The Ramseys are Cleared

[oceanblueeyes]

She wasn't just wetting, reefshadow. She was soiling as well.



JB's hymen wasn't torn and stretched. It was almost completely worn away.



It WAS pineapple, MrsMush. Even Lou Smit said it was. There's no "may" about it.



The way I remember it, she was half-naked.

Tex, before you or anyone else go agreeing with blueeyes, I ask you to consider: there's a difference between redressing and what was done to JB. She wasn't just redressed, she was dolled up! She had her hair in ponytails and a spangly star top. She was done up in death to look like the beauty queen she was. That's one of the big red flags for me in this case. She was made a beauty queen in life by her mother. Who else BUT her mother would care if she was a beauty queen in death?

I wrote a full post about this recently. I ask that it be read.

IMO, it seems to be that the killer was making a mockery out of JB and a statement to the Ramseys, such as "Here is your beauty queen" etc.


imoo

 

[MrsMush99]

because it was a previously used piece of tape.

the "binding" on her wrists ...you should look at the photos, that too was just staging and tied after she was no longer conscious.

Is that a fact or speculation??? I'm sorry I keep asking that question, but I'm just trying to keep all the facts straight in my mind. Sorry if I'm driving anyone crazy.

 

[angelwngs]

I have read about it before in other cases. Bodies who were redressed and even posed. It is not uncommon at all for a blanket/sheet/spread to be found over the body when discovered either.

imoo

...and her favorite night gown placed beside her body...etc.etc.etc...???

 

[txsvicki]

I'm not sure that I understand why it's not possible for JonBenet to have put the larger underwear on herself that morning and was never really even redressed. Patsy doesn't seem like she was the type to pay much attention to household things such as bowls, spoons, and opened packages.

 

[magnolia]

LOL....Wudge and I have had many a battle over Scott Peterson and it's kinda freaking me out to be in agreement with Ol' Wudge on this case!

:waitasec:

Me too!! :seeya: Seems really weird to be in agreement with Wudge.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm not sure that I understand why it's not possible for JonBenet to have put the larger underwear on herself that morning and was never really even redressed. Patsy doesn't seem like she was the type to pay much attention to household things such as bowls, spoons, and opened packages.

or basic hygiene!!

 

[BBB167893]

sorry, MrsMush. Never let them see you bleed, and all that.

Then why would the Ramseys just get rid of the tape when they could have as easily taken the garrote off of her neck along with the other end of the broken paintbrush and removed the binding on her wrists and discarded them as well?

Are you kidding? The garrote was integral to the scene. It HAD to be there.

Henry Lee thinks the tape might have been a used piece. Possibly from the back of JB's My Twinn doll, but don't hold me to that just yet.

 

[TexMex]

Tex, before you or anyone else go agreeing with blueeyes, I ask you to consider: there's a difference between redressing and what was done to JB. She wasn't just redressed, she was dolled up! She had her hair in ponytails and a spangly star top. She was done up in death to look like the beauty queen she was. That's one of the big red flags for me in this case. She was made a beauty queen in life by her mother. Who else BUT her mother would care if she was a beauty queen in death?

I wrote a full post about this recently. I ask that it be read.

Maybe dressed the way her stalker wanted her to look? He had time to pick out an outfit for her while he waited.

What benefit would it be for the Ramseys to doll her up? More benefit to them if she's found naked, IMO.

Autopsy report:

The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.

1x1 cm hymenal orifice

 

[Wudge]

Dave,

I think you keep confusing me with someone else, LOL. I never said it wasn't pineapple. Wudge mentioned that in the autopsy report it says vegetable or fruit. I always knew it was pineapple that why when Wudge mentioned that I was a little surprised.

The autopsy report said fruit or pineapple, it "may" have been pineapple.

Whether it was or was not pineapple is not really probative to me. I just wanted to make it known that the autopsy report did not say it was pineapple.

 

[angelwngs]

I wanted to address those who are correlating JB's bedwetting with sexual abuse. It is a very poor method of proving abuse or even bolstering the case for it. *Many* children still occasionally wet the bed at the age of 6-7, an estimated 10 percent in the USA IIRC. There also seems to be a genetic correlation- if one or both of your parents were bedwetters you are much more likely to be. My husband sporadically wet the bed until he was 11 and so did his mom. Neither were ever sexually abused and grew up in fully functional families.

