The Rope and the knots

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Cute! Yes, peace indeed...

Likewise, I apologize to you and all - once and forever - for seemingly sometimes wasting your time with comments, findings, observations and/or questions which you have all already discussed/resolved. But, please keep in mind at all times that those of us new or just returning to this case after two years are going to need a great deal of help catching up. You don't seriously expect us to first review or remember thousands of posts spread across dozens of threads over two years, do you?!...

It's a complex case, an unusual, complicated death, with very little information that has been made public by LE. There were quite a few details we didn't have until reading Ann Rule's book when it recently came out. Other info has come from media interviews, not LE reports.

It's complicated by the first death, that of MS, which was also complicated and unusual. He also gets added to the discussion. Two people, two death investigations and a fairly large cast of characters, so to speak. It's difficult to keep track of all the details and timeline. Over the last 2 years, I've often had to go back and re-read the history.
 
I know a few sailing experts. I know a few Navy experts and military experts as well. I'm going to float the photos a bit and see if anyone can ID these knots for us. It's bothering me tenfold, it always has bothered me, I'd also like someone asian to weigh in on these knots.
 
You say she was inexperienced at tying knots. Please provide that link b/c I haven't seen it. She lived on the beach in the summertime. Was there ever any boating? Perhaps I should search for a photo where they are boating.

I can safely assume RZ was familiar with tying rope. A look at her suicide bondage proves that.

imo & moo

Bringing this part of a post from another thread since it belongs on this thread. Snipped by me.

Just because a person spends the summer (part or all) at the beach and may or may not ride on a boat does not mean that a person would have knowledge of tying knots. One can ride on a boat and never have tied knots before in their life.

Making an assumption based on where a person may spend their summers and having been on a boat is ,IMO, a very large leap to saying that person knows about tying knots. I, personally, have spent summers at the beach and been on a boat numerous times however I could not tie a knot that would hold firmly that would be equal to someone that has tied knots before.

However, there is someone involved in this case that does have knowledge of tying knots so that they are secure and will hold firmly. We have no firm, accurate proof that Rebecca knew how to tie knots that would hold firmly.

MOO
 
Bringing this part of a post from another thread since it belongs on this thread. Snipped by me.

Just because a person spends the summer (part or all) at the beach and may or may not ride on a boat does not mean that a person would have knowledge of tying knots. One can ride on a boat and never have tied knots before in their life.

Making an assumption based on where a person may spend their summers and having been on a boat is ,IMO, a very large leap to saying that person knows about tying knots. I, personally, have spent summers at the beach and been on a boat numerous times however I could not tie a knot that would hold firmly that would be equal to someone that has tied knots before.

However, there is someone involved in this case that does have knowledge of tying knots so that they are secure and will hold firmly. We have no firm, accurate proof that Rebecca knew how to tie knots that would hold firmly.

MOO

Great points! All 3 defendants named in the WDS know how to tie sailor knots. Dina and Nina's dad was a US Coast guard and according to an obituary*, he used to take both his daughters out boating from the time they were young children and onward. Given the fact that he was a US Coast guard, he'd have to learn to how secure a boat/ship and given that he took Dina & Nina yachting OFTEN, it would be reasonable to assume he likely did teach them how to tie sailor knots. Moreover, an insider had stated that Dina and Jonah both loved to take Jonah's private yacht out to sea so this is additional sailing and rope-tying/knotting experience for Dina.

Of course, we all aware that Adam is a tugboat captain so it is most apparent that he would know how to rope-tie sailor knots.

Since Rebecca only went sailing less than a handful of times in her entire lifetime, it would be safe to assume she was not taught sailor knotting.

*I will provide obituary link as soon as I can find it again. :)

Here's link: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/ROMANO-Eugenio-Gene-2609170.php

The article says "He enjoyed...yachting in Coronado, and reminiscing with his family" and "More than anything else, spending time with his daughters and their families always made him the most proud and joyful." Also says Dina and Nina's dad "started and managed a successful business, "Romano's Moving & Transfer", and that "Following retirement, he lived out his boyhood dream of becoming a cowboy cattle rancher and purchased a ranch in Gerber, CA." Hmm, that gives me an image of more rope-tying, including lassoing cattle and securing of furniture/things with ropes. Lots of rope-tying knowledge and practical experience in the Dina/Nina Romano family.
 
