The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[crimesnooper]

I don´t know if this is the right thread. What I am going to say has a little to do with what I feel like saying though.
It is about George and Cindy. Were they very naive or were they just preoccupied with their own problems and lives?
1. Their daughter lived with them and got pregnant at the age of eighteen - and they did not see that until she was SEVEN months preggers! Cindy a nurse and all. OK, some girls/women don´t "show" too much, and that goes mostly for small, slender ones in my experience, but STILL. It is odd.
2. Their daughter who lived in their house PRETENDED to have a job for how long was it?? They never suspected a thing - even though Casey, after dressing up for "work" in the morning, then leaving, only to return to the house after Cindy and George had left for work. Casey and Caylee must have eaten something during the days, moved things around etc. Odd, odd, odd.
3. Their twenty-year-old daughter, they are told, hires a NANNY to take care of the toddler. Who HAS nannies these days?? Some single-mom alleged "event-coordinator"? I don´t THINK so. RICH people have nannies. George and Cindy just bought that story - and it never once dawned on them that they had never seen or even spoken to the nanny on the phone at least, for almost two years!

They SEEM to have been such good grandparents from photos and videos. You see the garden with all the great toys for Caylee. You see the rooms inside the house, the toys, the clothes, and everything looks so neat and clean and healthy.
But seriously, there must have been something fundamentally WRONG beneath that bright and shiny surface.
I am sure this has been covered over and over, I just needed to say it.

This may sound silly and I'm not sure what it means..but that house is too neat for having a toddler. My cousin recently got custody of her grandaughter who is 3 and her once organized house is back to what it looked like 35 years ago when she was raising her children. "Stuff" all around and not much in its place because a 3-year-old just takes the stuff out again and when you are past 50 and raising or helping raise a toddler, neatness just is not a huge priority.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Didn't Dr. Green say that Caylee was "savagely abused" based on her cranium being misshapen and other observations? That's good enough evidence for me.

 

[kpalma715]

This may sound silly and I'm not sure what it means..but that house is too neat for having a toddler. My cousin recently got custody of her grandaughter who is 3 and her once organized house is back to what it looked like 35 years ago when she was raising her children. "Stuff" all around and not much in its place because a 3-year-old just takes the stuff out again and when you are past 50 and raising or helping raise a toddler, neatness just is not a huge priority.

Same here! I have 5 kids and I try my hardest to keep it clean but there are toys, crayons, drawings everywhere. But on another note, my father and all his side of the family have OCD and although they have kids, you can eat a dinner off their bathroom floors its so clean and neat. I always believed that CA and ICA also have OCD.

 

[kpalma715]

Didn't Dr. Green say that Caylee was "savagely abused" based on her cranium being misshapen and other observations? That's good enough evidence for me.

I didn't know that!

 

[CuriousTwo]

This is my first post, but I had to comment on the child proof handle, if indeed it is on her bedroom door. My 3 year old has a tendency to get up in the middle of the night and roam the house. She could potentially fall down the stairs or even get outside. For that reason, we put the childproof door handle on her door (which she didn't like at all and we were able to remove it within a few days- she hasn't left her bed since). Especially with a pool in the backyard, I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing for Caylee to have had one. I could see Casey being too hungover to notice or care that Caylee was awake and roaming the house. Granted, I can totally see Casey using such a thing to lock her in there. But, just had to point out that at this age, when they can open doors and get into things, it can be a safety thing too.

Thanks so much for your post! That makes perfect sense to me. And IIRC, CA did say at trial (when questioned about any childproofing measures they took in the home) that there were instances where they were afraid Caylee might get up after they were asleep. I recall CA mentioning that she (CA) didn't like the dooorknob things because she (CA) had difficulty using them.

I feel better about this now.

 

[artsy1]

There was never any sexual abuse and Casey herself says she is not even sure about her Dad - she says "I think my Dad also did this when I was young". She thinks.

So Baez paints George as the primary sexual abuser when KC herself says the primary was Lee and possibly George. But the jury never hears that. But as soon as I heard it, I said well when George and Cindy hear this, they have to know NOW that KC killed Caylee and they did - they stopped all investigation into Zenaida as attested to by Cindy. So we all know this. But the jury.