NE can be ascribed to many, many things and sexual abuse is only one of many possibilities. Personally I think it is much more possible that JB had a problem with NE secondary to chronic UTI's. UTI's are extremely common in children because of poor hygene- fecal material is transported to the urethra and vagina via bad wiping habits. This would explain all the repeat DR visits with vaginal exams, and also explain why the DR wasn't concerned. I can say that as a mandatory reporter I would *never* consider economic status or outward appearances when reporting suspected abuse.

Chronic yeast infection are also very common in small children and infants and can cause vulvar, vaginal, and labial irritation, lesions, itching, and discharge.

It is common for the hymenal ring to be torn and stretched very early on in our society, due to the acceptability of girls and women engaging in sports, and early sexual experimentation. And make no mistake- kids experiment sexually very early on, either with other kids or solo. It is common and perfectly normal.

Personally from what I see in her report I could not say that JB was vaginally abused chronically, or even at all before this assault. I also cannot say that she *wasn't*, but all the talk about chronic abuse is only speculation.

Vaginal and NE problems are common in children is all I can say, and there are numerous causes aside from sexual abuse.

I think it is possible that her vaginal traumas and stretched hymen was due to (Possibly..I'm saying Possibly...) PR excessive cleaning to prevent the recurring infections...

I think it actually got a little rough. I think PR frequently wrapped a wet bath cloth around her finger and inserted it inside her vagina to clean JBR.

I think this became something which JBR hated and only caused her more issues with more frequent accidents which only made PR more frustrated and at wits end...and began the screaming matches that were reported being heard by the housekeeper...

 

[TexMex]

Me too!! :seeya: Seems really weird to be in agreement with Wudge.

LOL...it's like I might wake up and make a snowman in Texas in July!

Great to see you mags

 

[BBB167893]

IMO, it seems to be that the killer was making a mockery out of JB and a statement to the Ramseys, such as "Here is your beauty queen" etc.

If that were the case, why not leave her under the Christmas tree to REALLY dig it in?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

because it was a previously used piece of tape.

the "binding" on her wrists ...you should look at the photos, that too was just staging and tied after she was no longer conscious.

Yeah it could have fed his twisted lust just having them loosely binding the wrists. I see a lot of fantasizing in this murder done by the killer. She was his at will to do whatever he wanted to do. I do think he may have relished in the idea hoping that John and Patsy found their daughter this way.

Did they prove that it was previously used tape inside that home? Used where? Do you have a link where the forensic techs tested it? Thanks in advance.


imo

 

[MrsMush99]

The autopsy report said fruit or pineapple, it "may" have been pineapple.

Whether it was or was not pineapple is not really probative to me. I just wanted to make it known that the autopsy report did not say it was pineapple.

Gotcha Wudge. But I guess because pineapple was found on the table it is just assumed that, that is what she ate.

Were JonBenet's fingerprints found on the bowl or just Patsy's and Burke's? What about on the spoon?

 

[reefshadow]

Post-mortem voiding. It's common, moreso than your explanations of UTI's and yeast infections in little girls.

I understand that post-mortem voiding is common, but the volume that appears to have been found on her clothing would be inconsistent with a bad bedwetting hours before. I hardly think Patsy would kill her for a small incident.

UTI's and yeast infections are common in pediatric practice, and shouldn't in and of themselves be indications of sexual abuse.

 

[TexMex]

The autopsy report said fruit or pineapple, it "may" have been pineapple.

Whether it was or was not pineapple is not really probative to me. I just wanted to make it known that the autopsy report did not say it was pineapple.

Autopsy report

The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.


Could have been veggies?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If that were the case, why not leave her under the Christmas tree to REALLY dig it in?

Oh I don't think he ever wanted the shock and horror to be over that fast.

He was playing mind games and he knew it.......he knew they would find that out soon enough too.

imoo

 

[angelwngs]

The autopsy report said vegetable or fruit, it "may" have been pineapple.

QUOTE..."which may represent fragments of pineapple" End Quote...

 

[philamena]

The autopsy report said vegetable or fruit, it "may" have been pineapple.

beep -wrong.

At autopsy, Meyer found chunks of pineapple in JonBenet's upper digestive tract, but she had not eaten this for dinner and no one recalled her eating a snack before bed.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/cyril_wecht/6.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

sorry, MrsMush. Never let them see you bleed, and all that.



Are you kidding? The garrote was integral to the scene. It HAD to be there.

Henry Lee thinks the tape might have been a used piece. Possibly from the back of JB's My Twinn doll, but don't hold me to that just yet.

If it was the Ramsey, why? The duct tape was also part of the scene, right?

imoo