Do we know for FACT that Rebecca EVER went sailing?? I don't recall reading that. Just because there is a sailboat available doesn't necessarily imply she sailed. My family grew up sailing yet a family member was deathly afraid of the water, thus refused to go out in the boat. TIA
 
Do we know for FACT that Rebecca EVER went sailing?? I don't recall reading that. Just because there is a sailboat available doesn't necessarily imply she sailed. My family grew up sailing yet a family member was deathly afraid of the water, thus refused to go out in the boat. TIA

I don't recall reading anything in regards to Rebecca having sailing experience. Whether with Jonah or her life before Jonah. RZ didn't need sailing experience to learn these complex knots. Some believe she could have looked them up on the computer using the search words, "raped, sexy Asian girls, and bondage anime". If Rebecca had made these searches for the purpose of suicide, I would expect to see the words "suicide" or "hanging" included in the words searched.

Some have suggested Rebecca and Jonah engaged in BDSM. If true, I'm curious who brought this into their relationship, Jonah or Rebecca? If Jonah, I have to consider if this was practiced with his ex wives. Would Dina have experience in BDSM when she was with Jonah? BDSM is not my cup of tea, therefore I have no experience. However, I personally don't find this to be a character flaw in those who choose to practice BDSM. As long as it is healthy and between consenting adults, to each their own. It may be a piece of salacious info on a mogul like Jonah, but it doesn't make one a bad person. Again, since I have zero experience, is there anyone else here that knows if these knots are customarily used in BDSM? In my opinion, the bondage part of Rebecca's murder may have been used to send a message. It is also my opinion, this message was not left by Rebecca. I believe the message was left by the person who murdered her.
 
I don't recall reading anything in regards to Rebecca having sailing experience. Whether with Jonah or her life before Jonah. RZ didn't need sailing experience to learn these complex knots. Some believe she could have looked them up on the computer using the search words, "raped, sexy Asian girls, and bondage anime". If Rebecca had made these searches for the purpose of suicide, I would expect to see the words "suicide" or "hanging" included in the words searched.

Some have suggested Rebecca and Jonah engaged in BDSM. If true, I'm curious who brought this into their relationship, Jonah or Rebecca? If Jonah, I have to consider if this was practiced with his ex wives. Would Dina have experience in BDSM when she was with Jonah? BDSM is not my cup of tea, therefore I have no experience. However, I personally don't find this to be a character flaw in those who choose to practice BDSM. As long as it is healthy and between consenting adults, to each their own. It may be a piece of salacious info on a mogul like Jonah, but it doesn't make one a bad person. Again, since I have zero experience, is there anyone else here that knows if these knots are customarily used in BDSM? In my opinion, the bondage part of Rebecca's murder may have been used to send a message. It is also my opinion, this message was not left by Rebecca. I believe the message was left by the person who murdered her.

BBM - So true! I think if anything like that was going on, then it was Jonah who brought it into the relationship from past experience. Oddly, I hear possible overtones of 'someone' or ones thinking that this was known to Jonah and it's part of a jealousy loop. IDK

I certainly can't answer the 2nd BBM well, but I would say from looking around the web that those knots could be used in Shibari or Kinbaku, it doesn't appear they are necessarily that common though in that practice.

Be WARNED this page on pinterest at the link below does have some nudity, but it's safe to view, not violent or *advertiser censored*, and you can see the variety of knots.

http://pinterest.com/renatazb/shibari-kinbaku/

As far as I can tell, someone who knew Shibari might know how to do the knots on Rebecca, but I'm not sure the overall look and method of tying coincides... usually Shibari, etc. is artful for the most part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_bondage#Aesthetics_of_Japanese_Bondage

Here is a pic showing similar knots - but these are not THAT easy to find and would probably not come up with the search terms used.

http://pinterest.com/pin/41165784064895907/
http://pinterest.com/pin/41165784063637588/

It would be far more likely, in my opinion, that someone staged that search to make it look like Rebecca had done it that to provide any info on how to tie knots.

One last thing to add....I believe those knots on Rebecca would be used in a number of circumstances. In other words, they are known knots and not just used in boating or bondage.

Also, not all rope bondage/tying is what you might think of as BDSM as far as I can tell.
 