I think the jury is waiting to hear about the sexual abuse allegations and they are not going to get anything - they do not have psychiatrists to put on - even though every idiot on every show says THEY HAVE TO PUT ON PSYCHIATRISTS. They just hire these people and they say anything without putting the time in to find out if that is even possible and in this case it is not since the Defense pulled them after hearing that the State wanted in on it.

So what is left? KC takes the stand.

If Baez had done this right, he would have left sexual abuse out and gone for a lesser of manslaughter saying she drowned and freaked out. who can say it isn't true. And maybe she would have gotten manslaughter, which is still 30 years but betten than lwop or death. Because that is what she is looking at. Which she deserves.

BBM

I had heard by one of the legal analysts on one of the news channels shortly before the trial started that the defense can't put the shrinks on the stand, and here's why.

In order for the defense to put their shrinks on the stand to say whatever about Casey, the prosecution's shrinks would have had to be allowed to do their own examination/questioning of Casey. DT wouldn't allow anyone to examine her but his own experts, so DT can't use their shrinks during the trial.

However, if ICA is convicted on 1st degree, the shrinks will be allowed to testify during the penalty phase, to try to show mitigating circumstances.

 

[artsy1]

Your're right..There's NO WAY, I could remember what I was wearing 31 days ago or anyone else...hmmm

Some people just have a visual memory.

I have a visual/photographic memory. I can't remember the date the last time my dad came up to visit (like 2 months ago), but I can remember what he wore, what we ate, where we sat, etc.

How and what a person remembers vary from person to person. And I suspect since GA had been in LE, he probably has a visual memory, too.

 

[ZsaZsa]

BBM

I had heard by one of the legal analysts on one of the news channels shortly before the trial started that the defense can't put the shrinks on the stand, and here's why.

In order for the defense to put their shrinks on the stand to say whatever about Casey, the prosecution's shrinks would have had to be allowed to do their own examination/questioning of Casey. DT wouldn't allow anyone to examine her but his own experts, so DT can't use their shrinks during the trial.

However, if ICA is convicted on 1st degree, the shrinks will be allowed to testify during the penalty phase, to try to show mitigating circumstances.

Whatever the DT's own Psychiatric evaluations of ICA showed, the DT buried it pretty quickly afterward. If those experts had felt her claims had any merit it would have been all over the MSM that Baez claims to despise so much.
I feel sure the findings had to be that she had no diagnosable mental illness but is a liar and a malingerer.

 

[MaraSleuth]

This may sound silly and I'm not sure what it means..but that house is too neat for having a toddler. My cousin recently got custody of her grandaughter who is 3 and her once organized house is back to what it looked like 35 years ago when she was raising her children. "Stuff" all around and not much in its place because a 3-year-old just takes the stuff out again and when you are past 50 and raising or helping raise a toddler, neatness just is not a huge priority.

My nieces (3 & 5) are at my moms 5 nights a week - sometimes 6 because BIL travels to Asia a lot and my sister works crazy shifts so it is easier for them to stay there and go with my mom to school. Their house is spotless - I am amazed. I don't think the state of their house means anything. Some people are Triple Type A personalities about house cleanliness. MOO

 

[h818]

Caylee's hair always bothered me.
In early pictures her hair is thick and has body.
In her last photo her hair looks very thin on the sides by her bangs.
Her hair is in a pnytail, but seems thinner and no body.
This is why I feel Caylee was doped up allot before.
JMOO

Wouldn't they be able to tell if she had been drugged over the long term by testing her hair?

 

[carole]

Wouldn't they be able to tell if she had been drugged over the long term by testing her hair?

Her hair was tested for Xanax and several other things and nothing was found. It was in the autopsy reported and Dr. G. reported it in her testimony.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Didn't Dr. Green say that Caylee was "savagely abused" based on her cranium being misshapen and other observations? That's good enough evidence for me.

Who is Dr. Green and when was this said? TIA.

 

[h818]

Her hair was tested for Xanax and several other things and nothing was found. It was in the autopsy reported and Dr. G. reported it in her testimony.

