The Ramseys are Cleared

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Do you know if they had more than one handwriting expert compare the note with Patsy's known handwriting? If so, were the conclusions the same from everyone?

My notes have Patsy's handwriting samples having been reviewed and graded by 6 handwriting experts at the request of LE. Their consensus being that she was a "low probabilty" (4.5 out of 5 with 1 being a match) as regards the liklihood that she wrote the ransom note. I don't have it in my notes, nor do I ever recall reading or hearing anywhere, that any of the experts had any disagreement or concern with Patsy's consensus score.
 
Hi again wenchie

It's happened before.....maybe he wore gloves until he wanted to sexually touch his victim.....and put them back on afterward.

I just don't believe it's possible.

There should be something more in the house: some fibers other than those of the parents' clothing, a piece of head or public hair - something!

How did Patsy's fibers get underneath the garotte, but not the killers?

How did that intruder get through the window without leaving any fibers or skin?

I think there's a HUGE agenda on Lacy's part - or else, she's downright delusional and should never have been DA in the first place.
 
I admit that I do not see an IDI as being probable, but to consider the 'possibility' of an intruder, once again, I'm trying to for a moment consider all sides of the equasion:

He had to, 'very well', know the R's house as well as the R's personally and professionally. (He had to know what made them 'tick'. He had to be able to predict correctly not only their day to day actions but also their emotions and how these emotions affected them in crisis. This would have only been sincerely evident when Beth died and maybe a little from PR's health problems.)
He thoroughly studied PR's handwriting in order to 'attempt to' duplicate it.
He had an awful grudge.
He either knew about JBR's prior sexual abuse or he was a part of it.
He knew that w/ a lot of help from him, the R's would, by their own nature, entangle themselves into this web and make themselves look even more guilty.
His grudge was so strong that he was willing to subject himself to the possibility of being caught by spending an enormous amount of time at the crime scene.
He was through enough to only leave one specimin of dna and 2 specimins of touch dna, and used everthing to complete the crime and all the evidence from within the home.
He has this horrific hatred for the R's, yet he has kept it a total secret from R's for 'x' amount of time prior to the crime and for over 10 years has kept totally silent after the crime.

(Could this new found touch DNA somehow 'draw him out' of hiding since he takes pleasure in the R's suffering and they have apparently been 'cleared'???)

He can carry a possibly 'still alive' child of 6 down a circular staircase in the middle of the night without difficulty or fear of awakening the occupants of the entire home or he boldly took her down the other staircase.

He knew where every item would be kept which he would need to successfully commit the crime as well as those needed for the staging and he remembered to replace all items used but no longer needed in staging, exactly where they were previously kept.

He knew enough about JBR to be confident that he could find many of her favorite items to place with her to implicate her family. (Who could possibly be this close and not be in the group to have been tested for dna?)

He was able to enter and exit leaving no evidence of his entry or exit.

(I have a sinus headache from He!!... and am not communicating effectively at the moment... Would anyone else like to help me add to this list of "possible intruder facts which can be surmized" to justify rational for an 'possible' IDI's existance. If not, I need to take a break from thinking and from typing anything remotely coherent for a bit...I'll think more about this later, in the paraphrased words of S.O'Harah...) :bang:
 
I just don't believe it's possible.

There should be something more in the house: some fibers other than those of the parents' clothing, a piece of head or public hair - something!

How did Patsy's fibers get underneath the garotte, but not the killers?

How did that intruder get through the window without leaving any fibers or skin?

I think there's a HUGE agenda on Lacy's part - or else, she's downright delusional and should never have been DA in the first place.

While I think its very possible that an intruder can come into a home and leave no DNA, no hair, no fibers...I think its highly unlikely that an intruder can do everything that THIS intruder did and leave no trace evidence except on the clothing of his victim. He touched her body with the gloves on, but he takes them off to dress and undress her?

Nope.
 
I just don't believe it's possible.

There should be something more in the house: some fibers other than those of the parents' clothing, a piece of head or public hair - something!

How did Patsy's fibers get underneath the garotte, but not the killers?

How did that intruder get through the window without leaving any fibers or skin?

I think there's a HUGE agenda on Lacy's part - or else, she's downright delusional and should never have been DA in the first place.

:clap: excellent questions and I wanna know the answers to 'em.. grr...
 
He knew pineapple was JB's favorite snack AND he knew the family didn't have any in stock so he remembered to bring some with him.
 
While I think its very possible that an intruder can come into a home and leave no DNA, no hair, no fibers...I think its highly unlikely that an intruder can do everything that THIS intruder did and leave no trace evidence except on the clothing of his victim. He touched her body with the gloves on, but he takes them off to dress and undress her?

Nope.

"He" either had clothes on, or was naked.

If clothed, there should be clothing fibers.