The searches on Rebecca computer just don't make sense at all. If one is preparing to commit suicide, they don't need to look up "raped" or "sexy Asian girls". There is nothing sexy about commiting suicide via hanging. And sure no one can rape themselves, so in my opinion, the search is absolutely irrelevant to Rebecca.
However, Adam habitually watches *advertiser censored* (6am, no less, watching *advertiser censored* on his iPhone, just like other people read newspapers or brush their teeth upon awakening), may be very attracted to pretty Rebecca and may fantasize about her. I wish we knew at what time searches were conducted.
 
Even if JS and RZ were into some kinky stuff. Who really cares? It is not any big deal between two consenting adults FGS. I realize this happened before the world read 50 shades, but come on now, lots of people were aware of BDSM prior to that.

I am sure that any type of BDSM type of "items" that were in the mansion would have been taken into evidence. I mean, they would do that right? A bound woman found dead outside the place and all.... (cough).

Third, as it has been posted before, if either or both of them were into that, their previous partners would be well aware and NN has made no mention of this since RZ's death, and well, DS we know what she's been saying.

The searches are troubling because someone into that wouldn't need to be searching about what was searched for. They would be well aware of the intricacies of it and wouldn't be searching for something as detailed and odd as that.

ALWAYS MOO
 
Even if JS and RZ were into some kinky stuff. Who really cares? It is not any big deal between two consenting adults FGS. I realize this happened before the world read 50 shades, but come on now, lots of people were aware of BDSM prior to that.

I am sure that any type of BDSM type of "items" that were in the mansion would have been taken into evidence. I mean, they would do that right? A bound woman found dead outside the place and all.... (cough).

Third, as it has been posted before, if either or both of them were into that, their previous partners would be well aware and NN has made no mention of this since RZ's death, and well, DS we know what she's been saying.

The searches are troubling because someone into that wouldn't need to be searching about what was searched for. They would be well aware of the intricacies of it and wouldn't be searching for something as detailed and odd as that.

ALWAYS MOO
Inthedark14...love you, but hate the subject, Ugh. Just gotta say, that is some freakazoid stuff!! Call me a prude..(and I happily acknowledge being one.) Nothing makes me sicker than some old trout fart trying to hit on me with weird innuendos and fetish talk!! Yuck, gag, upchuck......
Ladies, if you don't run your azz's right back home, the second a creep suggests tying you up with ropes, you need to:
A) consider firing your life coach...
B) ask Match.com for a full refund
C) tell him it is OK, if you get to tie him up first
D) seriously consider celibacy a virtue!
 
Inthedark14...love you, but hate the subject, Ugh. Just gotta say, that is some freakazoid stuff!! Call me a prude..(and I happily acknowledge being one.) Nothing makes me sicker than some old trout fart trying to hit on me with weird innuendos and fetish talk!! Yuck, gag, upchuck......
Ladies, if you don't run your azz's right back home, the second a creep suggests tying you up with ropes, you need to:
A) consider firing your life coach...
B) ask Match.com for a full refund
C) tell him it is OK, if you get to tie him up first
D) seriously consider celibacy a virtue!

Sorry to have freaked you out a bit IQ, I know it's not a subject that makes everyone comfortable. But the fact of the matter is that people do these things everyday, it is not a real "oddity" in the world. If we can be comfortable talking about what the internet search was about, we may as well delve into it and explore what it could or could not mean.

Again, sorry if I offended you in any way, I would never want to do so...I'm just trying to think beyond the "norm". (I'll reference the "novel" 50 shades again, many people are familiar with it ((it can be found anywhere)), so I really don't see the harm here, especially with what is being inferred in this case).

:therethere: :grouphug:(not a gross hug, a we can solve this hug)! :)
ALWAYS MOO
 
Sorry to have freaked you out a bit IQ, I know it's not a subject that makes everyone comfortable. But the fact of the matter is that people do these things everyday, it is not a real "oddity" in the world. If we can be comfortable talking about what the internet search was about, we may as well delve into it and explore what it could or could not mean.

Again, sorry if I offended you in any way, I would never want to do so...I'm just trying to think beyond the "norm". (I'll reference the "novel" 50 shades again, many people are familiar with it ((it can be found anywhere)), so I really don't see the harm here, especially with what is being inferred in this case).

