The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

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https://books.google.com/books?id=A...TAD#v=onepage&q=oak beach marsh tides&f=false
This is a link describing Oak Beach Marsh as a "tidal-marsh basin"....there are multiple other sources that I will post later that describe the tidal impact on the marsh especially PRIOR to the drainage system fix.

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This is a photo from the Daily Mail of the area where SG's clothing was found.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014...longing_to_Shannan_Gilb-a-4_1418328785209.jpg

Thick bramble: Clothing and other items belonging to Shannan Gilbert were found in the marsh in the community of Babylon



And from the Daily News, an image of where her body was actually found.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...le_750/mari-gilbert-daughter-sherre-sight.jpg
 
There are quite a few easy ways to walk right in and out. SG didn't use them. Where she supposedly went in is a thick wall of growth, and where she was found, probably because she tried to exit there to the highway, is the impenetrable shrub they claimed it to be. There's no ebb and flow in there because it's generally above sea level and there's no direct connection to the water. An extended high tide event like a nor'easter or hurricane will soak the whole area's ground by not letting it drain through the soil/sand like it normally does. Add some significant rainfall and now there's standing water you could drown in.

There doesn't need to be a direct connection to the ocean as that is not how the geology would work. And of course during the winter the ground would be less permeable and you won't see the tidal effect in the same way.

But let's leave that aside, as I just posted links to some photos showing some water at the sites. I'm not talking Biblical floods here, just enough water for a unfortunate girl to aspirate some water and choke.

However you do raise some great points. Where do you think she entered the marsh? It looked to me that behind Hackett's house you could conceivably enter. Is that where you believe she entered? Obviously conjecture on my part. Still pretty thick growth and I think an important clue to her state of mind.
 
In the first photo, the water is ground water that was squeezed out by the vehicle that was used to search the area. In the second photo, the person in the rear of the scene is standing probably 18" higher in elevation than the person in the foreground. they are on the sloping bank that leads up to the parkway. that small puddle tells me it rained hard recently.
Where did SG enter? I can't be sure but always imagined it would have been near the bend in anchor way where BB lives. That's the last place she was seen ringing a doorbell. A somewhat straight line between there and where her body was found goes by where her possessions where found.
 
Where did SG enter? I can't be sure but always imagined it would have been near the bend in anchor way where BB lives. That's the last place she was seen ringing a doorbell. A somewhat straight line between there and where her body was found goes by where her possessions where found.

Makes sense. Thanks!
 
Mcme, you mention you wouldn't go into the marsh. Putting this whole case aside for a moment, imagine it never happened.....what time of person would go into the marsh? It sounds like the same type of person who would go into the bramble along OP. Can you think of anyone you've ever seen in Oak Beach going to areas like the marsh....or people who you've seen in the bramble? It takes certain kind of person to brave the ticks, fleas, bugs, poison ivy, sharp brushes and ****...i would imagine...I think that really narrows down the suspect pool. A nerdy computer hacker from queens probably isn't going to be comfortable with this terrain, it says to me the killer is def someone experienced with this type of environment and someone who likely works in nature/landscaping/state parks/etc
 
Good point LL6. I also don't think it would be a man with one leg and a heart defibrillator.

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Could be though, I don't know much about Hackett's hobbies but for all we know he could not mind getting down and dirty in the bramble. He doens't appear to be to debilitated by his handicap
 
I thought th emost interesting thing about Hackett was that he was possibly involved in planting trees along OP which according to Truth spider were planted near the bodies
 
He doesn't seem to be debilitated by normal activity, but with his limitations and the physical exertion necessary to get through that brush, it's unlikely. He doesn't seem built for too extreme physical activity and his heart makes it more unlikely. Impossible? No. Unlikely? Very much so.

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Maybe but he's a big guy. I wonder how active he is...does he hike? I wish mcme had more info for us, I thought an OB rez would privy to all kinds of **** we dont know about
 
There's no doubt in my mind that she wasn't in her right mind that morning. I can't speak to her schizophrenia but she was said to have been bi-polar. My mind hasn't changed with the events of late, I still think she freaked for no good reason and ran off and either died of natural causes or exposure to the elements. I'd bet my house on it. Obviously no murder there, much less by this SK, but a giant red herring that's muddied the waters going on six years now.

