Anna, if that was the explanation you would think that one of those people in that house that day would have stepped forward and said "hey guys, you know I had a cup of tea that day". And who knows, maybe the told John or Patsy who in turn told their lawyers who then said "never mention it again". It wouldn't surprise me in the least as my faith in people has been greatly tested while researching the people involved in this case.
The Importance of the Pineapple
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3- Latest: Charlot123
Anna, if that was the explanation you would think that one of those people in that house that day would have stepped forward and said "hey guys, you know I had a cup of tea that day". And who knows, maybe the told John or Patsy who in turn told their lawyers who then said "never mention it again". It wouldn't surprise me in the least as my faith in people has been greatly tested while researching the people involved in this case.
If iced tea was a beverage frequently made in r kitchen then they must have had a system. For example the add 30 seconds option on microwaves. If one heats a drinking glass of water to hot and adds ice immediately the glass will crack, however if warmed it will not crack when ice is added. If they had a water dispenser with both hot and cold they may have poured half hot and cold to create the proper temperature of their liking to the glass. If not I think they simply used a microwave.
Armchair2,
Lots of requirements to make iced tea seem at odds with the way children behave, never mind late at night.
I think the iced-tea idea came from JR, maybe he had an agenda here, a bit like Lou Smit and his Stungun theory, they offer alternatives to the truth, plausible alternatives, but like the march hare they send you running down multiple holes.
Patsy in an interview said Burke was the resident tea drinker, so I have always assumed Burke drank tea that night from a mug, and placed the used teabag in the glass. The mug could have then been left anywhere in the house or collected and washed by the helpers that morning?
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All this talk of ice tea :shame:
We obviously have a lazy person here. They don't throw out the teabag and they don't put the pineapple back in the fridge. So where is the sugar? They just decided to put that away for some reason?
One thing that I am surprised has never been discussed, especially given the consensus that Patsy was likely up all night, is the fact that tea bags are commonly used to get rid of puffiness and dark circles under the eyes. Patsy, a former Ms America contestant would certainly been aware of these kinds of beauty quick fixes.
Not saying it happened but you never know.
We obviously have a lazy person here. They don't throw out the teabag and they don't put the pineapple back in the fridge. So where is the sugar? They just decided to put that away for some reason?
One thing that I am surprised has never been discussed, especially given the consensus that Patsy was likely up all night, is the fact that tea bags are commonly used to get rid of puffiness and dark circles under the eyes. Patsy, a former Ms America contestant would certainly been aware of these kinds of beauty quick fixes.
Not saying it happened but you never know.
I know John says ice tea, but I think it's important to remember what Patsy said herself, which is actually strange but fits in with your own theory.
source
I find 'ice tea' by John to be the reasonable explanation. Something someone would guess naturally. But Patsy's claim of it just being some tea bag there, makes it sound more like she is pretending she has no idea what it is OR she knows the glass didn't ever have tea in it, hot or cold. So it's possible she used it on her eyes, and it's possible someone made tea like herself, and put the used bag in a glass... before things went downhill that night with the events that led to JBR's death.
Tea doesn't usually diffuse too well in cold water. At least not black tea like lipton.
andreww, the R's completely distanced themselves from every aspect of that setup. From the pineapple, to the very bowl it was in. If someone then went back on that story and said, "oh yeah I was there when these things were out". It would send up red flags for investigators. The R's lawyered up faster than you can say "reasonable doubt". One thing I'm sure the lawyers emphasized is not to change their stories. Or at least not to volunteer more info than necessary about key points in the case, which this was (the "bugaboo").
andreww, the R's completely distanced themselves from every aspect of that setup. From the pineapple, to the very bowl it was in. If someone then went back on that story and said, "oh yeah I was there when these things were out". It would send up red flags for investigators. The R's lawyered up faster than you can say "reasonable doubt". One thing I'm sure the lawyers emphasized is not to change their stories. Or at least not to volunteer more info than necessary about key points in the case, which this was (the "bugaboo").
webweaved
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Hi, long time follower!
I don't always comment but I enjoy reading what each of you have to say. On the tea bag issue...I'm from Atlanta, lived right around the corner from the Ramseys when Patsy was still alive. They've been long gone forever now. Aside from that, regarding tea and "Southerners" - we have no idea if the tea had been heated up and then a bag dropped into it. A southern thing here in GA is for people to drink hot tea at night...fill a cup of water, warm in microwave because its fast and toss a tea bag in there. 1 cup steeps quick. Instant tea. Now at night, it's mostly herbal teas people drink...tummy tamers, Chamomile (popular for sleeping) - things like that. There is no way to tell what type of tea bag was in THEIR cup unless it was bagged and tested by LE's lab. To my knowledge they did not test it or release that information. Correct me if I am wrong on that. Since there was no brand tag hanging down the side of the cup attached to the tea bag, it's anyone's guess as to what kind it is! In knowing what TYPE of tea bag that was, it might tell us who drank it. Most kids can't stand the taste of herbal teas..some really are nasty in taste!! If it was a normal black tea bag used by say...Lipton, Tetley, (the kind you make a batch of sweet tea from and pour to pitcher) then I would imagine any single one of the Ramsey's could have drank that. Tea at night is a widely popular southern thing and they (esp Patsy) seemed well in touch with their southern roots! JMO. Thanks for reading.Hi, long time follower!