:therethere: :grouphug:(not a gross hug, a we can solve this hug)! :)
ALWAYS MOO

Inthedark:blushing: You have not offended me and neither have I read 50 shades. As I said, I guess I'm kind of a prude and have to realize this subject is going to come up BECAUSE SOME FRIGGIN' IDIOT CLAIMS TORTURING AND KILLING A BEAUTIFUL YOUNG WOMAN has something to do with Japanese Macrame!!! If I were going to commit suicide, I wouldn't be doing it for anyone else's prying eyes, public humiliation, or cause so much grief for my family.
I accept the group hug, sometimes it is hard being a prude. Hey, hey, Serpico, move your hand!!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
(...just teasin')
 
The searches on Rebecca computer just don't make sense at all. If one is preparing to commit suicide, they don't need to look up "raped" or "sexy Asian girls". There is nothing sexy about commiting suicide via hanging. And sure no one can rape themselves, so in my opinion, the search is absolutely irrelevant to Rebecca.
However, Adam habitually watches *advertiser censored* (6am, no less, watching *advertiser censored* on his iPhone, just like other people read newspapers or brush their teeth upon awakening), may be very attracted to pretty Rebecca and may fantasize about her. I wish we knew at what time searches were conducted.

You understood my point, the Internet search makes absolutely no sense and does not fit a suicide theory. If Rebecca wanted to look up how to bind herself, she would not look up the word "rape". If she had experience in BDSM, she likely would not need to search the Internet. In my opinion, the Internet searches profoundly point to someone else having accessed her computer. How extremely odd to find these words had been searched on her computer and then to find her dead and bound. The Internet searches have a meaning. In my opinion, either someone wanted to humiliate Rebecca, was acting on a fantasy or was sending a message to Jonah. All point to homicide, not suicide. The murderer took the act further with the bindings. They were not a necessary part of the murder. The bindings took extra time and with any extra time there was more of a chance the perp would be caught. IMO, The murderer felt safe and not rushed. The message on the door, the Internet searches and the bindings were all part of a bigger message someone wanted to send, in my opinion.
 
Sorry to have freaked you out a bit IQ, I know it's not a subject that makes everyone comfortable. But the fact of the matter is that people do these things everyday, it is not a real "oddity" in the world. If we can be comfortable talking about what the internet search was about, we may as well delve into it and explore what it could or could not mean.

Again, sorry if I offended you in any way, I would never want to do so...I'm just trying to think beyond the "norm". (I'll reference the "novel" 50 shades again, many people are familiar with it ((it can be found anywhere)), so I really don't see the harm here, especially with what is being inferred in this case).

:therethere: :grouphug:(not a gross hug, a we can solve this hug)! :)
ALWAYS MOO

BBM - I agree and SDSO completely ignored the Internet searches. In my opinion, purposely ignored, for two reasons. It did not fit their suicide conclusion and they were protecting the image of Jonah Shacknai. I can imagine JS was already not pleased with AS's admission of viewing *advertiser censored* on his iPhone. If you add the Internet searches to Adam's *advertiser censored* admission, well it doesn't look real good for AS who happens to be the brother of mogul Jonah Shacknai.
 
BBM - I agree and SDSO completely ignored the Internet searches. In my opinion, purposely ignored, for two reasons. It did not fit their suicide conclusion and they were protecting the image of Jonah Shacknai. I can imagine JS was already not pleased with AS's admission of viewing *advertiser censored* on his iPhone. If you add the Internet searches to Adam's *advertiser censored* admission, well it doesn't look real good for AS who happens to be the brother of mogul Jonah Shacknai.

Not only it doesn't look good for the brother of mogul John Shacknai, but this *advertiser censored* watching brother, possibly fantasizing about tying up and raping sexy Asian female, happened to be in the very close vicinity from Rebecca, who was Asian and found dead, nude and bound under very mysterious circumstances.

I wonder if Adam asked Rebecca to use a "computer room" that fateful Tuesday, and Rebecca let him. We know he brought his iPhone but there is no mention of him bringing laptop or iPad. He could've asked her to use a computer to book a flight or to check an email. She had no reason to deny him, after all he was JS brother, he was there to support him and she wanted to be hospitable. While he was there, she went to master bedroom to shower and change. Maybe that's was the time when Nina showed up and saw light is on in the "computer room". Maybe that was the time when Dina showed up at the door and Adam let her in the house. After all, Dina was not a stranger to Adam, she was his nephew's mother, he had no reason to avoid her. And maybe they confronted Rebecca together after she got out of the shower.
 
Not only it doesn't look good for the brother of mogul John Shacknai, but this *advertiser censored* watching brother, possibly fantasizing about tying up and raping sexy Asian female, happened to be in the very close vicinity from Rebecca, who was Asian and found dead, nude and bound under very mysterious circumstances.