Her story might help sell books and movies and advertising but its not getting us one step closer to finding the killer.

I flip back and forth from believing the same person murdered her to she died on her own, accidentally. I think it's just once of those odd coincidences that she went missing and the other girls ended up being discovered. A divine intervention of sorts. I don't think anyone who was in OB that night had any connections to the GB4 or any of the other victims.

I also think the GB four killer is different than the rest and I really feel alone in that thought. This killer is ritualistic. I feel those four and the way they died and were found is very different from the rest. I don't know why I feel it. I just do. I think the side of OP was just ideal real estate (as is Manorville woods aka the Pine Barrens) for dumping bodies just as the Hudson River is.
 
Why are you being so vague with your responses. ....why the grandstanding about being in a book ......then stating the book is so flawed.....if we knew who you were in the book we might be able to sleuth that your contribution was the flawed bit....but alas...we dont know and only have your written word to go by.........I hope Rachel and Josh are all over this..

This thread is about murdered victims...and I am sorry if this post offends you .....but all I have witnessed in the last week is a profile.....a username sprouting this and that, claiming some close association to the family of the Gilberts.....with nothing....no evidence...no links...nothing to show any real association at all to the Gilberts.........making highly speculative claims of phone spoofing and the like....

Almost teasing posters with information without links.......posters that have been here for years.....I hardly think that is fair

I am in total shock as to what has happened to Mari...she is real...was real...along with Shannan...and the others...their not part of some game..

.and then this. .....I don't mind saying this either....these are real people .....not a game....not a platform for grandstanding to have your 5 seconds of fame.

Some of us have been here for years on this case...... either you put out and provide links....or you stop antagonizing members by stating facts without evidence......

As if Hackett would have been able to summon a drone.....please.

If Diaz is correct it would have been something readily available and already in the air.

This shouldn't be a contentious point.





Napping??

I take this case too seriously to make jest.

She'd have been unconscious.

If you examine the tides for the night in question, you will see she would have entered the marsh close to low tide. At high tide the water would have been high enough to drown someone that was on their back and unconscious.

Again, this should not be a contentious point. I am not saying that this is definitely what happened; simply that you cannot deduce from her remains being found face up that she was not a drowning victim. You just can't unless you ignore the tides.

Why make a complex and puzzling case even more complicated than necessary? Keep in mind that this all happened before the marsh's drainage system was addressed and the marsh drained.

Just want to add to this about the tides. The marsh area is much like a bay. It's not so much how high the water is but how deep the marsh floor is. Water is going to settle into every nook and cranny yet still appear flat on top. Many things could've gotten her. Shannon could've sunk into the muddy floor, got stuck and panicked. She could've fell in an area where the water was slightly deeper because there was a dip in the ground. The land in the marsh is by no means even. It's very possible she could've drown face up, even in low tide, depending on where she was and how far into the marsh she was.
 
The phones thing always bothered me. Why would he tell them to leave their phones behind? I would think this would be a huge red flag for these girls, especially with the promise of more money than normal and how would it benefit LISK? You'd think he would want the phones so it would destroy any evidence of their communication.
 
Just want to add to this about the tides. The marsh area is much like a bay. It's not so much how high the water is but how deep the marsh floor is. Water is going to settle into every nook and cranny yet still appear flat on top. Many things could've gotten her. Shannon could've sunk into the muddy floor, got stuck and panicked. She could've fell in an area where the water was slightly deeper because there was a dip in the ground. The land in the marsh is by no means even. It's very possible she could've drown face up, even in low tide, depending on where she was and how far into the marsh she was.

Bingo. This is why we talk. One person throws out an idea, the next adds to it. Thanks!

The issue is the water table as the tides ebb and flow. I think you have nailed it .
 
