The Remains Site-Revisited

[BeanE]

Thank you BeanE for the document regarding the skull. I do apologize, I couldn't recall reading this.

Don't apologize! I thought the info didn't exist, and was surprised to find it lol.

 

[christee]

Thank you for the links. I tried to find that reference and was unable to do so. That will teach me not to post before I do my research. Credit to BeanE and Harmony. IMO an upright skull means one that is not facing down. So.....body was not perpendicular to the road? Am I right? THis would perhaps support the theory of one dragging the bag down the slope, perhaps using shrubbery to attempt to obscure it...as opposed to a quick toss and run. I also wonder if the rainfall would "float" a portion of the laundry bag. The entire bag could later be covered by water, but only AFTER the water levels rose high enough or the bag becoming saturated.

I've also wondered if the bag floated, and would it be possible that if the water rose after Caylee was placed there that because of the Hurricane she may have moved a few feet? What I'm trying to get my fingers to type is-could she have been placed a little further into the woods and with the water rising and the wind was blowing towards Suburban (I'm directionally challenged), would it be possible when the water level went down she lay where she was eventually found? It's just never made sense to me that she was left that close to the road.
Just a "what if" kinda question, IYKWIM!!

 

[Amanda]

I've also wondered if the bag floated, and would it be possible that if the water rose after Caylee was placed there that because of the Hurricane she may have moved a few feet? What I'm trying to get my fingers to type is-could she have been placed a little further into the woods and with the water was rising and the wind was blowing towards Suburban (I'm directionally challenged), would it be possible when the water level went down she lay where she was eventually found? It's just never made sense to me that she was left that close to the road.
Just a "what if" kinda question, IYKWIM!!

I agree. IMO, KC put Caylee there to be found quickly, or the water moved her closer to the road.

 

[notthatsmart]

I am still trying to figure out how the trunk area of the body was moved and the big bones (arms, legs, hands, feet, skull, all stayed in place. I know the medical examiner states that it had to be moved during decomp in order for those trunk bones to stay together. I am fine with that and I can agree with that. This is what bothers me:

Caylees tshirt was found just north of the skull and just south of the bag (inbetween) indicating that she was wearing it when decomposing. The tshirt is 100 percent cotton and it decomposed down to practically nothing.

Caylees striped shorts were found just east of the bag. The shorts were also 100 percent cotton and hardly any decomposition at all. Indicating she was not wearing the shorts during decomp. Okay, I get it. It was bed time, so the shorts and shoes come off. So now she's asleep and the perp duct tape her and kill her. So why does the perp bring the shorts to the dump site? Where are the shoes? or is the dump site the murder site?

 

[Imbackon]

I am still trying to figure out how the trunk area of the body was moved and the big bones (arms, legs, hands, feet, skull, all stayed in place. I know the medical examiner states that it had to be moved during decomp in order for those trunk bones to stay together. I am fine with that and I can agree with that. This is what bothers me:

Caylees tshirt was found just north of the skull and just south of the bag (inbetween) indicating that she was wearing it when decomposing. The tshirt is 100 percent cotton and it decomposed down to practically nothing.

Caylees striped shorts were found just east of the bag. The shorts were also 100 percent cotton and hardly any decomposition at all. Indicating she was not wearing the shorts during decomp. Okay, I get it. It was bed time, so the shorts and shoes come off. So now she's asleep and the perp duct tape her and kill her. So why does the perp bring the shorts to the dump site? Where are the shoes? or is the dump site the murder site?

By virtue of something being made of the same material, does not mean it should have the same strength. Weave and thickness matter.
For example, think of how many washings and wear a pair of jeans can take with seemingly no wear. You can't compare that to most tshirts.

 

[notthatsmart]

By virtue of something being made of the same material, does not mean it should have the same strength. Weave and thickness matter.
For example, think of how many washings and wear a pair of jeans can take with seemingly no wear. You can't compare that to most tshirts.

So do you think she was wearing the shorts? I don't. IMO

 

[Jolynna]

I am still trying to figure out how the trunk area of the body was moved and the big bones (arms, legs, hands, feet, skull, all stayed in place. I know the medical examiner states that it had to be moved during decomp in order for those trunk bones to stay together. I am fine with that and I can agree with that. This is what bothers me:

Caylees tshirt was found just north of the skull and just south of the bag (inbetween) indicating that she was wearing it when decomposing. The tshirt is 100 percent cotton and it decomposed down to practically nothing.

Caylees striped shorts were found just east of the bag. The shorts were also 100 percent cotton and hardly any decomposition at all. Indicating she was not wearing the shorts during decomp. Okay, I get it. It was bed time, so the shorts and shoes come off. So now she's asleep and the perp duct tape her and kill her. So why does the perp bring the shorts to the dump site? Where are the shoes? or is the dump site the murder site?

For whatever reason, KC forget the shoes.

As far as why the shirt would rot faster than the shorts, blood or body fluid would cause whatever material they came in contact with to break down faster. Wounded areas decompose faster. Bloody clothes rot faster than clean clothes.

Maybe you are right and Caylee wasn't wearing the shorts. Not being in as close of contact to a rotting body would explain why the shorts held up.

