescents in Jihadic Operations,” but its deployment of individuals under the age of 18 violates international law applicable in Afghanistan and in cases involving children under 15 is a war crime.
...

The Taliban recruit and train children in age-specific stages. Boys begin indoctrination as young as six years old, and continue to study religious subjects under Taliban teachers for up to seven years. According to relatives of boys recruited by the Taliban, by the time they are 13, Taliban-educated children have learned military skills including use of firearms, and the production and deployment of IEDs. Taliban teachers then introduce those trained child soldiers to specific Taliban groups in that district.
​

February 17, 2016
Human Rights Watch
Afghanistan: Taliban Child Soldier Recruitment Surges

 

[shotgun09]

Effort underway to rescue girls soccer team from Afghanistan

Effort underway to rescue girls soccer team from Afghanistan
By ALEX SANZ and TAMMY WEBBER

An international effort to evacuate members of the Afghanistan national girls soccer team, along with dozens of family members and soccer federation staff, suffered a crushing setback last week after a suicide bombing at the Kabul airport killed 169 Afghans and 13 U.S. service members during a harrowing airlift.

Now, frightened and desperate, the girls worry whether a far-flung coalition of former U.S. military and intelligence officials, congressmen, U.S. allies, humanitarian groups and the captain of the Afghanistan women’s national team can get them and their loved ones to safety.

The Taliban have tried to present a new image, promising amnesty to former opponents and saying they would form an inclusive government. Many Afghans don’t trust those promises, fearing the Taliban will quickly resort to the brutal tactics of their 1996-2001 rule, including barring girls and women from schools and jobs.

There have been at least five failed attempts to rescue the girls in recent days, as they were moved around for their safety, McCreary and Muhtaj said. They were “footsteps from freedom” when the suicide bombing occurred, Muhtaj said.

McCreary said the rescue team feels personally responsible because the U.S. helped the girls go to school and play soccer.

“We need to protect them now,” he said. “They should not be in harm’s way for things that we helped them do.”

 

[worldwatcher]

Guess The Netherlands are searching for alternatives for evacuation of Dutch people left behind in Afghanistan:

"The Netherlands wants to help Turkey and Qatar with the reopening of the airport in the Afghan capital Kabul. The government has pledged 1 million euros for this. That money will be spent on 'technical assistance'.

This was announced by minister Sigrid Kaag (Foreign Affairs), who is currently visiting the Turkish capital Ankara. It is not yet the intention that Dutch technicians travel to Kabul, but that is not ruled out either. A spokesperson for Kaag reports that it will first be investigated what is needed."

Nederland steekt 1 miljoen euro in heropening vliegveld Kabul

Also (again) a lot of talk about this:
Wake-up call? Afghanistan highlights need for 'autonomous' EU military force

^It is nothing new, it was mentioned decades ago, but maybe, - now it's more then words..?!

 

[shotgun09]

'Hunger Games' Evacuations as US Left Afghanistan
By Patsy Widakuswara, Carla Babb

'Hunger Games' Evacuations as US Left Afghanistan


"No nation, no nation has ever done anything like it in all of history," said President Joe Biden from the White House on Tuesday, the day the U.S. completed its Afghan military withdrawal.

The administration has said the massive airlift evacuated most of the remaining Americans in the country, as well as thousands of Afghan interpreters, activists, journalists and other groups that have been targeted by the Taliban.

But thousands of others are left behind. Frustrated U.S. diplomats, military officials and civilian personnel involved in the effort tell VOA it was a haphazard process that left out many people who qualified for evacuation.


'Americans first' policy

"American citizens and U.S. permanent legal residents were prioritized for evacuation, but an American source on the ground who spoke to VOA on the condition of anonymity said the process of determining who was eligible to board a flight was totally disorganized."

"However aid groups which were involved say despite the massive effort by diplomats and soldiers, the airlift was plagued by problems."

"There appears to be at best very problematic and at worst no rhyme or reason for who's getting into the gates," said Mark Jacobson, who helped organize evacuees. Jacobson served in 2006 in Afghanistan as a naval intelligence officer and from 2009-2011 as the deputy NATO representative and deputy political adviser at the International Security Assistance Force."

"For those of us who are helping to get Afghans out, it does certainly appear as though the SOP (standard operating procedure) doesn't just change day to day but hour to hour," Jacobson said.

Jacobson said the inconsistencies were partly due to the multiple departments involved.

"When we get to our State people, they say it's DOD. When we get to the DOD people they say it's State," Jacobson said referring to departments of State and Defense.

VOA asked the White House whether inconsistent policies and a lack of coordination between the State Department and the Pentagon resulted in vulnerable Afghans left behind while those who were not at-risk individuals were evacuated.

"I have no confirmation of what you've just outlined," said White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. "What I will tell you is that 117,000, approximately -- many of them Afghans who -- people who are not American citizens -- were evacuated. That's more people than ever in any airlift in U.S. history."

