The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[UKGuy]

IMO, at the very least, JBR was re-dressed into the size 12s. The remaining pairs were not found stored anywhere in JBR's room and were sent to police rolled up in the package, as if they were never worn before. To me, these are red flags and point to the partially opened presents in the basement.

OliviaG1996,
I'm with you on the size-12's. Even if Patsy told JR where to find them. Yet there are bloodstains on the size-12's and no corresponding bloodstains on her groin.

Patsy and John were attempting to build a picture of peaceful domesticity, JonBenet arrives home is redressed for bed and put to bed asleep.

Except she ate pineapple and the size-12's along with Burke's long johns do not reflect cosy domesticity.

Its more like Burke Ramsey attempting to mimic what she was wearing before she was killed, i.e. where did the Pink, see I got it right, pajamas go that she wore on Christmas Eve, i.e. the same ones seen in her last ever photo.

Consider this:
Pink pajama top lying on JonBenet's bed.
Pink pajama set worn by JonBenet Christmas Eve.
Pink Barbie Nightgown, dumped in the wine-cellar.

These are all different, so there was something going on with her bed clothes. Not redressed, I doubt it!

.

 

[Tortoise]

OliviaG1996,
I'm with you on the size-12's. Even if Patsy told JR where to find them. Yet there are bloodstains on the size-12's and no corresponding bloodstains on her groin.

Patsy and John were attempting to build a picture of peaceful domesticity, JonBenet arrives home is redressed for bed and put to bed asleep.

Except she ate pineapple and the size-12's along with Burke's long johns do not reflect cosy domesticity.

Its more like Burke Ramsey attempting to mimic what she was wearing before she was killed, i.e. where did the Pink, see I got it right, pajamas go that she wore on Christmas Eve, i.e. the same ones seen in her last ever photo.

Consider this:
Pink pajama top lying on JonBenet's bed.
Pink pajama set worn by JonBenet Christmas Eve.
Pink Barbie Nightgown, dumped in the wine-cellar.

These are all different, so there was something going on with her bed clothes. Not redressed, I doubt it!

.

Well, not only did the pink pyjama bottoms disappear, (or police were so incompetent they didn't look for them) but also a dark blue towel that would have had her blood on it.

 

[EarthtoMel]

This is the first time I have ever heard about all of this. Interesting.

 

[UKGuy]

Well, not only did the pink pyjama bottoms disappear, (or police were so incompetent they didn't look for them) but also a dark blue towel that would have had her blood on it.

Tortoise,
Patently they were not trying very hard. Where are her Christmas Eve pajama set? Also bear in mind nothing has been released about BR's touch-dna being deposited on JonBenet, or her clothing.

Could that be another angle to why she is wearing Burke's long johns?

.

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise,
Patently they were not trying very hard. Where are her Christmas Eve pajama set? Also bear in mind nothing has been released about BR's touch-dna being deposited on JonBenet, or her clothing.

Could that be another angle to why she is wearing Burke's long johns?

.

Patsy said it looked like her pink pyjama top on her bed, turned inside out with the label showing, where her pillow should have been. No reason to think it isn't. If you look at that photo of her wearing it (sitting down with her presents) you'll see the same cuff ribbing of the sleeve. I know you think it's different but I think it's the same.

 

[Tortoise]

This is the first time I have ever heard about all of this. Interesting.

Welcome.

The first time you've heard of this case, or the too large underwear?

 

[Annapurna]

IMO, at the very least, JBR was re-dressed into the size 12s. The remaining pairs were not found stored anywhere in JBR's room and were sent to police rolled up in the package, as if they were never worn before. To me, these are red flags and point to the partially opened presents in the basement.

This is how I see it as well. We can debate till the cows come home who put em on her, but we have to explain where they went and where they came from. That info is the key to figuring out who put them on her imo


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[scruffydog]

IMO, yes, JBR ate some pineapple at home after the party, but I can't see BR crashing her head in over it. Has anybody ever wondered if ....after that snack..before or after JR and PR went to bed, the kids took the flashlight downstairs to peek into the wrapped gifts, or just to play with new gifts, and somehow a fight started over the size 12 underwear? Like maybe JBR saw them and some were missing? I'm sorry, but I've always wondered if the reason the rest of the package disappeared was because BR was wearing them. Perhaps JBR had a fit over it, and was going to tell, so Burke walloped her with the flashlight? (or she saw them, and put a pair on...and he was either jealous or ticked off that they were down there for her?) I wouldn't be surprised if after that, he prodded her with something to get her to "wake up". He may have even grabbed the blanket and nightie out of the dryer and tried to cover her.