I thought it had been tested. I didn't watch Dr. G's testimony, I don't have the stomach for that stuff. Would chloroform have shown up in the testing?

 

[carole]

I thought it had been tested. I didn't watch Dr. G's testimony, I don't have the stomach for that stuff. Would chloroform have shown up in the testing?

Chloroform didn't show up either.

Page 35 and 36 of the autopsy report show the things they tested for - http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/6440.6475.pdf

 

[SMK]

I didn't know that!

Yes, it is on page 19 of the autopsy report:
Also:

Report of Osteological Analysis.

The posterior half of the sagittal suture appears to be in the beginning stages of premature synostosis.

"Dr. Green responded with the following opinion":

There is evidence that she was forced over some period of time, at least several months or longer, to often be forced to lie on her back, maybe with her head restrained, maybe under sedation, maybe because she was terrorized, and maybe because she was so tired she often fell asleep in an awkward, un-natural, and forced position. This would have been, due to her age and the fact the fusion of the synostosis were not yet mature, to cause chronic osteotic changes, primarily due to replicating osteoblasts (bone-cells that are growing at that age) so as to have caused this non-natural finding…but which finding in and of itself is not pathological [i.e. not related to disease].

In short, Dr. Green felt there was “non-specific but worrisome evidence of chronic child abuse”.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/6440.6475.pdf

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/01/09/the-dark-side-of-caylees-life/

 

[SMK]

Who is Dr. Green and when was this said? TIA.

Read this link, which also links to the autopsy report. If you read the whole page, you will come to a very grim conclusion: (***This is a consultant of Dr. Green's, and Dr. Green's opinion is gone into at length, and linked to pp of the Medical Examiner's autopsy report: )
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/01/09/the-dark-side-of-caylees-life/

 

[MILLIO2001]

I doubt the death of Caylee was her first or only time in the trunk of the car, maybe she was always placed in the trunk on her back so she cld get what little air there was while she slept and Casey partied, this the disfiguring of her little head. The real abuse to Caylee was being born to Casey. I honestly believe if not for George & Cindy, Caylee would not have lived as long as she did albeit a "Bittersweet life not Bella Vita". Bittersweet because I believe Casey resented her from conception and the resentment became stronger as Caylee became the center of the family thereby displacing the former center of the family Casey. I also think Casey had intended to abort Caylee but time got away from her, otherwise why didn't she tell her parents she was pregnant?
JMO

 

[MILLIO2001]

Read this link, which also links to the autopsy report. If you read the whole page, you will come to a very grim conclusion: (***This is a consultant of Dr. Green's, and Dr. Green's opinion is gone into at length, and linked to pp of the Medical Examiner's autopsy report: )
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/01/09/the-dark-side-of-caylees-life/

How sad to be right about something so wrong. Too bad she was too young to tell what was being done to her when she was left alone with Casey. She was too young to tell @ the time but, she was getting older and sooner or later she was going to speak clearly and Casey's dubious treatment of her was going to come out, Casey could not let that happen now could she?
JMO

 

[MILLIO2001]

Whatever the DT's own Psychiatric evaluations of ICA showed, the DT buried it pretty quickly afterward. If those experts had felt her claims had any merit it would have been all over the MSM that Baez claims to despise so much.
I feel sure the findings had to be that she had no diagnosable mental illness but is a liar and a malingerer.

The defense did not use the "mental illness defense" because Casey is not mentally ill, she is demented and dangerous. Baez wld have jumped on the "mental illness defense" in a heartbeat if she had been diagnosed mentally ill by DSMIV definition according to any mental health professional. My Granny used to say "if I had to choose between a liar & a thief I wld choose the thief because if something goes missing you know who took it, but a liar will lie to u, lie on u, lie about u". What makes Casey lie like she does? Simple, Casey lies because she knows how to talk period. Casey has proven once again our elders forgot more !@#& than we will ever know. U can learn a lot from your elders. U can teach a lot as an elder.
JMO
Millio2001

 

[Robinez]

Not judging you, but I don't think it is appropriate for a child to sleep with any male that is not her father. Who knows what could happen once mom is sleeping? JMO

In the case of ICA we unfortunately know what happens when Mom is awake!

TC, Robin