Thanks for the southerner style info.
Hey, as someone who lived right by them, what was your own gut instinct on the case? I know it's not evidence and just one person's opinion, but I'm interested to know. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi, long time follower!
Thank you for that information, webweaved! You are correct that LE did not test anything inside the glass, including saliva, only fingerprints on the glass and bowl. There was a tag that hung from the back of the glass, but no one here has been able to identify the brand of tea by the tag (I don't know if LE is aware of the brand of tea or not). Maybe you can recognize it?
It appears to be dark green or black in color with plenty of white lettering and a white border. I've tried researching tea bag designs but can't identify it.
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My first tought is Twinings, which makes me think someone brewed a cup of hot tea and discarded the bag in a dirty glass. Patsy was not, by most accounts, the tidiest housekeeper.
I will see if I can find a Twinings tag that might fit the bill..I am thinking from the length of the words on the tag that we are looking for Irish or English Breakfast Tea.
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Just a few images that might be a match.
*note: green tags might appear much darker in a photo that is poorly lit. And the last pic is of the envelope, not the tag, but I could imagine the tag would have similar graphics.
Again, I do not think the children were trying to make iced tea, but rather that an adult made a cup of hot tea and discarded the used bag in a dirty glass that was left out. Just my gut feeling on that.
If this tag is the sort of tea I think it is, it would not be the sort typically used for making iced tea...but I can see how a child would not necessarily know that.
*note: green tags might appear much darker in a photo that is poorly lit. And the last pic is of the envelope, not the tag, but I could imagine the tag would have similar graphics.
Again, I do not think the children were trying to make iced tea, but rather that an adult made a cup of hot tea and discarded the used bag in a dirty glass that was left out. Just my gut feeling on that.
If this tag is the sort of tea I think it is, it would not be the sort typically used for making iced tea...but I can see how a child would not necessarily know that.
webweaved
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thanks for the southerner style info.
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jmo. Rdi.
webweaved
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Just a few images that might be a match.
*note: green tags might appear much darker in a photo that is poorly lit. And the last pic is of the envelope, not the tag, but I could imagine the tag would have similar graphics.
Again, I do not think the children were trying to make iced tea, but rather that an adult made a cup of hot tea and discarded the used bag in a dirty glass that was left out. Just my gut feeling on that.
If this tag is the sort of tea I think it is, it would not be the sort typically used for making iced tea...but I can see how a child would not necessarily know that.
Exactly. Something like this! The tea companies that arent your typical "cold brew tea" companies have these long worded tea bags--sometimes with quirky sayings or fortunes. Twinings, Celestial...good job on the photos.
Thanks for searching that up. If you look at the tea bag photos on ACandyRose's site, one side of the bag is all white and the other side is that (what looks like dark green) - tag design could have changed over the years.I know the tea doesn't solve the case but I will always be curious as to each family members movements that night into early morning. Who was sitting there?Were they drinking some stress relief tea?? LOL You know..you just want to know all the answers! After all these years! You just never know your neighbors do you...This case will always bother me. They were odd...before, during, after. JMO. I can't really explain what exactly it was about them. After all these years I still can't explain it. They bounced in and out of ATL before and after JB died. The puzzling ignorant thing about these people was you know the neighborhood is VERY nice and upscale so you need to utilize your alarm system. The homes are big, your eyes and ears can't be everywhere so the alarm is a safe guard. I guess they never turned it on because even post death once they moved back to ATL, they had some problems here. A break in and confrontation. JR scuffed with an intruder. The story was weird. I'm sure that LE report is floating around in public record archives. If your child was allegedly killed by an intruder in CO, would you not utilize your alarm system no matter where you lived? Come on.
