The Package and the Defense Motion

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his report via facebook was that it was at least 1 year ago when
he met the person who is allegedly JH.
that appearance was not likely affiliated w/ SP at all,
i know this is not the place for music chat
just throwing this info out there.
 
New reporters misinterpret info all the time guys. When they are trying to grab a story to be "first" to air it, they ask partial info, and receive partial answers. Then the gaps are filled in to air the story. Happens everyday all over the world. Sorry to tell you.

If the School is saying package was delivered July 23, that is when it was delivered. They have no choice but to tell the truth in this matter. It will be fully investigated. It will eventually come to us via trial.

If there is any validity to July 12 (which we do not know yet), it could be any number of things, including defendant actually writing a date in the notebook, much like you have to date every business letter you send, or dates in a diary; it could be a misconstrued time frame from anon source -just to think of a couple for you.
 
Duty to Warn
Duty to warn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ANd...http://www.socialworkers.org/ldf/legal_issue/2008/200802.asp?back=yes
Social Workers and “Duty to Warn” State Laws

Introduction

Social workers often inquire about their duty to report threats of harm that they learn about in the course of a professional relationship with a client. A prior LDF Legal Issue of the Month article, Social Workers and the Duty to Warn, reviewed court decisions that have addressed this topic; however, many states have passed duty-to-warn legislation and the specific contours of the duty to warn are defined on a state by state basis. This Legal Issue of the Month article focuses on the state statutes relating to the social workers’ duty to warn.

Background

Tarasoff v. Regents of the University of California (1976) is the landmark case that established the duty to warn in California and its reasoning has been applied to establish a duty to warn in states across the country. Generally, a therapist’s duty to warn is based on what the courts view as a “special relationship” established between the treating clinician and the patient who is in need of mental health treatment.

By accepting responsibility for the care of a client in need of mental health treatment, the clinical social worker may owe a duty to protect third parties from harm threatened by the client. The court in Tarasoff found, “When a therapist determines, or pursuant to the standards of his profession should determine, that his patient presents a serious danger of violence to another, he incurs an obligation to use reasonable care to protect the intended victim against such danger” (Tarasoff, 1976, p. 340). Generally, the duty applies to situations where the client identifies himself as the potentially dangerous person. Thus, it would not generally apply where a client discloses in therapy that a third party intends to harm another third party.



Duty to Warn – State Variations

Mandatory Duty to Warn
Many social workers are unaware that duty to warn laws vary from state to state and that a few states have not established a statutory duty to warn. Twenty-two states have statutes applicable to social workers that establish a mandatory duty to warn. These are: Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, and Washington. A number of these states also have court decisions that have interpreted the duty to warn laws.

“Permissive” Standard
A second group of states give permission in state statutes for social workers to warn of serious threats. These states are: Alaska, Arkansas, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Iowa, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Virgin Islands, West Virginia, and Wyoming. In some states, such as Texas, the permission to warn is limited to notifying medical or law enforcement personnel, not the threatened person or persons.

No Statutory Standard
A third set of states does not provide any statutory language for social workers addressing the duty to warn, but some of these have implemented the duty through court decisions. Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Vermont and Wisconsin do not have statutory provisions, but have established a duty to warn through court decisions. States that are silent as to the social worker’s duty to warn are Georgia, Kansas, Maine, Nevada, North Dakota, and Puerto Rico.
 
government run housing ----- Jail :moo:

LOL :jail: Goverment run housing....
You are funny... :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:


Just because someone said he inquired about apartments.
Someone thinks he moved.
OMG....:doh:
 
seriously, i dont want him FREE... Jail or Mental Hospital but not FREE
But mopre importantly, i dont want this to happen again.
If the School have anything to do with this, an action has to be done to save other students.
If that Fenton have anything to do with this, she might as well join JH in jail.
If anyone else have anything to do with this, they have to pay the victims and this non-sense has to stop.

We are all in the same boat. We want to see justice for the victims but if Justice is half baked, somebody has to put all of them in the oven and bake it right..:seeya:

The school have anything to do with this?
Let me say it again. Please don’t lose your mind.

I agree we do not want him free, or have this happen again.
But as long as they do not adjust gun control rules, and screening it will happen again someplace. :(

I do not think they knew at the school how off the wall he is.
They do and can hide it very very well, till they spiral....

But maybe they did start to see signs....because he did fail the oral exam, and when they are spiraling, they can sound very unfocused. We do not know why he failed that oral exam YET.
A specialist/shrink should have caught that.
But no specialist has a crystal ball to know that unraveling would be violent.
 
New reporters misinterpret info all the time guys. When they are trying to grab a story to be "first" to air it, they ask partial info, and receive partial answers. Then the gaps are filled in to air the story. Happens everyday all over the world. Sorry to tell you.

If the School is saying package was delivered July 23, that is when it was delivered. They have no choice but to tell the truth in this matter. It will be fully investigated. It will eventually come to us via trial.

If there is any validity to July 12 (which we do not know yet), it could be any number of things, including defendant actually writing a date in the notebook, much like you have to date every business letter you send, or dates in a diary; it could be a misconstrued time frame from anon source -just to think of a couple for you.