If naked, there should be skin, and body hairs.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/10/ramsey.dna/index.html

Go down about two/thirds - sorry, my comp is very slow right now and will only let me have one window open at a time.

(i think the paragraph starts "late last year...")

Thanks jill.

It does say under her 'fingernails,' but I haven't seen or heard that part anywhere else. I think I'll look and see if anyone else states that before I believe it. CNN could be wrong. :rolleyes:

JMHO
fran
 
I admit that I do not see an IDI as being probable, but to considering the 'possibility' of an intruder, once again, I'm trying to for a moment consider all sides of the equasion:

He had to, 'very well', know the R's house as well as the R's personally and professionally. (He had to know what made them 'tick'. He had to be able to predict correctly not only their day to day actions but also their emotions and how these emotions affected them in crisis. This would have only been sincerely evident when Beth died and maybe a little from PR's health problems.)
He thoroughly studied PR's handwriting in order to 'attempt to' duplicate it.
He had an awful grudge.
He either knew about JBR's prior sexual abuse or he was a part of it.
He knew that w/ a lot of help from him, the R's would, by their own nature, entangle themselves into this web and make themselves look even more guilty.
His grudge was so strong that he was willing to subject himself to the possibility of being caught by spending an enormous amount of time at the crime scene.
He was through enough to only leave one specimin of dna and 2 specimins of touch dna, and used everthing to complete the crime and all the evidence from within the home.
He has this horrific hatred for the R's, yet he has kept it a total secret from R's for 'x' amount of time prior to the crime and for over 10 years has kept totally silent after the crime.

(Could this new found touch DNA somehow 'draw him out' of hiding since he takes pleasure in the R's suffering and they have apparently been 'cleared'???)

He can carry a possibly 'still alive' child of 6 down a circular staircase in the middle of the night without difficulty or fear of awakening the occupants of the entire home or he boldly took her down the other staircase.

He knew where every item would be kept which he would need to successfully commit the crime as well as those needed for the staging would and he remembered to replace all items used but no longer needed in staging, exactly where they were previously kept.

He knew enough about JBR to be confident that he could find many of her favorite items to place with her to implicate her family. (Who could possibly be this close and not be in the group to have been tested for dna?)

He was able to enter and exit leaving no evidence of his entry or exit.

(I have a sinus headache from He!!... and am not communicating effectively at the moment... Would anyone else like to help me add to this list of "possible intruder facts which can be surmized" to justify rational for an 'possible' IDI's existance. If not, I need to take a break from thinking and from typing anything remotely coherent for a bit...I'll think more about this later, in the paraphrased words of S.O'Harah...) :bang:

You are doing a fantastic job! It's just the strain of trying to use that type of mentality needed to believe in The Intruder.
 
Thanks jill.

It does say under her 'fingernails,' but I haven't seen or heard that part anywhere else. I think I'll look and see if anyone else states that before I believe it. CNN could be wrong. :rolleyes:

JMHO
fran

Hi fran:

what it seems they are saying, imo, is that the DNA was degraded (under her nails) and at that time they were not able to get a good testing.

Contradicts what the PI San Augustin says about a report issued two weeks after the crime.

But apparently, with new technology that DNA found under the nails was able to be matched recently to the skin cell DNA found by the touch method.

I guess it remains to be seen.

Still a lot of questions.
 
nice talking with you all.

Hoping for closure to this case and am keeping my mind open.

After all, LE does know a lot more than I do!

Bye, bye :)
 
I do understand the other side of the issue, Angel and respect them but cases are brought on actual evidence to prove that someone did the crime. Even a GJ, who will indict a ham sandwich, refused to bite and imo it was because there was no evidence then or now that the Ramseys were involved. I do think that many people do not like the Ramseys but that does not make them murderers .............just easier to accuse imo.

I do not give any weight to the handwriting analysis. I am sorry, I just don't.

Out of a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being the most likely to have written the note and Patsy only having a 4.5 rating which is at the top range and means possibly but not nearly as likely as someone who got assessed at a 1, 2,3,or even a 4. I think they included her into the last 1/2 of a percent range simply to keep her hanging thinking they could put pressure on her to cave.

imoo



Thank you for your reply.

For the sake of understanding both sides here, I'll remove 'handwriting' for the moment, from my list.

I do understand your point about 'actual evidence' and the GJ, however, BPD totally botched up the case to define much if any evidence collected as being uncontaminated 'actual evidence'. Therefore, wouldn't you also have to discount the fact that there 'wasn't enough 'actual evidence' to indite the R's as if the botched evidence collection also possibly wrongly discounted the R's from being indited???

IOW, the grand jury not inditing is not necessarily due to lack of evidence as much as it due to implication of the reasonable doubt, due to the botched securing of the crime scene... Right?
 

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