 

[Beatrice]

The "school area" was one of the first places searched. Knowing this, had someone helped Casey deposit Caylee there later on...thinking it would not be searched again?

 

[Beatrice]

(Not that it would make any difference....

Casey is stll involved)

 

[cloud9]

For reference on Caylee's skull being upright and the direction in which it was facing:

The scene was located in a wooded area along the south side of Suburban Drive,east of the intersection of Hopespring Drive/Suburban Drive. The area was dense with trees, vines, and vegetation that were present along the west and east sides of a path that curved southwest and down into the wooded area. A rotting log was observed along the west side of the path, partially covered with vegetation. Directly west of the northwest corner area of the log was a human skull. The skull was upright on the ground, partially hidden by vegetation, with the front facing northwest towards hanging vines.

Forensic Entymology report:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/12/01/forensic.entemology.pdf

Of course, we can have a lively discussion about whether Caylee's skull had been upright for some time, or whether it dropped or rolled to that position, but I really don't want to go there...

Hi BeanE

I was just getting ready to post this link, but I see you already did.:dance:
Anyway, I am still really bothered about this upright position. I suppose it's possible, but not likely?

ETA~ I wasn't thinking dropped or rolled, but "placed?"

 

[Sdavidson11]

For whatever reason, KC forget the shoes.

As far as why the shirt would rot faster than the shorts, blood or body fluid would cause whatever material they came in contact with to break down faster. Wounded areas decompose faster. Bloody clothes rot faster than clean clothes.

Maybe you are right and Caylee wasn't wearing the shorts. Not being in as close of contact to a rotting body would explain why the shorts held up.

I think since Caylee was wearing a pull up it saved the shorts from some of the purging fluids.

 

[BeanE]

Hi BeanE

I was just getting ready to post this link, but I see you already did.:dance:
Anyway, I am still really bothered about this upright position. I suppose it's possible, but not likely?

ETA~ I wasn't thinking dropped or rolled, but "placed?"

Hi cloud9 It is an oddity to me too, but I'm not an expert. There were no comments in the M.E.'s report or any of the LE reports remarking on this, so I have to conclude that none of them found it to be as odd as I did. I dunno what else to say about it.

 

[cloud9]

The skull detached from the spine obviously the duct tape held the mandible and maxilla together nts....unless of course caylee suffered decapotation prior to decomposition. IOW, it most definately was the duct tape holding the jaw to the skull. ~gasp~ I hate typing about poor caylee that way.

Hi

I just noticed your post. *IF* Caylee was decapitated, it could explain why the skull was found in the upright position, meaning it was placed that way. Sorry to sound so gruesome. But there is nothing in the documents to explain why it was found that way, because there was no way to know "why." That is, unless someone else knows something and eventually comes forward with it.

Thank you...

 

[cloud9]

Hi cloud9 It is an oddity to me too, but I'm not an expert. There were no comments in the M.E.'s report or any of the LE reports remarking on this, so I have to conclude that none of them found it to be as odd as I did. I dunno what else to say about it.

Thanks, BeanE

I'm no expert either and I trust the ME, LE, etc. They could only report on what they had to go on.

 

[Linz]

The skull detached from the spine obviously the duct tape held the mandible and maxilla together nts....unless of course caylee suffered decapotation prior to decomposition. IOW, it most definately was the duct tape holding the jaw to the skull. ~gasp~ I hate typing about poor caylee that way.

Hi

I just noticed your post. *IF* Caylee was decapitated, it could explain why the skull was found in the upright position, meaning it was placed that way. Sorry to sound so gruesome. But there is nothing in the documents to explain why it was found that way, because there was no way to know "why." That is, unless someone else knows something and eventually comes forward with it.

Thank you...

A young child's vertebrae are very delicate. Signs of decapitation would have been noticed by the ME. This is one indignity, at least, that Caylee was spared.

 

[superboo]

silly question

do jaw bones normally fall off skulls? i've only seen them on tv and they all seem to be pretty much attached. just curious

 

[JBean]

silly question

do jaw bones normally fall off skulls? i've only seen them on tv and they all seem to be pretty much attached. just curious

I believe they are mainly attached by soft tissue and the 2 hinge joints. This is why it is thought that the tape held the jaw in place, because it would most likely have been detached from the skull after so much decomposition.

 

[cloud9]

A young child's vertebrae are very delicate. Signs of decapitation would have been noticed by the ME. This is one indignity, at least, that Caylee was spared.

Thank you for clearing that part up.

 

[nitasch]

As for the disposition of the skull, didn't RK state he disturbed the bag and a skull "fell out"? That would certainly change the position of the skull before it fell out.

 

[notthatsmart]

As for the disposition of the skull, didn't RK state he disturbed the bag and a skull "fell out"? That would certainly change the position of the skull before it fell out.

The entomologist indicated that he had to tear the skull from the roots on the ground indicating that the skull did not drop out of the bag. I think that would also indicate that the skull was not floating around.

Furthermore the skull was found at the top just south of the arm bones and leg bones indicating that was the original site of decomp. I don't think anything floated around. Not sure it was ever under water.