I am not so convinced that if the Schools said July 23 it must be so.
I am sure we will find out as this will progress.
 
CEASE.

Also, desist.

Enough with the personal jabs.

Go back to what we are allowed to link and discuss here: MSM reports.

In any emotionally-charged conversation such as this it may be hard to set one's personal feelings aside. But that is EXACTLY what you are expected to do as WS members.

If the personal back-and-forth continues here, this thread (and perhaps this forum) will be closed down for a cooling-off period.

This post lands at random. Back to the MSM-reported facts, please.
 
When I first heard of the notebook, and who it was sent to, I was reminded of a different tragic case of yesteryear. While I do not think for a minute that we're looking at this level of egregious unethical psychiatric practices, I do think the notebook will be pivotal wrt clarifying what was going on inside the mind of James Eagan Holmes as well as potentially revealing the flashpoint that ignited the final violent trajectory.

Under her Spell? ( link )

When Harvard's health service referred him to Bean-Bayog in July, 1986, Lozano was 24 years old and a third-year medical student.

The youngest of six children, he was a high school honor student and cross-country runner who had attended West Point for two years before transferring to the University of Texas, El Paso, to be closer to home.

At Harvard, Lozano was enrolled in a rigorous joint M.D.-Ph.D. program. Friends and family members say he welcomed the challenge, but that he was lonely and often felt out of place in the school's socially and academically elite atmosphere.

Therapy or Seduction ? ( link )

IN the summer of 1986 Paul Lozano, a promising Mexican-American medical student at Harvard University, sought treatment for depression from a psychiatrist named Margaret Bean-Bayog. Their sessions ran on for four fitful years before she terminated his treatment in July 1990. Despondent, he finally committed suicide in April 1991.

Some people implode. Others explode.
 
The school have anything to do with this?
Let me say it again. Please don’t lose your mind.

I agree we do not want him free, or have this happen again.
But as long as they do not adjust gun control rules, and screening it will happen again someplace. :(

I do not think they knew at the school how off the wall he is.
They do and can hide it very very well, till they spiral....

But maybe they did start to see signs....because he did fail the oral exam, and when they are spiraling, they can sound very unfocused. We do not know why he failed that oral exam YET.
A specialist/shrink should have caught that.
But no specialist has a crystal ball to know that unraveling would be violent.


LOL not losin my mind ... and never will lose my mind... got kids to feed lol..
i am just saying --- IF... but that's it... as of this moment - we are still on the fence
 
When I first heard of the notebook, and who it was sent to, I was reminded of a different tragic case of yesteryear. While I do not think for a minute that we're looking at this level of egregious unethical psychiatric practices, I do think the notebook will be pivotal wrt clarifying what was going on inside the mind of James Eagan Holmes as well as potentially revealing the flashpoint that ignited the final violent trajectory.

Under her Spell? ( link )

When Harvard's health service referred him to Bean-Bayog in July, 1986, Lozano was 24 years old and a third-year medical student.

The youngest of six children, he was a high school honor student and cross-country runner who had attended West Point for two years before transferring to the University of Texas, El Paso, to be closer to home.

At Harvard, Lozano was enrolled in a rigorous joint M.D.-Ph.D. program. Friends and family members say he welcomed the challenge, but that he was lonely and often felt out of place in the school's socially and academically elite atmosphere.

Therapy or Seduction ? ( link )

IN the summer of 1986 Paul Lozano, a promising Mexican-American medical student at Harvard University, sought treatment for depression from a psychiatrist named Margaret Bean-Bayog. Their sessions ran on for four fitful years before she terminated his treatment in July 1990. Despondent, he finally committed suicide in April 1991.

Some people implode. Others explode.

Interesting shadow
 
Interesting shadow
More than interesting, arguably. Just do a search on Bean-Bayog.

With all that is coming out in the media.
For example, the AFF where Holmes appears to be exploring alternative lifestyles ( link, h/t February )
The picture of James Holmes, that you see on this page, comes from a profile he created on the sex site AdultFriendFinder.com. On this profile, Holmes describes himself to be "a straight man" ... and said he was seeking a sexual relationship with "Women, Couples (man and woman), Groups or Couples (2 women)."

...there sure are some striking similarities:


  • excelled in school
    Lozano was an honors student
    Holmes graduated with honors​
  • attending creme-de-la-creme medical programs
    Lozano was in a dual doctorate (PhD-MD) program at Harvard
    Holmes was in a Neuroscience doctorate that only admitted 6 students per year​
  • referred to psychiatrist
    Lozano was referred to Bean-Bayog
    Holmes was referred to Fenton​
  • imploded/exploded
    Lozano committed suicide
    Holmes committed mass homicide​
While this may be nothing, the one thing that really stands out, here, is Holmes notable, yet unexplainable, change of behavior. Regardless, this is but one of many hypothetical's I've pondered, that has yet to be ruled out.
 