The phones thing always bothered me. Why would he tell them to leave their phones behind? I would think this would be a huge red flag for these girls, especially with the promise of more money than normal and how would it benefit LISK? You'd think he would want the phones so it would destroy any evidence of their communication.
That was a rumor. Maureen, Melissa, and Megan had their phones with them. Megans mom use to be here. She believes her daughter had her phone with her. Someone kept calling her job. Her co-workers took the calls. The person was pretending to be NYPD. The person said he wanted Lorraines cell phone number. Lorraine reported this to the SCPD. Lorraine pointed out that her daughter went missing from a hotel on LI. The NYPD was never on her daughters case. I believe she said the calls continued until the bodies were found. Added note. Bodies found 500 feet apart? Another rumor.
 
Of course, it's not money here - it's the PROMISE of money. Johns lie and the G4 knew it. Just a telephone offer of $1500 wouldn't cause these four to change their normal safety procedures.
I disagree. That amt of money is for the whole night. At his place. Not a hotel room that was rented.
 
That was a rumor. Maureen, Melissa, and Megan had their phones with them. Megans mom use to be here. She believes her daughter had her phone with her. Someone kept calling her job. Her co-workers took the calls. The person was pretending to be NYPD. The person said he wanted Lorraines cell phone number. Lorraine reported this to the SCPD. Lorraine pointed out that her daughter went missing from a hotel on LI. The NYPD was never on her daughters case. I believe she said the calls continued until the bodies were found. Added note. Bodies found 500 feet apart? Another rumor.

I thought Lorraine supposedly only received one "mysterious" call at her work (and she wasn't there to answer it).... I could be wrong.

And, here's a post with news reports (quoting Lorraine Ela) regarding MW's cell phone being found in the hotel room;

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?134780-Victim-Megan-Waterman&p=10856178#post10856178

Maybe LE told Ela they found MW's phone... maybe MW had two phones... IDK.
 
That was a rumor. Maureen, Melissa, and Megan had their phones with them. Megans mom use to be here. She believes her daughter had her phone with her. Someone kept calling her job. Her co-workers took the calls. The person was pretending to be NYPD. The person said he wanted Lorraines cell phone number. Lorraine reported this to the SCPD. Lorraine pointed out that her daughter went missing from a hotel on LI. The NYPD was never on her daughters case. I believe she said the calls continued until the bodies were found. Added note. Bodies found 500 feet apart? Another rumor.
SCPD was on Megan's case when she was missing.
They sent detectives up to Maine on a regular basis.
The detectives were searching and searching for Megan like you don't know.

The one that called LW at work was Akeem. She knows it was him and was playing games with the media for attention. THAT information that it was LISk has been inaccurate and not correct.
Akeem was NOT at the location that MW was - when she left the Express Inn.

But have no doubt, SCPD had a task force and detectives assigned to it to search for Megan. It was a BIG DEAL,
it just has not gotten to YOU (the public) because SCPD is tightly sealed on this case. I know the Commanding Officer of all the
detectives on Megan's case and it WAS NOT BURKE, believe me. I was at a meeting with him last year. He's a really nice guy
and is in sex trafficking world. Now that it's a few years later, he told me a lot of things about Megan's case. And why did he talk
to me? Because I told him that I was the one who put Akeem in prison when I went to Federal Court in Brooklyn to seek the maximum
for Akeem and I succeeded. He was really happy to hear about the whole story of how I went to court and how I put Akeem away
for BEYOND the maximum sentence (thanks to the Judge.)

But believe me when I tell you, SCPD was aggressively looking for Megan.
 
Regarding phone calls:

1) A call to Melissa's phone came from Best Western. Robert Blake (Cruz's pal pimp) had connections to that Best Western

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?134780-Victim-Megan-Waterman&p=7781010#post7781010

2) A call was placed from Cruz's phone to Megan just before she walked out of her room @ 1:30a

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?134780-Victim-Megan-Waterman&p=8340461#post8340461

3) Degrees of separation between pimps (from Jessica Taylors' pimp-KWhite to ACruz)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?134780-Victim-Megan-Waterman&p=7790900#post7790900


Cruz knew where Megan was going/who she was seeing at 1:30a
 
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