 

[worldwatcher]

Sept 2 (Reuters) - Taliban forces and fighters loyal to local leader Ahmad Massoud, fought in Afghanistan's Panjshir Valley on Thursday, with each side saying it had inflicted heavy casualties in recent days of combat in the last province resisting Taliban rule.

Afghan rebels and Taliban claim heavy casualties in fighting over valley

 

[worldwatcher]

Regarding education level of the Taliban, it seems to be limited to religious indoctrination of children, and learning military activities. I wonder whether a group is set aside for suicide bombing education. Regardless, it's not surprising that the Taliban are unable to manage government or run a country without foreign oversight.

"Human Rights Watch interviewed relatives of 13 children recruited as Taliban soldiers over the past year, and verified these claims through interviews with civil society activists, political analysts, and the United Nations. Despite Taliban claims that they only enlist fighters who have achieved “mental and physical maturity,” and do not use “boys with no beards” in military operations, some of the children recruited from madrasas in Kunduz, Takhar, and Badakhshan provinces are 13 or younger. The Taliban have previously denied “the use of children and adolescents in Jihadic Operations,” but its deployment of individuals under the age of 18 violates international law applicable in Afghanistan and in cases involving children under 15 is a war crime.
...

The Taliban recruit and train children in age-specific stages. Boys begin indoctrination as young as six years old, and continue to study religious subjects under Taliban teachers for up to seven years. According to relatives of boys recruited by the Taliban, by the time they are 13, Taliban-educated children have learned military skills including use of firearms, and the production and deployment of IEDs. Taliban teachers then introduce those trained child soldiers to specific Taliban groups in that district.
​

February 17, 2016
Human Rights Watch
Afghanistan: Taliban Child Soldier Recruitment Surges

That is awful, words fail me to describe, how I feel when reading this..

 

[cujenn81]

Biden said in his statement yesterday that the USA advised everyone in March 2021 that if they wanted to leave the country, that was the time to do it via commercial flights. I was surprised by that, since discussions about withdrawal occurred later in April, June, July and finally, a public announcement about withdrawal in August. It can't be easy to leave home and country, and after 20 years of occupation it perhaps seemed unthinkable that the Taliban would be allowed to roam the streets of Kabul with automatic weapons supplied by the USA.

I know that Canadian military were upset that the government made it so difficult for Afghani translators to complete immigration documents. Military was panicking about their Afghan friends and colleagues a few weeks before the Taliban arrived in Kabul.

The Interpreters the U.S. Left Behind in Afghanistan

This was a really enlightening (but extremely sad) episode about the Afghan interpreters left behind. The NY Times interviews and keeps in touch with several interpreters in the days leading up August 31, as they try to obtain the necessary documents to exit the country.

 

[Arkay]

The Taliban recruit and train children in age-specific stages. Boys begin indoctrination as young as six years old, and continue to study religious subjects under Taliban teachers for up to seven years. According to relatives of boys recruited by the Taliban, by the time they are 13, Taliban-educated children have learned military skills including use of firearms, and the production and deployment of IEDs. Taliban teachers then introduce those trained child soldiers to specific Taliban groups in that district.

Yes, and the girls are not educated at all. Their purpose is to marry as soon as they menstruate, so they can bear an infinite amount of children. Often they are one of the four wives permitted to the men.
Not only is their purpose simply to please the men and to procreate, but if the females were educated, they would learn about the larger world outside. That not everyone is a Muslim, that women in other lands have freedom and independence, that not every country publicly beats and executes those who aren't criminals but who disobey the rules.

North Korea has the same mentality as far as torturing those who break the rules, although the religion there is the Kim family. The women there are as "free" as the men, which is not free at all. I mention this because they also are not allowed to get news from the outside world, just like the Taliban would have it, because it's imperative that they think their way is THE way.

The females in Afghanistan who are young are going to have to relinquish the freedoms they had grown accustomed to, and I ache for them. I do believe though that many of the men have all along hated Westerners and as another poster said, just went where the money was.
JMO.

 

[shotgun09]

BETHESDA, Md. (FOX 5 DC) - Fifteen U.S. Marines are being treated at Walter Reed Medical Center for injuries sustained in the Aug. 26 airport bombings in Kabul.

According to Marine spokesperson Maj. Jim Stenger, of those 15 wounded, one is in critical condition, three are in serious condition, and 11 are in stable condition.

Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger and Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Troy Black visited many of the Marines in the hospital on Monday and Tuesday, Maj. Stenger said in a written statement.

In an effort to protect their privacy, officials are not providing any specific details about the personnel who are injured.

15 Marines being treated at Walter Reed following Kabul airport attack

 

[cujenn81]

@ringbearer and @BeachSky

Thank you for your suggestions about the 9/11 documentaries. I do think it is critical for us to remember precisely what happened that day, particularly now that the Taliban is in control again and will shelter Al-Qaeda as they did before.