JB was a beautiful child. They did normal stuff like any other family around here. The kids have hobbies, family church and the like. They were more connected to GA than CO. I know people wanted to get all over P for pageants in both MI, CO, GA, but that's not what hurt the child. Even at the pageants...you know, I saw the mom and JB at pageants and the child was happy. She loved the stage. I mean LOVED it. She tired out like any other child but I want to make it clear that what we all viewed at these things was happiness. I would see her mom kneel down next to her right side, clutch her arm and whisper into her ear before she went on stage....could be some last minute confidence or reminders/tips. The only thing that flashes through my brain now (post death) is the bruise JB sported at Royal Miss (on her right arm above the elbow.) In the South, when a child wasn't movin' quick enough for a 'good ole overbearing Southern mother', she'd grab you by the arm and lead you herself. This mom reminded me of that.
I'm not calling her an abuser, I'm just saying it reminds me of that. That last photo of JB and her mom on Christmas day where P is clutching JB's right arm close to her with those tired eyes and forced smiles. Its an odd photo to me now. I can't explain it. Honestly..its just a feeling I always had about these people...that it was THAT kind of house...no matter what state they were in. That photo always flashes me back to the dark bruise at Royal Miss and the flash backs of her kneeling down next to the child, right arm in hand...giving direction. It's funny what you remember after the fact. This case will always bother me because it hits too close to home. I take breaks from reading here a lot. Everything that happened in Boulder that night...my god. I think she lost her temper with her and something tragic happened...P seemed to have a flare for the dramatics. If she had used her Southern common sense on DEC 25TH, she would have called 911! I will never understand all the rest...the morbid overkill, the craziness...what the hell happened in that house. OH and my opinion is the R/Note screams P. Total opinion.
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Thank you for that information, webweaved! You are correct that LE did not test anything inside the glass, including saliva, only fingerprints on the glass and bowl. There was a tag that hung from the back of the glass, but no one here has been able to identify the brand of tea by the tag (I don't know if LE is aware of the brand of tea or not). Maybe you can recognize it?
It appears to be dark green or black in color with plenty of white lettering and a white border. I've tried researching tea bag designs but can't identify it.
I take it that we've never been privileged to much larger photos of the pineapple scene? Is that screen shot off CourtTV as good as it gets? It's the only one I've ever personally seen. I've put the photo into photoshop and turned it into a negative (which normally helps me read anything!) then I turned it B&W, pushed the contrast...you name it. I can never read it enough to justify naming what it is. Grr. I do feel confident saying there is cream in the pineapple bowl. Pineapple with cream is heavenly...we prepare it sometimes. Oddly enough in a formal holiday tea setting, its normally served with what is called 'Christmas tea.' I was raised on that. I wonder if Pride Of Miss Jean Bodie was a required reading back in the day for Southern moms? *Shudder* Only kidding... ;-)
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Good thinking. I can see where you're going with this. As a former beauty queen, my reluctance on this is contestants and titleholders learned real fast to only use light colored tea bags on eyes. If you dont', it stains the skin. Skin under eyes is super thin. Cucumbers work better for this. That tea bag in the cup looks a bit dark in cup. Even in photoshop when you lighten the photo up, I'm thinking it's a darker leaf tea. Very brownish orange after use. I don't think she was up steaming her face. She supposedly did not even shower. She was wearing the same clothes, etc. I don't think she was in Beauty mode. More like flare for the dramatics survival mode. Remember, she was suppose to look like she was just sooo distraught anyway. No need to cover eye bags. JMO. It really does seem like someone made a quick cup, pulled the bag out of the cup they were drinking from, tossed the bag into the glass on the table and took THEIR hot CUP with them...to where ever they were going in the house. Was there any cups sitting next to where J or P was reading in bed that night? (if they ever went to bed) *Opinion*
The problem with the pineapple evidence is that, like so many other pieces of evidence in the case, it's inconclusive. We can't definitively say what time she ate the pineapple, so it's possible it might not have any probative value. For example, one expert opined that she may have eaten the pineapple as early as 4 or 5 in the evening prior to the White's party. If that were true it would have no bearing on the case.
webweaved
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Very true. It's either highly important or not important at all. Who knows. The pineapple had been out long enough to start turning...it's looking pretty icky in the crime scene photos. Photo from acandyrose site
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Very true. It's either highly important or not important at all. Who knows. The pineapple had been out long enough to start turning...it's looking pretty icky in the crime scene photos. Photo from acandyrose site
Let's assume the pineapple was eaten at the very latest 10:00 pm on Christmas night (Wednesday). The body wasn't discovered until 1:00 pm Thursday, meaning it had been sitting out for about 13 hours. Now I'm pretty sure the crime scene photographer didn't get in there until much later Thursday or possibly Friday. So let's not make too much of the pineapple looking stale shall we.
As to the possibility of JB eating pineapple before they left for the White's, we still have the same issues. Nobody is admitting feeding it to her and she can't get it herself. I think most jurors would tend not to believe a Ramsey appointed expert at said
It would take 8 hours to partially digest a single bite of pineapple on an empty stomach. Do you believe it?
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