I really think that's where his involvement on THAT NIGHT ended. The rest happened when he freaked out and told his mom and dad, and the cover up began. I think the complete BDI theory goes way too far, I don't think he would have the ideas to strangle her with a fairly complex strangulation set up, or redress her, or assault her with a paintbrush. However, I do feel she was sexually abused previously and this was the reason for that night's sexual abuse fake out. Maybe something sexual happened the night of the 23rd at the party? ....Someone tried to call 911 but was begged to stop? Also to me , the whole feces subject is a blatant sign of sexual abuse. The parents were lazy, apathetic in private, and perhaps didn't know or care how to stop it, but knew it would be found after she was dead.

Sorry if that was rambling....

 

[singularity]

There is no reason to think that JBR was 're-dressed' at any point after she was put to bed. If you ask me, PR said she dressed her in the red turtleneck to support the intruder story. First, I don't see anyone struggling with a 'zonked out' kid to pull a turtleneck over their head and second, the Bloomies and boys long johns would be much easier to put on a sleeping child than would be snug, fitting clothes.

IMHO there was no 're-dressing'.

I agree. I figured the pics of the soiled panties/long johns would put that 'they redressed her in clean clothing' theory to bed but unfortunately it didn't.

Having said that, I don't believe she was "zonked". I just don't think she got redressed in soiled clothing after her murder. It makes no sense.

It all depends if you believe she was 'zonked out', sleeping and/or put to bed that night. There's no reason to believe them, and pineapple in her digestive tract to support her being awake.

I think the people who think she was asleep that night are in the extreme minority.

I also doubt her pajamas or any other clothing was truly missing. BPD just didn't look hard enough to find it.

 

[Tortoise]

I also doubt her pajamas or any other clothing was truly missing. BPD just didn't look hard enough to find it.

Tell me about it. I was looking at the pictures of her bedroom yesterday. There are the photos of it as it was left that morning, and then another photo showing the bedding removed and stacked up on the spare bed. Which, by the way, looks as if it also has a plastic wrapping on the mattress, but that is not my point. My point is the curtain behind the head of her bed with the long tie-back draped forwards over the headboard, is in exactly the same state in the stripped bed photo, after they have bagged up evidence. So they quite obviously hadn't pulled the bed out and checked for anything that could have been behind that curtain. I'm not saying anything was hidden behind that curtain but just the laziness of it all is shocking.

 

[andreww]

Everybody acts like the BPD should have taken that clothing and were inept not to do so. But lets remember that when the were searching the house they likely had no clue as to what she was wearing that day, and the Ramseys weren't being exactly helpful. Cops couldn't grab everything, so it is quite probable that evidence wasn't taken as it was simply hiding in plain sight. The other possibility is that they do have those items and they simply have never said anything about them. Who knows?


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[andreww]

IMO, yes, JBR ate some pineapple at home after the party, but I can't see BR crashing her head in over it. Has anybody ever wondered if ....after that snack..before or after JR and PR went to bed, the kids took the flashlight downstairs to peek into the wrapped gifts, or just to play with new gifts, and somehow a fight started over the size 12 underwear? Like maybe JBR saw them and some were missing? I'm sorry, but I've always wondered if the reason the rest of the package disappeared was because BR was wearing them. Perhaps JBR had a fit over it, and was going to tell, so Burke walloped her with the flashlight? (or she saw them, and put a pair on...and he was either jealous or ticked off that they were down there for her?) I wouldn't be surprised if after that, he prodded her with something to get her to "wake up". He may have even grabbed the blanket and nightie out of the dryer and tried to cover her.

I really think that's where his involvement on THAT NIGHT ended. The rest happened when he freaked out and told his mom and dad, and the cover up began. I think the complete BDI theory goes way too far, I don't think he would have the ideas to strangle her with a fairly complex strangulation set up, or redress her, or assault her with a paintbrush. However, I do feel she was sexually abused previously and this was the reason for that night's sexual abuse fake out. Maybe something sexual happened the night of the 23rd at the party? ....Someone tried to call 911 but was begged to stop? Also to me , the whole feces subject is a blatant sign of sexual abuse. The parents were lazy, apathetic in private, and perhaps didn't know or care how to stop it, but knew it would be found after she was dead.

Sorry if that was rambling....

I agree with most of what you have said, especially that Burke's involvement ended when JB was cracked over the head.


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[Tortoise]

I agree with most of what you have said, especially that Burke's involvement ended when JB was cracked over the head.


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I'm not so sure it ever started.

His statement to the investigator, words to the effect of 'How likely is a that? I just thought she's probably hiding somewhere' is as truthful and innocent as it gets. Follow that up with another statement that she was probably stabbed and then hit with a hammer, said with utter conviction in his own ability to make a guess at exactly how his sister was murdered, missing entirely a strangulation and getting the weapon wrong. Put that together with the parents pretending to search his room which they wouldn't have done if he had confessed his crime to them, or been caught in the act as BDIers would have it, because otherwise the parents had no way of knowing when they came across her lying dead with no perceptible head injury that he did it and not an intruder, and then letting him leave the house with all this knowledge of what had really happened, you find your answer.