I’m more of a reader than a TV or movie person, and I don’t have Hulu or Netflix.
I don’t love everything about CNN, but they are running some 9/11 documentaries this Sunday, and one of them is IMO a must-see. It’s the documentary by the Naudet brothers who were just filming a rookie firefighter, and accidentally caught the first plane attack. The only picture/video of the first plane, I believe. After that the documentary captures what it was like that day here in NYC and in Washington D.C.

If anyone here is more inclined to read books, IMO two of the best are 102 Minutes: the Fight for Survival Inside the Twin Towers, and also The Only Plane in the Sky: An Oral History of 9/11. If I recall correctly, that book included the woman who was burned by jet fuel at the bus stop and died a month later.

We would be remembering 9/11 now anyway, but this disaster in Afghanistan right now at the 20th anniversary makes it all the more important that we grasp what has happened, and the implications for the future.

I second your recommendation of 102 Minutes!

 

[otto]

Boris Johnson likely speaks for many countries.

"Mr Johnson said: 'It's been clear for many months that the situation could go very fast and that has been in part of the intelligence briefings.

'There have also been suggestions, as you know, that the Afghan national defence force might hold on for longer. 'But logically you can see what happens: Once people in the Afghan Army felt they were no longer going to be getting the American air cover then the logic for them became really to end their resistance and so things did go faster.'

Mr Johnson's critique of the US came after Ben Wallace suggested that the abrupt abandonment of Afghanistan and thousands of allies left on the ground, meant America was no longer a superpower.

In remarks that show how frayed the so-called 'special relationship' with Washington has become in recent weeks, he told the Spectator magazine: 'It is obvious that Britain is not a superpower.

'But a superpower that is also not prepared to stick at something isn't probably a superpower either. It is certainly not a global force, it's just a big power.'
​

Taliban display suicide vests and IEDs in weapon parade on Afghan state TV | Daily Mail Online

 

[shotgun09]

Boris Johnson likely speaks for many countries.

"Mr Johnson said: 'It's been clear for many months that the situation could go very fast and that has been in part of the intelligence briefings.

'There have also been suggestions, as you know, that the Afghan national defence force might hold on for longer. 'But logically you can see what happens: Once people in the Afghan Army felt they were no longer going to be getting the American air cover then the logic for them became really to end their resistance and so things did go faster.'

Mr Johnson's critique of the US came after Ben Wallace suggested that the abrupt abandonment of Afghanistan and thousands of allies left on the ground, meant America was no longer a superpower.

In remarks that show how frayed the so-called 'special relationship' with Washington has become in recent weeks, he told the Spectator magazine: 'It is obvious that Britain is not a superpower.

'But a superpower that is also not prepared to stick at something isn't probably a superpower either. It is certainly not a global force, it's just a big power.'
​

Taliban display suicide vests and IEDs in weapon parade on Afghan state TV | Daily Mail Online

Ouch!!! That's probably going to leave a mark!

 

[sds71]

'Pen Farthing brought our son's dog home to us after he was killed by Taliban'


Conrad Lewis | ParaData

 

[ringbearer]

Has anyone seen videos of Americans returning home after being evacuated from Afghanistan? Seems like the media would be all over that to support the claims of how many were evacuated. I haven't seen any at all. Seems very weird. jmo

 

[ringbearer]

'Pen Farthing brought our son's dog home to us after he was killed by Taliban'


Conrad Lewis | ParaData

I can't even with the innocent animals. But thanks for posting. I feel like it is a great personal weakness and failing of mine that I'm so unable to handle animal cruelty that I can't do my part other than to take good care of my own personal rescue animals. I can't even go to the shelter to get them. I have to have them sent to me. Thank you for being stronger <3

 

[neesaki]

Excerpts from the actual call, which took place on JULY 23RD (!!) from the link in the reuters article:

"GHANI: Of course, Mr. President, such a pleasure to hear your voice.

BIDEN: You know, I am a moment late. But I mean it sincerely. Hey look, I want to make it clear that I am not a military man any more than you are, but I have been meeting with our Pentagon folks, and our national security people, as you have with ours and yours, and as you know and I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things aren’t going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban. And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture."

Excerpts of call between Joe Biden and Ashraf Ghani July 23

Holy moly, I hope the leaker is in a titanium bunker somewhere. jmo

Unbelievable.

 

[Dawookie]

I know of about half a dozen Marines that were lifers and are submitting their resignations. Sadly, they are exactly what we need in the military and now they will be gone. They will be ok and go to work for contractors for Five times the pay. I am in a LE family as well and many LE, the good guys are leaving.

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of long term Marines leaving after what happened to Lt Colonel Scheller. Him being relieved of command for stating the truth shows that the higher ups won't and will not hold each other accountable for their roles in this debacle. The fact they made him get a mental health evaluation shows just how far the supposed senior leadership of the military will go to avoid being held accountable for their decisions.