The Re-Ordered American Girl Doll..

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Could just be she was exhausted, she was working as hard as any child actor or model but without the legal protections they receive because of the amateur status of pageants. In professional work younger kids are so limited time wise twins are frequently used.

Back to the dolls, if Pam removed them on Dec 28th and one was ordered on Jan 1st, the person that ordered the 'replacement' would have had to known Pam's actions AND would have to be a regular customer with a catalogue, they didn't go online until 1998. Seems to fishy to mean anything other than the Ramseys took the duct tape off the doll, put it on Jonbenet's dead lips and to hide or cover up the fact the doll was replaced in case the police came calling to inventory it.

sgrump,
Why would that matter, lets just say the intruder took the duct tape off the doll. Who can say otherwise or even bothers?

Its curious that the police never highlighted the doll in the same way they did about the size-12's, i.e. they got Patsy to state she purchased them and that's why they were in the house, i.e. no intruder brought them in.

So if the doll is missing and needs a replacement, why no questions regarding who took the doll out of the house, i.e. was it the intruder?

.
 
Hi. Novice here. I'm trying to read through the highlights of all the JBR threads, but I wanted to ask a question before I forget:

Has anyone ever found out how the "replacement" American Girl doll was shipped? FedEx? USPO? I wonder if there was a rush order option. I've seen where it has been called into question whether a doll ordered after JBR was found could have arrived by January 1.

I just find the possible duct tape/doll connection intriguing. As I continue reading, I may find the answer. If that's the case then I apologize for making someone have to repeat themselves.

Gosh so many people have done so much work for this little girl. Your dedication is admirable. Thank you.
 
JB previously already HAD an American Girl doll. I had read somewhere it was the "Samantha" Doll, which has brown hair and eyes.
It was an American Girl doll that was sent to the AG offices, but I do not know which one. The American Girl dolls are sold by the Pleasant Company.
The doll she received for Christmas was a MyTwinn doll, dressed in a pageant-style dress and a tiara. This doll was custom ordered to look like JB with blonde curls. JB reportedly didn't think the doll looked like her.
The MyTwinn dolls are now made my Mattel I think, but I do not know if that was the case in 1993.




I received a My Twinn doll for Christmas when I was seven. I can understand why JB would have disliked her doll; My Twinn dolls had large, glassy, Margarete Keane-esque eyes that were absolutely terrifying. I don't recall playing with my doll much; I kept it hidden away in the closet it was too creepy to keep out.


My Twinn dolls were produced in Denver during the 90's (by the Flagship Group, a mail order catalog company). Unlike American Girl dolls, My Twinn dolls were hand sculpted, so it took considerably longer for the doll order to arrive. If one wanted a My Twinn doll for Christmas, it would have had to have been ordered around September. I don't recall the My Twinn dolls ever achieving the same popularity as their American Girl doll "Just Like You" equivalent, but My Twinn dolls still had a backorder around the holiday season and were popular in Colorado.
 
The anonymous mail order for a doll arrived in Middleton Wisconsin on Dec 31, 1996. It was processed / transferred into the American Girl computer system and prepared to ship on Jan 1st. It did not ship until Jan 2 because the first is a legal holiday, just as the order could not have arrived on the first, it arrived the day before, a lag of 24 hours isn't bad. It was not a rush delivery, the dollar amount only provided for standard UPS shipping. The money order was for the price of the doll plus shipping charges from a chart on the order form. It would have arrived in a few days, Wisconsin to Colorado isn't far and the holiday rush was over.

It was all anonymous. The only name was Jonbenet's and the only address was Access Graphics. To have an order form means the sender had to have been an existing customer with a catalog, it takes 2 weeks to get a paper catalog and there was no internet site at the time. To know Pam removed the doll narrows the possible sender down even more, it wasn't public information until PMPT was published. Did Pam also remove an American Girl catalog? Most little girls save them and look at them again and again like the old fashioned Sears Wish Book.