I wonder if Adam asked Rebecca to use a "computer room" that fateful Tuesday, and Rebecca let him. We know he brought his iPhone but there is no mention of him bringing laptop or iPad. He could've asked her to use a computer to book a flight or to check an email. She had no reason to deny him, after all he was JS brother, he was there to support him and she wanted to be hospitable. While he was there, she went to master bedroom to shower and change. Maybe that's was the time when Nina showed up and saw light is on in the "computer room". Maybe that was the time when Dina showed up at the door and Adam let her in the house. After all, Dina was not a stranger to Adam, she was his nephew's mother, he had no reason to avoid her. And maybe they confronted Rebecca together after she got out of the shower.

Zoot I think you may have hit the nail on the head with this theory! There's just too many "off" things about AS for me to give him a pass. DRS has obvious motives, and many at that. How could she NOT be involved? I don't see any reason for NR to be directly involved, but have no doubt that she would cover for her sister in a heart beat. IMO this was some combination of AS & DRS, and your theory makes as much sense as any I've heard.
 
Its kind of interesting that this subject is being hit upon, as sex has been a generally shied away from topic in this case, notwithstanding the small pebbles of innuendo.

The only person I know of who actually knew Rebecca's ex-boyfriend personally said he thought it might be traced back to that subject:

http://warpony2310.blogspot.com/2012/03/doctor-comments-on-jonah-shacknai.html

"Needless to say though I had a signed agreement with Medicis for my initial study on lips and the paper for $280,000 this did not include the expanded studies and the work that would lead to FDA approval in which they promised participation. But Xxxxx never paid me and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young."
 
The only person I know of who actually knew Rebecca's ex-boyfriend personally said he thought it might be traced back to that subject:

http://warpony2310.blogspot.com/2012/03/doctor-comments-on-jonah-shacknai.html


What are you saying?

Are you saying you knew a person who knew Rebecca's ex boyfriend (whoever that is?)?

Who is Rebecca's ex boyfriend?

And, that person you knew thought it could be traced back to the subject matter of sex?

I'm really not getting what your point(s) is here?

From the link

"But Jonah never paid me and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire."

I don't see any connection between Jonah having this sexual desire and Rebecca being murdered. Jonah is the one with the alibi, Dina is the one without an alibi. Unless you mean Dina was jealous of Rebecca getting all the sexual attention from Jonah?
 
Not only it doesn't look good for the brother of mogul John Shacknai, but this *advertiser censored* watching brother, possibly fantasizing about tying up and raping sexy Asian female, happened to be in the very close vicinity from Rebecca, who was Asian and found dead, nude and bound under very mysterious circumstances.

I wonder if Adam asked Rebecca to use a "computer room" that fateful Tuesday, and Rebecca let him. We know he brought his iPhone but there is no mention of him bringing laptop or iPad. He could've asked her to use a computer to book a flight or to check an email. She had no reason to deny him, after all he was JS brother, he was there to support him and she wanted to be hospitable. While he was there, she went to master bedroom to shower and change. Maybe that's was the time when Nina showed up and saw light is on in the "computer room". Maybe that was the time when Dina showed up at the door and Adam let her in the house. After all, Dina was not a stranger to Adam, she was his nephew's mother, he had no reason to avoid her. And maybe they confronted Rebecca together after she got out of the shower.

Very good analysis! The public has always been told AS came home from the hospital and went straight to bed. Its very likely he used the computer room for while, let visitors in when RZ was showering.
 
Its kind of interesting that this subject is being hit upon, as sex has been a generally shied away from topic in this case, notwithstanding the small pebbles of innuendo.

The only person I know of who actually knew Rebecca's ex-boyfriend personally said he thought it might be traced back to that subject:

http://warpony2310.blogspot.com/2012/03/doctor-comments-on-jonah-shacknai.html

"Needless to say though I had a signed agreement with Medicis for my initial study on lips and the paper for $280,000 this did not include the expanded studies and the work that would lead to FDA approval in which they promised participation. But Xxxxx never paid me and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young."

This is a very odd comment of Dr Klein. He is celebrated dermatologist and got plenty of credit for his work. Why he felt the need to comment on JS sexual desires and what it has to do with anything? Scratching my head here.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Klein"]Arnold Klein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
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