Burke wasn't involved in any of this.

 

[Miz Adventure]

I'm not so sure it ever started.

His statement to the investigator, words to the effect of 'How likely is a that? I just thought she's probably hiding somewhere' is as truthful and innocent as it gets. Follow that up with another statement that she was probably stabbed and then hit with a hammer, said with utter conviction in his own ability to make a guess at exactly how his sister was murdered, missing entirely a strangulation and getting the weapon wrong. Put that together with the parents pretending to search his room which they wouldn't have done if he had confessed his crime to them, or been caught in the act as BDIers would have it, because otherwise the parents had no way of knowing when they came across her lying dead with no perceptible head injury that he did it and not an intruder, and then letting him leave the house with all this knowledge of what had really happened, you find your answer.

Burke wasn't involved in any of this.

By the time BR was interviewed he had probably forgotten all about killing his sister. He had probably forgotten he ever had a sister - that is why he didn't paint her into his picture.

 

[Miz Adventure]

and somehow a fight started over the size 12 underwear? Like maybe JBR saw them and some were missing? I'm sorry, but I've always wondered if the reason the rest of the package disappeared was because BR was wearing them. Perhaps JBR had a fit over it, and was going to tell, so Burke walloped her with the flashlight?

I've now got an image in my mind of BR wearing those rosebud printed panties.

 

[buggiegirl]

I just don't think she got redressed in soiled clothing after her murder. It makes no sense.

Head bash and assault, parents clean her up (wipe blood from nose or ears if there was any, wipe down undie area), redress her in the then-clean size 12s and long johns, get her in position to put the ligature around her neck etc, she soils the fresh clothes.

That's not necessarily what I think happened, but it's an easy explanation for how she could have been redressed into clothes that then became soiled when she finally died.

 

[Tortoise]

By the time BR was interviewed he had probably forgotten all about killing his sister. He had probably forgotten he ever had a sister - that is why he didn't paint her into his picture.

Do you honestly believe that?

 

[UKGuy]

I'm not so sure it ever started.

His statement to the investigator, words to the effect of 'How likely is a that? I just thought she's probably hiding somewhere' is as truthful and innocent as it gets. Follow that up with another statement that she was probably stabbed and then hit with a hammer, said with utter conviction in his own ability to make a guess at exactly how his sister was murdered, missing entirely a strangulation and getting the weapon wrong. Put that together with the parents pretending to search his room which they wouldn't have done if he had confessed his crime to them, or been caught in the act as BDIers would have it, because otherwise the parents had no way of knowing when they came across her lying dead with no perceptible head injury that he did it and not an intruder, and then letting him leave the house with all this knowledge of what had really happened, you find your answer.

Burke wasn't involved in any of this.

Tortoise,
Curiously BR got the stabbing motion right, e.g. all those contusions and abrasions on her body, some of which Kolar attributes to train tracks?

Whacked on the head with a hammer, maybe she was but the hammer was secreted away, just like her size-6 underwear, the hammer might be a surrogate for the flashlight or barbell?

If he never ligature asphyxiated JonBenet, i.e. Patsy did all that, then he wouldn't know would he?

BR's behavior in those interviews, check the pineapple scene, then later on in Dr Phil, is consistent with him being the assailant.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Patsy said it looked like her pink pyjama top on her bed, turned inside out with the label showing, where her pillow should have been. No reason to think it isn't. If you look at that photo of her wearing it (sitting down with her presents) you'll see the same cuff ribbing of the sleeve. I know you think it's different but I think it's the same.

Tortoise,
OK, I'll check and get back to you.

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise,
Curiously BR got the stabbing motion right, e.g. all those contusions and abrasions on her body, some of which Kolar attributes to train tracks?

Whacked on the head with a hammer, maybe she was but the hammer was secreted away, just like her size-6 underwear, the hammer might be a surrogate for the flashlight or barbell?

If he never ligature asphyxiated JonBenet, i.e. Patsy did all that, then he wouldn't know would he?

BR's behavior in those interviews, check the pineapple scene, then later on in Dr Phil, is consistent with him being the assailant.

.

He said she was stabbed with a knife. How do you know if those abrasions on her back were inflicted with such a motion? Matter of fact I believe they were inflicted after her death, because the autopsy says there is no bruising.

I don't think anyone in the forum, through the years it's been discussed, has been able to find a hammer that would cause that shape of skull depression.

Yes, if he never strangled her he wouldn't know.

BR's behaviour in the interviews is not consistent with him being the assailant. At all. She wan't hit in the same time frame that she ate pineapple. Coma halts digestion and whatever it's called which makes the food move along - the muscle contraction. She ate at least 30 minutes before, for it to be in her small intestine.