LOL not losin my mind ... and never will lose my mind... got kids to feed lol..
i am just saying --- IF... but that's it... as of this moment - we are still on the fence

:hug::hug::hug:
 
When I first heard of the notebook, and who it was sent to, I was reminded of a different tragic case of yesteryear. While I do not think for a minute that we're looking at this level of egregious unethical psychiatric practices, I do think the notebook will be pivotal wrt clarifying what was going on inside the mind of James Eagan Holmes as well as potentially revealing the flashpoint that ignited the final violent trajectory.

Under her Spell? ( link )

When Harvard's health service referred him to Bean-Bayog in July, 1986, Lozano was 24 years old and a third-year medical student.

The youngest of six children, he was a high school honor student and cross-country runner who had attended West Point for two years before transferring to the University of Texas, El Paso, to be closer to home.

At Harvard, Lozano was enrolled in a rigorous joint M.D.-Ph.D. program. Friends and family members say he welcomed the challenge, but that he was lonely and often felt out of place in the school's socially and academically elite atmosphere.

Therapy or Seduction ? ( link )

IN the summer of 1986 Paul Lozano, a promising Mexican-American medical student at Harvard University, sought treatment for depression from a psychiatrist named Margaret Bean-Bayog. Their sessions ran on for four fitful years before she terminated his treatment in July 1990. Despondent, he finally committed suicide in April 1991.

Some people implode. Others explode.

:waitasec:The links and associations you have provided here are all about therapist sexual inappropriateness.
So far the only thing I heard about JH Sexuality is that he was seeking women... dates, or prostitutes...
but nothing about him and his therapist.
so IMHO that is a HUGE what IF. I do not get the point of these links.
 
but nothing about him and his therapist.
Agreed. Which is exactly *why* I stated, and I quote:

I do not think for a minute that we're looking at this level of egregious unethical psychiatric practices

What I am referring to, is unproven therapies and devastating outcomes involving similar patient typologies:

20-something high-acheiving males, with no known criminal or mental background, enrolled in creme-de-la-creme medical programs, one implodes, the other explodes
and *possible* similar doctor typologies:

40-something female psychiatrists practicing questionable medicine
The latter, is of course, yet to be proven.

What raises huge red flags in Fenton's case however is the prescription abuse ( link ) along with her past unorthodox and wholly questionable breast enlargement via acupuncture practice ( link ).

Past behavior, is after all, the best predictor of future behavior.

What is key, here, is that Holmes not only told LE about the vicodin but sent the notebook to the psychiatrist (as opposed to say, the media, like the Virginia Tech shooter did). That focus, to my mind, is a clear indicator he has some sort of... beef? fixation? something? ...with this psychiatrist. This, in turn, raises a number of possibilities, of which one is the similar dynamics to the Bean-Bayog case.

That said, if the above hypothetical ends up figuring into this tragic case, that still does not absolve Holmes from his responsibility. It would however explain some things. Importantly, it would, imho, open the door for valid lawsuits against not only the doctor but also the school.
 
:waitasec:The links and associations you have provided here are all about therapist sexual inappropriateness.
So far the only thing I heard about JH Sexuality is that he was seeking women... dates, or prostitutes...
but nothing about him and his therapist.
so IMHO that is a HUGE what IF. I do not get the point of these links.

but nothing about him and his therapist. We dont know yet :)

I think the Bean-Bayog/Paul Lozano story is more on the Harvard University Patient who fell apart , got crazy and committed suicide after being separated from his psychiatrist who possibly taught him his first sex experience LOL. ...this could possibly happen on JH and Fenton too... but as of right now we dont know...

All of a sudden, JH was craving for sex too and finding some prostitutes? Hmmmmm.... another theory we can look since we still have up to November to get some real facts maybe lol..
 
University silence on accused movie shooter costly

Then top school officials sent an email thanking people for refusing to talk.
"We appreciate your continued cooperation in helping us honor the authorities' request by not giving media interviews," Chancellor Don Elliman and Executive Vice Chancellor Lilly Marks wrote to students, faculty and staff on Thursday.


On Friday, the school amended that. "It is your right to speak to whomever you wish," Elliman and Marks wrote in a follow-up email.

The school could face lawsuits; Aurora police told school officials not to reveal details that might hinder the investigation; and a judge ordered the school not to release public records on Holmes.

John Banzhaf, a law professor at George Washington University, believes the University of Colorado Denver is hiding something


"I think the school's on lockdown because there's so much that's potentially embarrassing to it," Banzhaf said. "Having things disappear from websites and putting internal gag orders on shows there might be other things they don't want coming out."

Dan Keeney, who runs DPK Public Relations, a Texas-based crisis communications firm, said the university's reluctance to explain how it handled Holmes carries risks.
"In the absence of clarity, the public's imagination runs wild," Keeney said.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/education/university-silence-accused-movie-shooter-costly/nP7sm/
 
"I think the school's on lockdown because there's so much that's potentially embarrassing to it," Banzhaf said. "Having things disappear from websites and putting internal gag orders on shows there might be other things they don't want coming out."

do we know what this refers to?
 
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