C R E E P Y
 
http://www.americangirlfan.com/the-journey-of-fixing-up-an-american-girl-doll-1/

Was Molly's "miss Victory" costume available in 1996. Seems like JB would have certainly owned that outfit. Just curious.

Also, here is a link to fixing an AG doll that shows it taken apart with the long cord, stuffing, etc.
 
I'm hoping Dr. Henry Lee and his forensic expertise will discuss the dolls in the CBS series. His credibility beats Phil McGraw any day. I'll be looking in the background of the reconstructed house set for the dolls along with the big painting Pam removed.
 
I'm hoping Dr. Henry Lee and his forensic expertise will discuss the dolls in the CBS series. His credibility beats Phil McGraw any day. I'll be looking in the background of the reconstructed house set for the dolls along with the big painting Pam removed.

Can you please elaborate on the painting? Which painting and do you now the approximate size?

Thanks,
Nin
 
http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm

"The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil printing, several American Girl dolls, a portfilio of JonBenet's pageant photographs, a pageant medal with a blue ribbon, graduation photos of the older children, and a Bible from John Ramsey's desk, but she had missed JonBenet's stuffed cat, which Patsy had wanted retrieved."

I have lots of framed art and pictures on my walls with all manner of wires, strings, and cords used to hang them, some professionally done and some homemade jobs. It seems possible the cord for the garrote was originally used to hang the painting, especially when you consider the doll connection - take the duct tape off the doll remove the dolls take the cord from the painting remove the painting. Why on earth take a painting? They said they wanted to give it to a friend but in the end kept it. I want to see if it's 'hanging' in the house in the recreation or was just propped up against a wall because the cord was removed. They had the video shot 12/26 PM as a guide and it's been said were accurate in little details.
 
All of this is so extremely interesting! this case gets weirder by the minute. :waitasec: If any of the odd situations showed up in another crime scene, by itself, it wouldn't have any significance. But THIS case, the totality of it, all of the many many many strange parts put together, tells me that no intruder did this.
In regards to the golf bag.... the missing tip of the paintbrush could also be in there. Was Pam under close watch when gathering these items? Was she escorted and each item closely examined before she took possession? (This could've been answered already. Still trying to play catch up!)
 
Also the santa bear was new to me too. How could PR and JR ever have lived at that house? They didn't recognize anything from the house. At all. Seriously. At a certain point if I had been interviewing either of them my face would've given me away. I'd be like....:notgood::doh::aktion1::waiting: This is what is so infuriating about the whole crime. It seems everyone else that knows about this case wants it solved. Except the Ramsey's. Sure they've held up reward posters with crocodile tears, but the message was clear. I mean hell the ransom note asked for more money than the reward poster! :notgood:
 
PositiveLight,

The police supposedly wrote down what she took, but did not take a thorough account, nor investigated the individual objects. The amount of items she took varies depending on who is telling the story honestly. Some people say she only took a few sentimental items (accounted above by sgrump) and others (RDI's usually) say she took whole trash-bags full of things out. She definitely took far more than she should have been allowed.

The golf bag is one of those "myths" that persist in this case. It does not seem that it was taken out of the house by Pam. This does not mean it had nothing in it though, and unfortunately the cops never checked.

"Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown."
-Steve Thomas
 
PositiveLight,

The police supposedly wrote down what she took, but did not take a thorough account, nor investigated the individual objects. The amount of items she took varies depending on who is telling the story honestly. Some people say she only took a few sentimental items (accounted above by sgrump) and others (RDI's usually) say she took whole trash-bags full of things out. She definitely took far more than she should have been allowed.

The golf bag is one of those "myths" that persist in this case. It does not seem that it was taken out of the house by Pam. This does not mean it had nothing in it though, and unfortunately the cops never checked.

"Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown."
-Steve Thomas
I wonder if those Christmas stockings were empty.... I'm shocked at everything they were allowed to remove from the house! I mean I understand after a certain point they would have to move out considering they didn't plan on going back to the house. I'm just wondering if anyone ever went back through the house with a fine tooth comb and took everything that could possibly be a part of the case into custody. Such as toys and dolls that might hold evidence to fibers found. Thank you so much for the reply! It was very insightful!
 
http://www.americangirlfan.com/the-journey-of-fixing-up-an-american-girl-doll-1/

Was Molly's "miss Victory" costume available in 1996. Seems like JB would have certainly owned that outfit. Just curious.

Also, here is a link to fixing an AG doll that shows it taken apart with the long cord, stuffing, etc.

VICTORY! at end of RN............
 
heyya singularity,

Due to the specific "glaze" in her eyes I would wager vicodin or oxycodone....maybe benzos. (benzos=benzodiazepines) - s

That's a very interesting observation.
wrt the glazed eyes.... and the administration of these kinds of drugs to JBR,
maybe an ADHD medication, Ritalin or Adderall?


It's in the pupils, but no one can know for sure unless a urine test is administered.

Small Pupils
Opiates and CNS depressants such as Benzodiazepines and Barbiturates will give the user small pupils when using.


Big Pupils
Stimulants such as Cocaine, Ecstasy, Methamphetamines, Amphetamines along with LSD and Marijuana will give the user larger pupils.
 
I did indeed see multiple paintings/artwork propped up and leaning against the wall as though they were missing the hanging cord. One was right behind the paint tote outside the wine cellar door and the other looked to be a big movie poster in the train room.

There was actual crime scene footage from the all telling video shot 12/26/1996 interspaced with the re-enactment video, you have to watch closely to distinguish the two.

Will wait until tonight to hear about the duct and dolls.
 
Hello, everyone. It's been a long while since I posted here. With the renewed interest and evidence in this case, I knew this place would be on top of the latest.

My name comes from my former career in the funeral services. My title for my reply comes from past experiences with family behavior at funerals. To wit: the casket.

9 times out of 10, family members will have sentimental items they want to place in the casket with the loved one. While most are intended for public view, a lot go into the foot of the casket or get tucked into the sides. Most of the time, the funeral director never checks on the items. We may not even know they are down there unless the family member requires assistance with the lid. Unless we have reason to be concerned such as with a known gang banger funeral, we're going to leave the family to do what they need to do.

So...if I recall correctly, JBR was in a hardwood casket. I am guessing it was a standard half couch meaning you did not see the lower half of her body. Meantime, there's a white cord, puffs of kapuk, a piece of duct tape and strange fibers the lab can't find matches for.

How much you want to bet that in the foot of JBR's casket, there's a torn apart Molly doll?

Caskets are great for hiding evidence. Better yet, hardwood ones because even with a vault, they will break down faster than the steel ones.

Thankfully, doll vinyl is nearly non bio degradable. The head should still be clearly identifiable as a Molly doll head if that is in there.

I think it is past time the casket be exhumed. JBR is with God. She can't be hurt anymore.
Justice delayed is still justice and it is time she had some.
 
I don't understand the significance of this doll, even if it was reordered. Could someone say a few words of why this matters?
 
I don't understand the significance of this doll, even if it was reordered. Could someone say a few words of why this matters?

There are unidentified tan and blue fibers found on the tape (iirc) that was on her mouth. The doll was re-ordered after her death, in her name. So the significance could be that the duct tape was taken off one of her dolls (which have hanging strings often secured with duct tape). Pretty much, we have questions. Who knows if they mean anything.
 
There are unidentified tan and blue fibers found on the tape (iirc) that was on her mouth. The doll was re-ordered after her death, in her name. So the significance could be that the duct tape was taken off one of her dolls (which have hanging strings often secured with duct tape). Pretty much, we have questions. Who knows if they mean anything.

Ok, I get the part about the fibers but what does that have to do with reordering the doll? Why would it matter if the doll was reordered? I get that it's all creepy but I don't see where this goes?
 

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